Eurodressage being sued by Anky/Sjef

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nicolajhall

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Astrid Appels owner of the Eurodressage webzine has today posted an article making public the fact that she is being sued by Any Van Grunsven and Sjef Jansen:

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2010/08/25/anky-van-grunsven-sues-eurodressage

What I find appalling is Sjef's behaviour towards Astrid

A Facebook group and Ipetition has been set up supporting Astrid/Eurodressage' right to free speech and I would encourage anyone who does not wish to see "bully tactics" effectively putting an end to the rights of the Press and individuals to comment on dubious training methods/horse welfare issues in the future:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/supportastridappels/
 
This is the subject of legal action. What does anyone hope that a petition will achieve? And since it is framed as an attack on Anky and Sjef's training methods it looks like ammunition for them if anything.
 
You do know that there are some of us who dont think the sun shines out of AVG dont you....do we not warrant an opinion?
 
Sjeff and Anky can kiss my shiny ring piece!! I hope they dissapear into the sunset and move to Texas and continue with their new found reining!! The Americans are welcome to them!!
 
spaniel said:
You do know that there are some of us who dont think the sun shines out of AVG dont you....do we not warrant an opinion?
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Of course you do [warrant an opinion], what I am trying to get across that the petition with this sort of rhetoric added simply gives 'AVG' [as you put it], more ammunition for their case. Merely making a point, no need for rudeness, although there is plenty of this exhibited later on in the thread.

On the rudeness issue, I find it extraordinary that this sort of language continues under the mods nose whereas a very reasoned discussion under another topic has been pulled three times without any abusive language. Bizarre.................
 
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The trouble with freedom of speech is that you have to have the balls to be held acountable.
If an individual has a problem with what is printed about them they have the right to sue should they wish-if Eurodressage has been objective and done nothing wrong the it will all sort itself out in no time.

Stormy teacup anyone? :p
 
Yunalesca said:
The trouble with freedom of speech is that you have to have the balls to be held acountable.
If an individual has a problem with what is printed about them they have the right to sue should they wish-if Eurodressage has been objective and done nothing wrong the it will all sort itself out in no time.

Stormy teacup anyone? :p
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You're so right about the stormy teacup - and this is not about anything WRITTEN, it is about use of Salinero's picture (not showing Anky) on a report about rollkur....
 
Good luck to Eurodressage...A and S think they are gods...she was so much nicer before she met him, as far as I'm concerned he's ignorant and I've seen him practically ignoring her when he's in a mood.
 
Freedom of speech does NOT allow for unsubstantiated allegations of animal abuse which affect someone's professional reputation. If Eurodressage can back up their allegations, good for them, they will have a very easy time of it, printing the truth is not a problem. If they can't, then they deserve what they get because journalists should not go around printing anything they feel like, they have a duty to substantiate their claims.

I don't see why the personal characters of anyone involved in this are in any way relevant.
 
Booboos said:
Freedom of speech does NOT allow for unsubstantiated allegations of animal abuse which affect someone's professional reputation. If Eurodressage can back up their allegations, good for them, they will have a very easy time of it, printing the truth is not a problem. If they can't, then they deserve what they get because journalists should not go around printing anything they feel like, they have a duty to substantiate their claims.

I don't see why the personal characters of anyone involved in this are in any way relevant.
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The whole point here, and this is why it has been blown out of all proportion, is that it is about the use of a picture in conjunction with a really inoffensive article. No words, accusations or such. No faces shown. Not even a caption naming the horse. The whole thing is massively stupid!
 
I'm sure you can IMAGINE what it would feel like.

Are you referring to my avatar? I have to say I didn't mind him being hollow for the four strides of trot he did, since it was the first time I'd ridden him in the sea. Hey Ho.
 
the_sophies said:
I'm sure you can IMAGINE what it would feel like.

Are you referring to my avatar? I have to say I didn't mind him being hollow for the four strides of trot he did, since it was the first time I'd ridden him in the sea. Hey Ho.
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Not very easily no, seeing as I am not a horse. Can you imagine what echolocation is like for a bat?

Yes, I am. The point is that making a judgement based on a photo without knowing the background or details is unfair and hurtful. This I imagine (there I go, now I can do it!) is what AVG feels about her situation as well. I suspect she would like to say "Hey Ho" as well and get on with riding her horses.
 
Seth said:
Luckily we don't have to only rely on one photo; there's tons of them and a video or 2 too :)
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I don't think AVG denies riding her horses in this manner, I believe she talks openly about it and demonstrates the technique in public (I for one saw her do so at the BD convention), so I am not sure why you think the photos/videos are relevant. The question is, is it harmful? That can't be proven with a photo.
 
Booboos said:
I don't think AVG denies riding her horses in this manner, I believe she talks openly about it and demonstrates the technique in public (I for one saw her do so at the BD convention), so I am not sure why you think the photos/videos are relevant. The question is, is it harmful? That can't be proven with a photo.
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I thought this whole issue was due to a picture of Salinero (where AVG is not even visible) having a caption about being ridden in hyperflexion/rollkur, not whether it is harmful or not.
 
zefragile said:
I thought this whole issue was due to a picture of Salinero (where AVG is not even visible) having a caption about being ridden in hyperflexion/rollkur, not whether it is harmful or not.
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Yes, but it only makes sense in light of the recent FEI distinction between rollkur which they define as prolonged, forcefull and unacceptable because of the harm it causes, on the one hand, and LDR on the other, which is acceptable. Prior to this distinction Anky would openly discuss her training method as using this position (call it what you like) but achieved with impulsion from behind and no inappropriate use of force. Following the distinction, Anky claims to practice the acceptable LDR, not the unacceptable rollkur/hyperflexion.

The photo links Anky's training with the banned FEI practice. To do this, one would need to have evidence that what Anky is doing is forceful and therefore harmful. We'll all get to see what happens in the court case, but I doubt Eurodressage will find it easy to come up with this evidence.

On the use of force even people who do not practice LDR themselves will publicly acknowledge that Anky does not ride forcefully, e.g. Kyra Kyrklund.
 
I really don't get this. If Rollkur is banned, then why the hell has AVG not been punished. The practice is known to damage the connective soft tissues in horses, it makes them unbalanced and cuts off the blood supply to the tongue!! What more evidence do you need that the training method is harmful. I used to like AVG, but not now, not after researching RK.

Good luck Eurodressage!
 
Over2You said:
I really don't get this. If Rollkur is banned, then why the hell has AVG not been punished. The practice is known to damage the connective soft tissues in horses, it makes them unbalanced and cuts off the blood supply to the tongue!! What more evidence do you need that the training method is harmful. I used to like AVG, but not now, not after researching RK.

Good luck Eurodressage!
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See my post above and here it goes again:

The question is what is rollkur and what is banned. The FEI has banned ridding horses in a hyperflexed position for a prolonged period of time and using force. That means that riding horses in a hyperfleved position for a limited period of time and without using force is perfectly fine.

The article in question associated through the use of the photo, Anky with the banned practice with no other evidence that what she does is the allowed practice rather than the banned practice. If this supplementary evidence is available and presented to court Eurodressage has every chance of being acquited, if it does not exist then they may well be in trouble.

On the principle of the thing, no one should support a journalist making a negative and damaging allegation without evidence to back it, because you may be the next person they decide to pick on.

Can you please provide references to the claims that rollkur damages connective tissue and cuts off the blood supply to the tongue? Thanks!
 
To bother suing someone you have to be very sensitive to the issue.

So whether Rolkur is legal / illegal harmful / not harmful the fact that AVG has taken issue with ED over it means they are aware that criticism may be levelled at them. If you are secure about your training practices surely you'd just write off ED views as not worth worrying about rather than suing.

It all seems very small minded to me. Lots of professionals ride in a way to attract criticism at some point but they don't all sue those criticising. If you are in the public eye and very successful you have to expect comment / feedback on your methods whether they be good or bad. Suing for comments you don't like seems rather petty to me.
 
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