Escaped stallion

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ihatework said:
What is the actual issue? Is your fencing solid? If not it should be anyway. You can heighten or inset some electric to keep her of the adjacent boundary. Or is it that your mare is flirty/distracted/trying to get in with the colts?
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The colts’ fence is flimsy/ broken/ non-existent -
They said to me you can’t turn your mare out in that field (on our farm) because my colts are in the adjacent field (on tenant’s farm).
They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.
I kind of feel that you shouldn’t turn your horse out into a field that you expect it to be able to escape from & then cause a problem.
 
WrongLeg said:
The colts’ fence is flimsy/ broken/ non-existent -
They said to me you can’t turn your mare out in that field (on our farm) because my colts are in the adjacent field (on tenant’s farm).
They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.
I kind of feel that you shouldn’t turn your horse out into a field that you expect it to be able to escape from & then cause a problem.
Click to expand...


Who owns the fence?

Irrespective of who owns the fence, if they won't repair it so your mare can graze safely in that field, then you are going to have to.

This dispute happens with livestock of all sorts often in the country. I spent a lot of time and money keeping other people's animals off my land in the past.

They can't, of course, stop you riding your mare down a road and it will be their fault if the colts escape. Tell them you are going to and that if they don't want their colts damaged they must improve the roadside fence to stop them being hit by cars on the road.

ETA they have a right to graze their horses right up to the fence. Personally I wouldn't want a mare messing with colts over a fence, so I would be putting up a secondary fence to keep her away from them anyway.
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WrongLeg said:
The colts’ fence is flimsy/ broken/ non-existent -
They said to me you can’t turn your mare out in that field (on our farm) because my colts are in the adjacent field (on tenant’s farm).
They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.
I kind of feel that you shouldn’t turn your horse out into a field that you expect it to be able to escape from & then cause a problem.
Click to expand...

I agree.
You need to speak to them/landowner to resolve, you shouldn’t be dictated to about what you do with your own land. BUT you should have your decent own boundary fence too
 
Sounds like the farm next door to me. Apparently they don't 'own' the boundary fences, and it is the adjoining land owners who have let their fences fall into disrepair. In over twenty years, I have never known them repair a fence, and they complain if their horses escape! Get hold of some Heras panels, and ask a builder to show you how to stake them down so they cannot be tipped over.
 
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ycbm said:
Who owns the fence?

Irrespective of who owns the fence, if they won't repair it so your mare can graze safely in that field, then you are going to have to.

This dispute happens with livestock of all sorts often in the country. I spent a lot of time and money keeping other people's animals off my land in the past.

They can't, of course, stop you riding your mare down a road and it will be their fault if the colts escape. Tell them you are going to and that if they don't want their colts damaged they must improve the roadside fence to stop them being hit by cars on the road.

ETA they have a right to graze their horses right up to the fence. Personally I wouldn't want a mare messing with colts over a fence, so I would be putting up a secondary fence to keep her away from them anyway.
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Single track road.

Tennant owns the colt’s fence. The posts have been chewed, prob. because they have no mineral block.

Legally, I think we all have ‘a right’ here to graze our stock on the roadside - not sure if it’s the the crofter/ tenants right or our right next to the colt’s field - probably a mixture.
Practically, I would not want to graze horses outside the fence because of the cattle grids.
 
WrongLeg said:
The colts’ fence is flimsy/ broken/ non-existent -
They said to me you can’t turn your mare out in that field (on our farm) because my colts are in the adjacent field (on tenant’s farm).
They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.
I kind of feel that you shouldn’t turn your horse out into a field that you expect it to be able to escape from & then cause a problem.
Click to expand...
I’d be VERY concerned about riding my mare past such a situation!

Should the colts escape onto the road, you will be in personal danger, particularly if there are cattle grids across the highway - all of the horses will be excited, could easily careen straight into them, broken legs all round.

Re the adjoining boundary where you want to graze, if you can solidly fix Heras fence, with a line of visible electric c. 2 yards clear either side, that would do it and certainly cover your own legal liability. Should you have to? No, but would be far safer to, peace of mind is worth a lot.

Legally, you have to fence against your OWN stock, and are liable for any damage they do.
However, legal action is subsequent, takes ages, and actually receiving compensation not always easy.

If your mare grazes any field alongside the road where these colts might escape to, you’d be safest to assume that at some point this will happen, and take action there, too.

‘Ideally’ they will escape a few times, and cause sufficient nuisance on the highway that the owners are forced to take action by the authorities.

Re your being put in fear and prevented from using this public road, you need legal advice. If a member of NFU, CLA or BHS Gold, they should be able to point you appropriately.
Good luck, keep safe and hope things resolve.
 
WrongLeg said:
I

Single track road.

Tennant owns the colt’s fence. The posts have been chewed, prob. because they have no mineral block.

Legally, I think we all have ‘a right’ here to graze our stock on the roadside - not sure if it’s the the crofter/ tenants right or our right next to the colt’s field - probably a mixture.
Practically, I would not want to graze horses outside the fence because of the cattle grids.
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Who mentioned grazing the verges? You've quoted d me, but I didn't.

The tenant can't own the fence but you need to know whether they or the landlord have the responsibility for repairing them and speak to them.
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cauda equina said:
Exactly - you fence to keep your own stock in, not someone else's out
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My farmer neighbour whose fencing is legendary in its rubbishness, once said to me i had to fence to keep his cows out 🙈

He turns out stallion and colts in paddocks adjoining a bridlepath, and adjacent to his own fillies, with fencing my girls would laugh at and step over but none of his ponies hardly ever get out .
 
tda said:
My farmer neighbour whose fencing is legendary in its rubbishness, once said to me i had to fence to keep his cows out 🙈

He turns out stallion and colts in paddocks adjoining a bridlepath, and adjacent to his own fillies, with fencing my girls would laugh at and step over but none of his ponies hardly ever get out .
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Well, he is wrong, and if ANY of his stock get out, he is fully liable.
If his livestock stay behind the barrier and on his land, no problem.
If there’s a right of way through his land and livestock.....he needs to consider how appropriate the particular stock are given the type of user, and take it from there.
Increasingly advice from farming organisations and insurers is to corridor users away from livestock where possible.
 
WrongLeg said:
The colts’ fence is flimsy/ broken/ non-existent -
They said to me you can’t turn your mare out in that field (on our farm) because my colts are in the adjacent field (on tenant’s farm).
They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.
I kind of feel that you shouldn’t turn your horse out into a field that you expect it to be able to escape from & then cause a problem.
Click to expand...
‘They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.....’
And they TOLD you not turn out your mare adjacent, in your own fields?

Would be helpful if you had a witness / recording of any of these interactions, because the first sounds very much like a threat in criminal law - however nicely spoken.

Simply: you cannot ‘advise’ someone not to legitimately use a public route because your own animal might imperil that person while on that public route - whether it’s guard dogs, a flock of sheep, or excitable colts.
Take some advice from one of the organisations’ legal helplines, before proceeding.
 
ycbm said:
Who mentioned grazing the verges? You've quoted d me, but I didn't.

The tenant can't own the fence but you need to know whether they or the landlord have the responsibility for repairing them and speak to them.
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The tenancy contract MAY be relevant in a subsequent recovery action by the tenant / owner of colts against a negligent landlord (who failed his contractual duty to maintain suitable fencing),
BUT any damage and upset done or caused by the colts STILL comes back to responsibility of their owner.
The Mirvehdy case law (spelling?) still holds, even where owners have done their level best to fence stock in.
 
Exasperated said:
The tenancy contract MAY be relevant in a subsequent recovery action by the tenant / owner of colts against a negligent landlord (who failed his contractual duty to maintain suitable fencing),
BUT any damage and upset done or caused by the colts STILL comes back to responsibility of their owner.
The Mirvehdy case law (spelling?) still holds, even where owners have done their level best to fence stock in.
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This is why public liability insurance is NECESSARY!!!!
And why so bloody expensive.
 
94lunagem said:
I don’t insure my companion ponies for vets bills so just have a public liability policy for each (as well as public liability on my yard/home policy). For the horse policies, I pay less than £100 a year for both. Which I’ve always felt is reasonable.
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Probably so, we have a lot of livestock and some land with p.f.paths, so rather different.
 
ycbm said:
Who mentioned grazing the verges? You've quoted d me, but I didn't.

The tenant can't own the fence but you need to know whether they or the landlord have the responsibility for repairing them and speak to them.
.
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Slightly different to normal lease here - Tennant farms/ Crofter’s have ‘crofter’s rights’ that date back to a time before wire or fencing was invented.
The Crofter is leasing his field out to the colts.
 
Exasperated said:
‘They are concerned about the colts jumping out if I ride my mare down the public road.....’
And they TOLD you not turn out your mare adjacent, in your own fields?

Would be helpful if you had a witness / recording of any of these interactions, because the first sounds very much like a threat in criminal law - however nicely spoken.

Simply: you cannot ‘advise’ someone not to legitimately use a public route because your own animal might imperil that person while on that public route - whether it’s guard dogs, a flock of sheep, or excitable colts.
Take some advice from one of the organisations’ legal helplines, before proceeding.
Click to expand...
Communication via text message, so yes.

Some people are a law unto themselves, they really don’t know if they care about such civilities.

I have received threats from these people in the past about being reported to the RSPCA…called a ****ing psyco (sic)

This is why I don’t want to confront the issue.
 
WrongLeg said:
Slightly different to normal lease here - Tennant farms/ Crofter’s have ‘crofter’s rights’ that date back to a time before wire or fencing was invented.
The Crofter is leasing his field out to the colts.
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Just to be completely pedantic here, the first Crofter's Rights bill was passed in 1886, and barbed wire fencing was invented in 1873. Ordinary wire fencing has been around for a lot longer than that, circa 2000 years.

Doesn't help your situation, which sounds rubbish. Can you move your horse somewhere else?

Doing a quick scan of Google results suggests crofters (and their subtenants) have legal responsibilities to maintain the land. The Crofting Act was never a carte blanche to do whatever the hell you like with crofts. Its main aim, as a response to the Highland Clearances, was to make it harder for large landowners to evict people from crofts because they wanted the land for other purposes, and to preserve crofts as grazing/agricultural smallholdings

You may be able to get help from the Crofting Commission if someone is not being responsible. And I'd say having entire colts in a situation where they're likely to jump onto a public road or restricting neighbours' legal use of their land is probably not considered kosher land management.
 
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Exasperated said:
The tenancy contract MAY be relevant in a subsequent recovery action by the tenant / owner of colts against a negligent landlord (who failed his contractual duty to maintain suitable fencing),
BUT any damage and upset done or caused by the colts STILL comes back to responsibility of their owner.
The Mirvehdy case law (spelling?) still holds, even where owners have done their level best to fence stock in.
Click to expand...


Well thank you for mansplaining that Exasperated, 🤣, but the post of mine you quoted referred only to finding out who had responsibility for the repair of the fence in order to know who should be being spoken to about the fence.
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Caol Ila said:
Just to be completely pedantic here, the first Crofter's Rights bill was passed in 1886, and barbed wire fencing was invented in 1873. Ordinary wire fencing has been around for a lot longer than that, circa 2000 years.

Doesn't help your situation, which sounds rubbish. Can you move your horse somewhere else?

Doing a quick scan of Google results suggests crofters (and their subtenants) have legal responsibilities to maintain the land. The Crofting Act was never a carte blanche to do whatever the hell you like with crofts. Its main aim, as a response to the Highland Clearances, was to make it harder for large landowners to evict people from crofts because they wanted the land for other purposes, and to preserve crofts as grazing/agricultural smallholdings

You may be able to get help from the Crofting Commission if someone is not being responsible. And I'd say having entire colts in a situation where they're likely to jump onto a public road or restricting neighbours' legal use of their land is probably not considered kosher land management.
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Thanks for your advice. I really don’t want to have a go at the Crofter - honestly think he is being used by ‘horsey people’ and has no idea what’s going on.

I’m hoping the situation will resolve itself in the next six weeks when the colts go back to their summer grazing. In the meantime, I have moved my mare.

What concerns me most is the person that thinks failing to fence colts so they won’t jump out at the sniff of a mare is advisable or good practice.

This person is proposing to sign a lease on a local trekking centre…
 
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