Eric's Charm PTS at Newbury :(

Whichypoohs said:
I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
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Well put
 
Whichypoohs said:
Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.
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I agree. The day Mill Reef's shattered leg got patched up & he went on to sire a new generation of fast, valuable but fragile horses (and make his connections a load of money in the process) was a sad day for the TB in my view. The racing industry is set up to breed from horses who can run fast but have never proved their resilience and soundness - sometimes they have done quite the opposite and retired as babies through injury. Breeders in other disciplines which allow AI & embryo transfer can at least make a reasonable judgement about the long term soundness of the horses they are breeding from. Whether it's because of tradition or money I don't much care, but in my opinion the racing industry could do a lot more to safeguard the horses they profess to hold so dear. The fact that it doesn't is enough to put me off racing.
 
Whichypoohs said:
I too am disturbed by the "racing industy", especially the breeding of Throughbreds, along with the "wastage" of the majority who just don't make the grade.

Yes the winners are well cared for but what about the others?

Also the chasers of yesteryear didn't have legs that simply snapped. They were big-boned with hooves like buckets but then those horses weren't expected to do it all: they simply jumped, whereas today's chasers have to have speed as well.

No, this is a dirty industry when you take your rose coloured glasses off.
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My boy certainly wasnt a winner, but he was very well looked after as was the other horse we got. i went to the racing yard, all horses very happy, all bloody well looked after.
Why would these trainers risk their reputation but treating their horses badly??
Ok there may be a couple of racing yards who dont look after them well, but look at how many horses are starving, beaten, abandoned all over the country/world.
These horses are treated like royalty compared to the majority of other horses.
 
Kadastorm said:
My boy certainly wasnt a winner, but he was very well looked after as was the other horse we got. i went to the racing yard, all horses very happy, all bloody well looked after.
Why would these trainers risk their reputation but treating their horses badly??
Ok there may be a couple of racing yards who dont look after them well, but look at how many horses are starving, beaten, abandoned all over the country/world.
These horses are treated like royalty compared to the majority of other horses.
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The point the previous poster made was about breeding, not treatment, of racehorses. This post isn't addressing their argument at all.
 
i dont think the anti and pro people are going to comprimise. im not anti or pro, i can see both sides but i do think all the people saying how bad racing is and how awful the horses are treated are blind.
Look out for a few open days to race yards and see their horses and you may well change your mind...

EDIT: Spinal tap, i accidentally forgot to add a bit in it wasnt all aimed at whichypoohs - im new to the forums, i will make mistakes .

with regards to breeding, all horses build are different, they are all bred to be fine. again, the guys we got - not finely built. (im talking NH, flat may be different but NH need to be a bit bigger and is this thread is about a NH horse, im guessing you're all on about that)

And wastage, well, many trainers used to give their horses away (which is how i got mine) but then anti race people gave them a bad name by saying how they 'rescued these poor race horses' and 'how badly treated they are'.

I did think similar of Race yards before i actually knew what they did...after visiting a race yard and talking to my friend who is a jockey, i changed my mind.

You should all go and see them before judging.
 
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It says on H&H news that the infection was the result of an abscess he picked up during (or just after) a race.
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My horse never raced a day in life, but got an abcess - twice.........:o:o
 
Spinal Tap said:
The point the previous poster made was about breeding, not treatment, of racehorses. This post isn't addressing their argument at all.
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Well, if you want to talk about 'wasteful' breeding, you only have to look at the Dartmoor hill ponies... they live a natural life, and yet hundreds of them are going to slaughter. There's good and bad in every industry, and it doesn't pay to generalise things.

It's a real shame that two horses died, regardless of how anyone feels about racing.
 
meandmyself said:
Well, if you want to talk about 'wasteful' breeding, you only have to look at the Dartmoor hill ponies... they live a natural life, and yet hundreds of them are going to slaughter. There's good and bad in every industry, and it doesn't pay to generalise things.

It's a real shame that two horses died, regardless of how anyone feels about racing.
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Exactly my thoughts aswell. As for horses of yester year, I am old enough to remember them in the 60s and 70s. The old fashioned chasers by stallions such as Spartan General, Eboneezer, Jock Scot, Vulgan, I can remember them all. They might have had more bone and feet like buckets, but they were no less vulnerable than the modern day chaser. They broke down and suffered heart attacks just the same, big framed horses are as likely to have a catastrophic injury as the modern day racehorse. Racing is what the racehorse is bred to do, be it in this generation or yester year. I am tired of people banging on about racing, it is one of the most exhillerating magnificent sport. Without it we would have no TBs and the world would be full of cobs and bluddy warmbloods! That do circles or trek and people like me wouldnt have lovely exracers!
 
TicTac said:
Second that opinion, except that I would definitely not come back as a race horse. I'd come back as a cat!
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Wow, yeah, I'd LOVE to be one of those cats, kept indoors all its life, fed dried food and never allowed to indulge its natural instincts in chasing birds or mice, because "its cruel". Or how about a dog, kept in a tiny city centre house, walked on concrete pavements for 10 minutes twice a day and yelled at and yanked about for having too much energy?

I sincerely doubt that any of the detractors of racing have ever actually mucked out, groomed or ridden a racehorse in their lives.

RIP Eric's Charm.
 
I have followed racing for over 40 years and can see the good and bad of the sport. With the recent sad death of someone involved in Team Chasing I read that 2 horses were also killed at the same event. I was wondering why Racing gets such a bad press and yet Team Chasing seems to escape this? Admittedly I know very little about the sport. I went to watch Team Chasing once, OMG that was enough for me thank you, complete carnage and 1 horse killed, 2 others I doubt would have competed again as had done tendons. Perhaps because amatuers are involved it's ok? At least under rules the jockies do have to be of a standard whereby they are deemed competant to compete, from the standard of riding I witnessed at Team Chasing this is not the case? I maybe wrong however.
 
Megan_T said:
Yes - I heard they electrocuted them on purpose - you know, just for a laugh.

Get a grip.
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What about the other horse (Kilmurry) who died while racing on the same day as the ones who were electrocuted. What about Eric's Charm and Karky Schultz (both dying on the 5th of March)? Their deaths did NOT make headline news. The only reason Fenix Two and Marching Song made it into the headlines was the bizarreness in which they died. Horses dying in racing is far too commonplace to be big news. I also find it incredibly hypocritical that Racing UK would remove the electrocution footage from its site, but not remove videos of horses dying on the track.

I firmly stand by my statement regarding the industry being peeved that it had not gotten their money's worth out of Fenix Two and Marching Song. The former had never been raced and the other had only been raced 8-times. Yep - bleak day indeed when you are not making money out of your investments.
 
A mate of mine bought an ex racer who only raced once... ZOMG, how awful for the industry...

I've been racing. I've watched a horse try to keep up with his mates as his leg, snapped by the knee, flapped against him and every step he crumpled onto the stump. I watched as he was wrestled to the ground and screens were put up so he could be shot with dignity. I often wonder how many anti racers have actually seen something like that for real.

I admit, I am put off ever going racing again.

However, for seeing that, I am not fooled by animal rights groups into thinking these horses are uncared for. If I told you that MaClaren left their F1 racing cars in leaking garages with no services all year between seasons, you'd know I was talking rubbish, how can you win with a car no one has looked after?

The same applies to racehorses. The aim of the game is to win. You cannot win if your horse is abused, fed wrong, kept unhappy and does not want to race.

Despite my views, I worked for a racing yard for a couple of months and I saw none of the cruelty that is apparently there. All the horses were happy little things who loved their hacks out!

Yes, racing is an industry bred on human greed and an insatiable need for gambling. Yes, horses sometimes die. But don't try and paint a picture of the whole industry being rotten and cruel to try and swing others to support a ban. It's just your twisted fantasy.

And it's all very well saving ex racers from "killer auctions". Who saves the welsh mountain ponies, the dartmoor hill ponies, the new forest ponies, the shetland ponies, the gypsy ponies... I've been at Beeston when the killer buyers were in... Not a racehorse in sight.

But is it really that bad? I mean, cows/sheep/pigs don't get the choice of retirement when they go for "killer auctions" do they.... and horses aren't killed just to spite teenage pony lovers!!!
 
^ So true...
I went to the new forest sales where so many foals, yearlings and obviously older horses went to the meat man.
Our two best welsh cobs came off of the meat lorry, one in foal and had a foal at foot. They were pulled off the lorry just in time.
More native breeds go for meat than race horses...
As i said, most racehorses are treated like royalty.
 
Serenity087 said:
A mate of mine bought an ex racer who only raced once... ZOMG, how awful for the industry...

I've been racing. I've watched a horse try to keep up with his mates as his leg, snapped by the knee, flapped against him and every step he crumpled onto the stump. I watched as he was wrestled to the ground and screens were put up so he could be shot with dignity. I often wonder how many anti racers have actually seen something like that for real.

I admit, I am put off ever going racing again.

However, for seeing that, I am not fooled by animal rights groups into thinking these horses are uncared for. If I told you that MaClaren left their F1 racing cars in leaking garages with no services all year between seasons, you'd know I was talking rubbish, how can you win with a car no one has looked after?

The same applies to racehorses. The aim of the game is to win. You cannot win if your horse is abused, fed wrong, kept unhappy and does not want to race.

Despite my views, I worked for a racing yard for a couple of months and I saw none of the cruelty that is apparently there. All the horses were happy little things who loved their hacks out!

Yes, racing is an industry bred on human greed and an insatiable need for gambling. Yes, horses sometimes die. But don't try and paint a picture of the whole industry being rotten and cruel to try and swing others to support a ban. It's just your twisted fantasy.

And it's all very well saving ex racers from "killer auctions". Who saves the welsh mountain ponies, the dartmoor hill ponies, the new forest ponies, the shetland ponies, the gypsy ponies... I've been at Beeston when the killer buyers were in... Not a racehorse in sight.

But is it really that bad? I mean, cows/sheep/pigs don't get the choice of retirement when they go for "killer auctions" do they.... and horses aren't killed just to spite teenage pony lovers!!!
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What a well balanced reply!

I can't believe this is still rattling on!
Oh well, with Cheltenham round the corner, I'm sure there will be plenty more controversy.
Lets just hope they all come home safe and sound eh?
 
applecart14 said:
Here's your answer
http://horsedeathwatch.com/

I agree. I think it is very sad and very cruel.
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Applecart, you have been posting that link for years in every racing thread that crops up! It's like a morbid fascination!!
Lets get some perspective here shall we? Hows about animal aid do something like list every horse that is killed in the paddock, on the road, out showjumping, out eventing or team chasing etc etc. What about all the horses that get put to sleep through injury caused by all the other sports and hobbies we use them for?
Even better, the best idea would be that people stop concentrating on everything that dies and look more towards the living!!! Every racehorse has an owner, a trainer, a breeder, a work rider, a groom, and a whole list of people who have cared for it in it's life. Do not be niave enough to think that connections do not care if the horse dies.
It's sad, but it's life, and NOBODY wants to see them fall. Please stop being so morbid, these horses are not forgotten I can assure you. I'd be more concerned about the animals that end up neglected and un cared for than those who die quickly.
 
How I agree with this Nikki. Instead of mourning every horse that is injured or dies racing the energy would be better spent on helping the living and retired racehorses to have nice new homes, or campaigning about live horse transport from Russia and Argentina to the slaughterhouses of Italy.
 
nikkiportia said:
Applecart, you have been posting that link for years in every racing thread that crops up! It's like a morbid fascination!!
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Agreed
They are pathetic and ghoulish. I notice that today they were ready with the cameras to catch the first equine fatality at Cheltenham, ready to post it up quick smart.
I bet they were getting worried after two incident free days that nothing was ACTUALLY going to die. Imagine that!
 
alliersv1 said:
Agreed
They are pathetic and ghoulish. I notice that today they were ready with the cameras to catch the first equine fatality at Cheltenham, ready to post it up quick smart.
I bet they were getting worried after two incident free days that nothing was ACTUALLY going to die. Imagine that!
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I couldn't agree more!! It is a grim hobby of theirs. I find it quite sickening for people to be so obsessed with death.
 
nikkiportia said:
I couldn't agree more!! It is a grim hobby of theirs. I find it quite sickening for people to be so obsessed with death.
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They have a very one sided agenda.
Yes, there are bad things about racing, just as there are in all aspects of horse (and other animal) sport, but there are many worse cases of horse abuse going on than in the racing industry.
At the risk of falling into the "obsessed with death" category, I do actually believe that deaths of racehorses should be publicly documented, as we need to know the fates of these animals, but to glorify the deaths in such a way for their own twisted ends is deeply unsavoury.
http://racehorsememories.moonfruit.com (not sure if I am allowed to post a link?)
This website does the same sort of thing, but is populated by racing fans, and horse lovers, who wish to document deaths, and pay tribute to horses that have died whilst in training, but also lists retirements, and has a "where are they now" section, for people to find out about the whereabouts of retired favourites.
I suppose it is the "fluffy" racehorse deathwatch..
 
Thats a much better site! I totally agree that they should not be forgotton, and tribute should be paid, even if it is just their name listed. Thanks for the link, much more tasteful and the way that it should be done.
 
Blimey this has taken me ages to read through ! there seem to be a few anti - horses doing anything that might be remotely enjoyable people on this forum subject ! I assume that they don't keep any animals at all as I guess they would deem that as cruel. I am afraid that me and my horse are adrenalin junkies, best drug in the world and very addictive ! Although adrenalin does have its risks, life would be so boring without it. I suppose when I have to give up riding I could spend more time on the forums and wind people up, the ones who have no idea about horses I mean ! RIP all those brave gallant horses who gave us so much pleasure.
 
nikkiportia said:
Thanks for the link, much more tasteful and the way that it should be done.
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There is nothing 'tasteful' about horses severing tendons, fracturing tendons, having fatal heart attacks or breaking necks, no matter how you dress it up. I am just showing the other side of the coin to those who are a bit naive about racing (as I used to be). There are a large number of deaths on British racecourses every year not including all the horses that die are have to be pts in the name of 'sport' whilst in training before even reaching the race course. And those that are spent by the age of five or six from racing injuries. So lets not get too judgemental about my post please.

And to the poster that said I use this Racehorse deathwatch link everytime there is a racing post, I think I have used it three times in total over about 2 years of posting on this site so lets get things in perspective.

I am entitled to my opinion as is everyone else and this forum is to let people who show an interest in horses express their opinion. Its called freedom of speech and I am proud to be able to express the views that I wish to express even if it does not 'conform' or is 'agreeable' to the majority.

Thank you.
 
kerilli said:
ditto, Alec.
Years ago I found a friend's lovely horse in the field with a shattered leg. I fetched him some hay and stood with him waiting for the vet, and he calmly stood there eating. I gazed into his eyes and saw no fear, no pain. It is so easy to anthropomorphise but horses are NOT like people and do not have the awareness of consequences that we do... they are not screaming and rolling around on the floor like a footballer with a broken leg.
Oh, and having broken my arm competing, I can attest that adrenalin is a wonderful thing... I have the lowest pain threshold on the planet but felt NO pain at all until the doctor pulled it straight (now, that hurt, briefly), and then the pain started in the ambulance about 20 minutes later. Then it was very painful, but at the time, I had no idea I'd even hurt myself.
From what I've witnessed with horses, the adrenalin affects them the same way, if not more so.
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Alec and Kerillia I agree with you that not all broken legs are agonising but some injuries are. My youngster had a complete fracture of his tibia with the bone sticking through the skin but mangaged to have his ears forward and whinnied at me whilst standing patiently for the vet. Adrenalin is a wonderful thing and fortunately kicked in for my horse, but not all horses are so lucky.

I am entitled to my opinion and sorry if it doesn't agree with the rest of you racing people, but that's life.
 
applecart14 said:
I am entitled to my opinion and sorry if it doesn't agree with the rest of you racing people, but that's life.
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You absolutely are entitled to your opinion. That is not in dispute.
My problem is not with you disliking the racing industry. I have a love/hate relationship with it myself as it goes.
My issue is with Animal Aid and the way they sensationalise incidents to promote their own ends. It is the extreme face of animal rights and I don't like it. That is MY opinion, and I am entitled to that too. :)
 
Applecart, I have absolutely no issue with you having an anti racing opinion. Each to their own.
But horses will and do injure themselves fatally everyday. I see in your sig that you are jumping a horse, where is the site which publicly names every single horse which has died due to severed tendons and fractures caused by hobby horses jumping in a school??? How would you feel if somebody pointed that site out to you every time you jumped your horse and enjoyed it?
That is the point I am trying to make.
It is tragic, it is sad, and I can assure you that tears are shed for them. I just think that 'deathwatch' uses these tragic losses to prove a point rather than to honour them, and that is the part which leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Thats all I have to say on the matter. Thanks.
 
nikkiportia said:
Applecart, I have absolutely no issue with you having an anti racing opinion. Each to their own.
But horses will and do injure themselves fatally everyday. I see in your sig that you are jumping a horse, where is the site which publicly names every single horse which has died due to severed tendons and fractures caused by hobby horses jumping in a school??? How would you feel if somebody pointed that site out to you every time you jumped your horse and enjoyed it?
That is the point I am trying to make.
It is tragic, it is sad, and I can assure you that tears are shed for them. I just think that 'deathwatch' uses these tragic losses to prove a point rather than to honour them, and that is the part which leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Thats all I have to say on the matter. Thanks.
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Said far more eloquently than I managed to say!!

Good points, well made.
Stepping away from this too now. Got Cheltenham to watch! ;)
 
Not wanting to upset the 'applecart' but am I correct in assuming that the people that are anti- racing have never worked in racing. Just as anti-hunt supporters have probably never gone hunting ? Is it really about their concern for animal welfare (which I think is unfounded in this case) or a dislike for the people who are involved in what they see as rich peoples sport ?
 
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