ESC & Starch/ WSC & Starch

[holeymoley]

I could hit my head off a wall with this.

I have scrupulously read in to this in the hope to do the best for my horse who is insulin resistant. Three years ago he was on the verge of not making it through laminitis. He thankfully pulled through and had a major diet overhaul. Whilst on box rest I bought him very low sugar timothy hay and soaked it regardless. We moved yard and they could only supply meadow hay with ryegrass which I was instantly cautious about, however proceeded to get it analysed out of interest, which actually showed it to be very low in WSC & starch and ESC & starch. I fed this with no problems, but soaked for an hour each day to remove any dust. Unfortunately 2021 cut is much higher in both WSC & starch and ESC & starch. On speaking to the analysist company(very well known and thought of) they said that actually as my ESC & starch was at 10.2% combined they advised that it would still be fine to feed but to soak for at least 1 hour. The WSC & starch of it was up around 18%-20% (can't remember exactly). I have now read a post on social media from quite a popular nutritionist who claims that you must not go with the ESC & starch but the WSC & starch, in which case my hay is totally unsuitable. In doing my own research over the years, I have read that fructans do not affect the metabolically challenged horse as they are fermented i in the hind gut and therefore do not post a threat. Nutritionist claims that there is no research to support this.

To those that analyse and have metabollically challenged horses, what do you go by? I am normally the type that if it's working then leave well alone but this year my gelding has a slightly larger crest than last year, of which I was blaming the mild Winter for. Nothing has changed in his diet or routine in comparison to last year. I'm now beginning to think is it possibly because of this hay?

 

[HelenBack]

I don't know the answer either but I know that the nutritionist you're speaking of is very well qualified and highly regarded whereas a lot of the companies like Forage Plus and so on are very well intentioned but probably more self-proclaimed experts through their own learning and not necessarily any proper qualifications and understanding of up to date scientific research.

The only thing I think is that she has no self-interest in going against what others say and causing and argument and she does have access to all the latest research and speaks a lot of sense generally. I guess if nothing else then going by the WSC content is the more cautious one and therefore safer, although much more difficult because it's really hard ot find low WSC hay!

 

[Highmileagecob]

I share your pain. My cob was diagnosed as EMS around ten years ago, and I struggled to make sense of the feeding arrangements. Then I was asked to train as a diabetic first aider at work, and suddenly the condition made sense - it is basically type 2 diabetes. My feeding regime changed to stop large intakes of forage in a relatively short time. He received everything double netted when in at night. He lived in a grazing muzzle 24/7 (Tough 1 Easy Breathe) and I tried to replicate trickle feeding as far as possible. He is now 27 and has been fine on this routine. His high fibre bucket feeds have had to stop this year, as faecal water syndrome became a problem, but replacing with a small bran mash and a handful of Alfa A has sorted things out. Not looking forward to 24 hour turnout this year though, as his teeth now can't cope with a grazing muzzle.
I do wonder whether the term insulin resistant is a bit misleading? The horse seems to release enough insulin to cope with trickle feeding, and research has shown that if a 'resistant' horse is given extra insulin it immediately goes into laminitis. It would seem logical to look at the high levels of blood sugar/insulin together as the issue, and focus on keeping the blood sugar level constant. Be aware that reduced exercise, or being turned away for the winter does seem to make things worse.
Good luck, I hope you manage to find a routine that works for you.

 

[holeymoley]

I share your pain. My cob was diagnosed as EMS around ten years ago, and I struggled to make sense of the feeding arrangements. Then I was asked to train as a diabetic first aider at work, and suddenly the condition made sense - it is basically type 2 diabetes. My feeding regime changed to stop large intakes of forage in a relatively short time. He received everything double netted when in at night. He lived in a grazing muzzle 24/7 (Tough 1 Easy Breathe) and I tried to replicate trickle feeding as far as possible. He is now 27 and has been fine on this routine. His high fibre bucket feeds have had to stop this year, as faecal water syndrome became a problem, but replacing with a small bran mash and a handful of Alfa A has sorted things out. Not looking forward to 24 hour turnout this year though, as his teeth now can't cope with a grazing muzzle.
I do wonder whether the term insulin resistant is a bit misleading? The horse seems to release enough insulin to cope with trickle feeding, and research has shown that if a 'resistant' horse is given extra insulin it immediately goes into laminitis. It would seem logical to look at the high levels of blood sugar/insulin together as the issue, and focus on keeping the blood sugar level constant. Be aware that reduced exercise, or being turned away for the winter does seem to make things worse.
Good luck, I hope you manage to find a routine that works for you.

Hello, thank you for your experience. It really is something else to manage! He was diagnosed 3 years ago, we have a routine that thankfully works well but I was querying this conflicting advise from a nutritionist. Mine is also in a grazing muzzle throughout the day and stabled at night with soaked hay. Interesting you mention feacal water syndrome as I think I replied to you on another thread about that, I reckon it's something to do with the high fibre diet. Although that's what they're designed to eat...!

 

[Highmileagecob]

There is a webpage 'www.ecir.groups.io WSC versus ESC' that explains the basic thinking behind each measurement, but logically, I think it is difficult to differentiate. Horses are fed dry grass in one form or another. My thinking is that there are so many factors that could alter the sugar content - type of grass, time of year when cut, length of cut, that surely the horses' hindgut is designed to digest the forage.
A horse is said to be insulin resistant when high levels of insulin are detected - why does the horse have a high level? Insulin is released in response to sugar levels in the blood - I haven't seen any mention of sugar levels being measured unless a glucose tolerance test is being performed, and I do wonder if research is missing something. It has been proved that giving extra insulin sends them straight in to laminitis, so in simple terms reducing high blood sugar is the goal. Your routine sounds very similar to mine, and I wish you every success.
One thing I have noticed that he throws a hoof abscess or two when the good grass comes through in spring, again this is circulatory changes causing a mild, usually un-noticable laminitis, and the resulting separation filling with gunk.