Eric's Charm PTS at Newbury :(

minesadouble said:
Am not being facetious here - what exactly is a 'killer auction'??

I'm very much pro-racing and I do think the majority enjoy it. Our own horses, ranging from a 13.2 NF to a TB ex racer love nothing better than a real good gallop, especially when out in company and they all get competitive with one another. The principle is surely the same? Yes, the sport is high risk but it is not the only high risk equestrian sport.

We risk our horses every time we turn them out in the field or hack them out on the road - esecially the latter, but we still do it.

I've had a few ex-racers, my eldest daughter currently has one, her first horse since coming off ponies, and I think it is testament to the way they are treated in racing that without fail mine have all had a real trust in people and genuine affection for them. We all know horses have long memories and if these horses had been abused they would not trust and enjoy the company of humans the way they do.

If you are a horse lover it is sometimes difficult to reconcile the risk of serious injury with the pleasure of watching an equine athlete do what it was bred to do. But how can anyone watch the likes of veteran chaser Monet's Garden flying fences from outside the wings with a look of real sheer joy on his face and say that is cruel or abusive to the horse?? Using this horse as an example also proves that not all owners are heartless and money orientaed - his owner's must have spent a fortune fighting for this horse's life (initially against veterinary advice) not so that he could make it back onto the track but in order for him to enjoy a hopefully long and pleasurable retirement.

There is good and bad in every horse sport.
Click to expand...

1. A killer auction is one which is frequented by killer buyers.

2. It is the highest risk equine sport!!

3. Sending them hurtling over perilous obstacles from a gallop is downright cruel. As is racing them at 2-years-old. Fatalities/injuries are not accidents. They are inevitabilities!!

4. Owners like those are incredibly rare. However, his infection was a direct result of racing.
 
Overtoyou how can you say Monet Gardens infection was a direct result of racing. What are you basing this on, have you spoken to the vet directly?

I think you in your misguided way are just making things up for effect and have no basis in fact.

Why dont you post on the Racing Post site forum and see how you will be received and Erics Charm is still headline news on there.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Overtoyou how can you say Monet Gardens infection was a direct result of racing. What are you basing this on, have you spoken to the vet directly?

I think you in your misguided way are just making things up for effect and have no basis in fact.

Why dont you post on the Racing Post site forum and see how you will be received and Erics Charm is still headline news on there.
Click to expand...

It says on H&H news that the infection was the result of an abscess he picked up during (or just after) a race. There is NOTHING misguided about ANY of my comments. It is FACT that a horse's skeletal system and joints have not finished developing when they are put into training and raced at break-neck speeds. That making them jump from a flat out gallop WILL inevitably result in injury and death. And I would jolly well hope that Eric's Charm's death would still be receiving a mention since he was only killed yesterday!! Or is a horse being remembered the day after he/she was killed a big thing in racing? Why don't you go onto an anti-racing site. We will see how well you are received.
 
Oh i was hoping beyond hope that the great that fell was ok (although didn't look good when he was just so still), he seemed to move just as the camera moved away but I guess this was maybe just spasms? Does anyone know what happened? i assume a broken neck/back although the fall itself didn't look particularly bad in iself.

I too am one of those who watches racing and although i love it i hate the thought of a horse getting injured.

I have to say to the person set against, while i do agree that the horses are started far too young (and maybe this should be changed) and there is far too much wastage of perfectly healthy horses, I do not think racing is really any worse than any other equstrian sport and in my experience race horses actually have a pretty decent life (certainly jump racers anyway) and have a heck of a lot of turnout and 'horse time'. Plus, when a horse like Monets Garden is still racing and winning in his teens you can't reall say they don't enjoy it surely? At that age they are more than capable of letting people know they don't want to do something! Do event horses hate what they do too??

Should we ride at all?? As far as the injury to Monets Garden - yes it was as a result of racing but the same injury can and does happen to horses out in fields or who are just hacked out. Believe me, after working in horse insurance for many years, the horrific injuries and illnesses general riding horses suffer are often much worse than how a racehorse may meet its end. At least, as noted, vets are there straight away and the horse does not suffer.

It'e certainly not nice, in an ideal world no horse would be injured but sadly that is not reality.
 
The spasms are involuntary and occur as a result of a broken neck (not sure if broken back does the same thing). As far as I am aware the horse is already dead at that point and knows nothing about it :(

Here's hoping for a successful Cheltenham with all horses and jockeys coming back safely :)
 
Over2You said:
It says on H&H news that the infection was the result of an abscess he picked up during (or just after) a race. There is NOTHING misguided about ANY of my comments. It is FACT that a horse's skeletal system and joints have not finished developing when they are put into training and raced at break-neck speeds. That making them jump from a flat out gallop WILL inevitably result in injury and death. And I would jolly well hope that Eric's Charm's death would still be receiving a mention since he was only killed yesterday!! Or is a horse being remembered the day after he/she was killed a big thing in racing? Why don't you go onto an anti-racing site. We will see how well you are received.
Click to expand...

Horses get abscesses all the time! Hardly a phenomenon attributable to racing only:rolleyes:
 
Such a sad loss of a lovely horse and sadder still that this tribute thread has deacended into people claiming that racing is cruel, the horses have no life and hate it etc. To those people I invite you to our yard...where the horses are treasured, where 6 weeks on myself and oh still get teary about the loss of one of our lovely horses when he spooked standing in the yard, tripped over himself and broke a leg, where our top horse a grade 1 novice hurdler gets in a complete strop if we go off racing and he is not brought! His stablemates are all the same, where all our horses are turned out to be horses every day and go paddling in the sea and loads of hacking...come to us and tell us we are being cruel and are involved in a cruel sport! You don't know what you are talking about. And if that is not enough then you should have been watching the racing at sedgefield today, where the old trooper amjad 14 years young won with his lad on the outside of the rails cheering and running the whole way up to the finish before going on to the gorse and throwing his arms around him after the finish. If any of you had ever been in the yard at the races and seen distraught staff and trainers come back after losing a horse you wouldn't dare be so cold and unfeeling. You say it is the most dangerous sport for horses...did you ever stop to think that it is the only sport that gets such publicity and you actually don't gear about the high amount of career ending injuries in other sports.
 
So so sad. The way he ran on to win just two week's earlier was amazing, you'd never have guessed he was 13. He looked so well in the parade ring too yesterday. Such a shame he never got to enjoy his retirement
 
Over2you - do you really think this is the thread to discuss how you dont like racing, think it is cruel and the people involved are heartless, why not let people pay their respects.

You can always start your own thread to try and cause upset to other users.
 
Allover said:
Over2you - do you really think this is the thread to discuss how you dont like racing, think it is cruel and the people involved are heartless, why not let people pay their respects.

You can always start your own thread to try and cause upset to other users.
Click to expand...

I was NOT the first to express my disgust of the sport. I think it is a perfect thread to air my views. After all Eric's Charm is yet another victim of this so-called sport.

Me causing upset? You pro-racing lot do it all the time. Those of us who HATE seeing horses regularly killed for money and entertainment, are continually upset by how you and others like you, can make up all kinds of excuses to condone the staggering amount of fatalities and horrific injuries.

Yes, horses die in other aspects of life, but nowhere near as often as in racing.
 
Eric's Charms' name had been spread around over the last couple of months. His leg seemed to break on landing (before stumbling). I question that these horses are asked to do TOO MUCH and that their legs are constantly under strain.

Did they really have to enter him in yet another race?
 
Over2You said:
I was NOT the first to express my disgust of the sport. I think it is a perfect thread to air my views. After all Eric's Charm is yet another victim of this so-called sport.

Me causing upset? You pro-racing lot do it all the time. Those of us who HATE seeing horses regularly killed for money and entertainment, are continually upset by how you and others like you, can make up all kinds of excuses to condone the staggering amount of fatalities and horrific injuries.

Yes, horses die in other aspects of life, but nowhere near as often as in racing.
Click to expand...

You know not whether i am pro\anti or somewhere in the middle with my views on racing.

My point is that rather than posting on a thread where people are genuinly upset and shocked by more fatalities on the race track (because they love the sport and all it involves) why not start another thread where you can open a debate into the rights and wrongs of the sport.

All your posts have done is get peoples backs up and it serves no purpose other than to upset other users.
 
Actually Over2you - I would disagree, I am sure many many more horses die in the field (where you take die to be a fatal injury/heart attack etc) than in racing in any one year.
 
glenruby said:
Actually Over2you - I would disagree, I am sure many many more horses die in the field (where you take die to be a fatal injury/heart attack etc) than in racing in any one year.
Click to expand...

You are pretty spot on their. As I mentioned earlier, I saw tonnes of death/serious injury claims working for an insurance company. Our market was general riding horse NOT high valued bloodstock or racers. I would be pretty confident in saying that each day there would have been at least one fatal injury or death claim and that is just one insurer.

It is a sad fact of animal life and because racing is on TV so much we sadly see a lot more of it and it distorts the reality I think. Horse die hunting, team chasing, eventing etc and also out on the roads every single day but that isn't shown on TV.
 
ladyt25 said:
It is a sad fact of animal life and because racing is on TV so much we sadly see a lot more of it and it distorts the reality I think. Horse die hunting, team chasing, eventing etc and also out on the roads every single day but that isn't shown on TV.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree with this.
I am saddened every time I see an accident on a racecourse, but they do not JUST happen there.
This thread was started to pay respects to a much loved and popular racehorse, not to debate the whys and wherefores of the racing industry.
I'm not so naiive to think that this wouldn't have happened, but it is painfully predictable.
 
I just wanted to say, I think some people are missing the point that it is not the raw number of horses that die in racing that is at issue, but the proportion of horses that race, that die whilst racing. You cannot compare the number of horses that die in field accidents to those that die racing, as most horses are turned out, most horses are not race horses. If that makes sense.
 
I guess we just have to admit that everyone is entitled to there opinion. Its similar to vegetarianism. some people dont want to eat animals, some people enjoy eating animals. fine. Some people dont like seeing animals put under pressure, confined long hours, ridden hard, whipped. some people dont see this as a problem.
I think its all about our perception of these things.
I like to believe in a perfect world. Where people and animals live in harmoney. That we do not need to exploit animals for ego or profit, or food. But we do not live in a perfect world, so we are going to have animals exploited, humans exploited, and the earth resources exploited.

I cant change others opinions, so all i can do is show by example. Im happy in the knowlage that i do not get involved with something that i disagree with, either meat eating or racing. And many others. Thats really all i can do.

So i will be happy knowing that maybe i can someday make a change in the world, for people and animals, but for now, all i can do is live the life i feel is best for every thing on the planet.
If someone thinks that exploiting animals, and people, is the best thing for the planet, then thats their choice. As long as they are happy with the choices they make.
 
Whichypoohs said:
Did they really have to enter him in yet another race?
Click to expand...


Tripe. Did you actually look at all of those horses in that race, how well they looked and at how keen they were to get on with their job? They love their job otherwise they would have chucked in the towel a long time ago (they were all veterans in that race) and are/were all kept in training because it is what they love to do. Believe me, trainers and owners know when a horse has had enough; all of those horses in that race were in great condition and raring to go. If he had been a person, I'm pretty sure Eric would have wanted to go as he did, enjoying the thing he loved doing most of all.
 
alliersv1 said:
Sadly this lovely old chap has been PTS this afternoon after blundering on landing and breaking a foreleg in his attempts to stay upright.
I was a real fan of his, and it was a desperately sad thing to see.
RIP old chap :(
Click to expand...

He is one of many, many horses every year, much younger that have had their lives snuffed out at three and four years of age many of whom have had horrifying and agonising deaths. Here are the latest fatalaties. Think its a horrid sport but thats just my personal opinion and don't dislike people for their opinions and views.

http://horsedeathwatch.com/
 
Allover said:
You know not whether i am pro\anti or somewhere in the middle with my views on racing.

My point is that rather than posting on a thread where people are genuinly upset and shocked by more fatalities on the race track (because they love the sport and all it involves) why not start another thread where you can open a debate into the rights and wrongs of the sport.

All your posts have done is get peoples backs up and it serves no purpose other than to upset other users.
Click to expand...

Quite agree.
 
applecart14 said:
He is one of many, many horses every year, much younger that have had their lives snuffed out at three and four years of age many of whom have had horrifying and agonising deaths.......
Click to expand...

I don't mean to upset the apple cart, but in that you are wrong. Massive injuries, such as that sustained by EC, are not "agonising", except perhaps, to humans.

I have witnessed, and dealt with, horses with their heads in a feed bucket, awaiting their humane end, even though they've been standing with a leg which is beyond repair.

I suspect that when in a state of shock, the pain level is actually negligible. For EC, and others, immediate and caring assistance would have been on hand, and correctly administered.

We ALL hate the fatalities, but it's part of jump racing. I have no idea of the correct figures, but I suspect that less than 1% of horses, lie down and die peacefully in their sleep. One or two may die from a heart attack, but the bulk are brought into this world, at the hands of man, and leave it, by a similar route.

Alec.
 
ditto, Alec.
Years ago I found a friend's lovely horse in the field with a shattered leg. I fetched him some hay and stood with him waiting for the vet, and he calmly stood there eating. I gazed into his eyes and saw no fear, no pain. It is so easy to anthropomorphise but horses are NOT like people and do not have the awareness of consequences that we do... they are not screaming and rolling around on the floor like a footballer with a broken leg.
Oh, and having broken my arm competing, I can attest that adrenalin is a wonderful thing... I have the lowest pain threshold on the planet but felt NO pain at all until the doctor pulled it straight (now, that hurt, briefly), and then the pain started in the ambulance about 20 minutes later. Then it was very painful, but at the time, I had no idea I'd even hurt myself.
From what I've witnessed with horses, the adrenalin affects them the same way, if not more so.
 
There are an increasing number of people in this world in all walks of life that feel the need to impose their beliefs on others. They are often ill-informed, always vociferous and make no effort to see the big picture.
These horses are very well cared for, after all the idea is to have them fit and healthy to be able to perform to their optimum. It may not be the way that you would look after a horse but that doesn't mean it is wrong or that the horses aren't loved. On the contrary. There are many leisure horses that have much less knowledgeable care and look far less happy with what life has dealt them.
I, personally, love racing. The majority of horses that take part love it too. If you don't share this opinion that is fine but it doesn't give you the right to ban it any more than people have a right to plant bombs or terrorise opposing cultures.
 
Look around you, there are far far more horses and ponies in the UK living miserable, neglected lives in fields, up to their knees in mud. NZ rugs on 24 / 7 (just what is it with the fashion for NZ rugs with neck covers even in summer?) and that includes the hairies. Or they would be hairy if the rug had not rubbed half of it off, or the coat was matted and crusted from rain rot. Their feet probably trimmed if they are lucky a couple of times a year. Winter food is a rotting round bale of haylage. Water when the owners can be bothered to drag a couple of jerry cans to the field. Their numbers far out weigh the racehorses who sadly end their life on a track, sometimes televised. BUT at least the racehorses life till then is generally a life of care and comfort, good food, medical needs met.
 
RIP Erics Charm.

I am a great fan of NH racing, my boy is an ex NH racer. I can tell you, the yard he came from, he was extremely well looked after. The trainer is quite well known, he only has 35 horses and he knows each horse like the back of his hand. The horses are treated like royalty with the best vet, farrier, grooms and jockeys.
It is horrible when there are fatalities but it can happen anytime, anywhere. Even leaving your horse in the field it can get a fatal injury.

These horses do not race unless they want to. King Johns Castle at last years Grand National proved that!

Have your opinions, share them, but dont try and impose your beliefs on others.
 
When our lad broke his leg he had no pain at all...was shuffling around stable mugging me for polos and apples and was such a bad break that he didnt even swell!
 
applecart14 said:
He is one of many, many horses every year, much younger that have had their lives snuffed out at three and four years of age many of whom have had horrifying and agonising deaths. Here are the latest fatalaties. Think its a horrid sport but thats just my personal opinion and don't dislike people for their opinions and views.

http://horsedeathwatch.com/
Click to expand...

Applecart, you don't honestly believe that do you?:confused:

That really is absolute rubbish......I respect that you don't like racing, I respect the differences of opinion we have on the subject, but I think trying to use an extreme analogy to make your point is a little silly.
 
I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
 
Whichypoohs said:
I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
Click to expand...

oops wrong user name
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top