European show jumping team

People are being fatiest now
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I often thought that a horse may go better with a lighter rider on, but I don't think it makes any difference. If you go abroad there are some 'big' people out there who produce fanatstic horses. These are big powerful animals and some need a bit of weight on them for control (ie they are not suitable for females but are ok with males on them). Also some of these riders carry injuries so that it is difficult to train as much as they would like. You forget Nick came back from a broken neck and still produced and rode the worlds top horse.

As long as a rider is fit enough to do the job and has the skill and techneque I would rather see this than a horse that has severe bits in there mouth for control. Some of these riders ride incredebly light as they have to distribute the weight.
Geoff rides like a sack of potatoes, but he gets the results.

"Even if they are fit does it not hurt to help the horse out a little more by being slim, trim and nimble."

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say this about 'twinkle toes Tim', next he will be on Strictly dancing
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thevoice and kerilli you are of the 'old fashioned' view (i dont mean that rudely)- that the horse is the athlete, not the rider. Things are changing and about time too. LHS has got it right, even if they are fit it doesnt hurt to help the horse by being slimmer and more nimble. That can make the difference of a few seconds or a fence down, the difference between winning or not.

Sports science is not a waste of money. If it was formula 1 teams wouldnt use it, nor the swimmers, cyclists, runners, and so on. Its just traditionally we have only ever focused on the horse and never viewed the rider as an athlete too. Equestrian sports are decades behind most others in their knowledge of things like the demands of riding and optimising perfomance. If we dont know what is required of the rider how can we improve them? Sports science would answer this.

A horse wouldnt be picked for a team if its lung capacity was poor or it was stiff one way. Horses are kept in a dust free environment, blood tested, food analysed, warmed up, trained, etc. Why not the rider who is 50% of the partnership? Why is it acceptable for riders to drink alcohol, smoke, be relatively stiff and not perfoming at their best.

At elite level you just wouldnt get this in any other sport. You cant just say its acceptable because theres a horse involved i.e. something else to share the work. Going back to formula one, similar to riding in that you have 2 things performing, the car and a driver. You dont see lewis hamilton sporting a beer belly, with a fag hanging out of his mouth on the practice lap do you? As much attention is paid to the driver as the car.

Yes, we need more shows and other ideas but sj in this country needs to change. And embracing sports science and realising that riders need to be supple, fit, corect weight, etc is all part of this.

A new culture of athlete development needs to be introduced so in a few years time we arent relying on picking the best of what we've got, even if they are overweight, not as supple as they could be, etc. Wouldnt it be better if we had riders that were athletic AS WELL AS able to see a stride, experienced, etc?

This isnt the pony club we are talking about. Being a nice man doesnt put a medal around your neck. And you just cant argue that recent teams are doing a good job, because they havnt been on a podium for ages.

Its criticism, yes, but its constructive. It shouldnt be seen as bitchy. British sj needs to be better. And one part of that is to look at how from an athletic point of view; where sadly the riders are more county show beer tent than olympic village.
 
I don't think I have ever heard anyone say this about 'twinkle toes Tim', next he will be on Strictly dancing [ QUOTE ]


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LOL well if its good enough for Richard Dunwoody
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I totally accept what you are saying but I think for me its the impression of how seriously you take yourself and your sport, and whether we like it or not we are probably a bit fattist cos of the perception it brings. I can't recall any fat dressage or event riders, although i'll probably be corrected. Mark Todd is older but looks lean and trim and ready for anything.

Also are falls/injuries not easier to deal with if you are slim.
 
teddyt, i don't think the horse is 50% of the partnership, i think it is more like 90% (or more) as far as the actual physical exertion etc is concerned.
while riders like Geoff and Nick are on some of the best horses in the world, I think they deserve their team places. If they were actually fat (and a certain American lady event rider was allegedly omitted from the team because of this, and had slimmed down a LOT to get back on the team for the last Olympics) it would be a different matter. But I don't think it is fair to be judgemental about their build. if you starved Geoff he still wouldn't be Ben Maher's shape!
i'm not old-fashioned, i agree that the top riders should be fit, sober, etc etc, but as long as they are phenomenal riders, i don't think it matters that they don't look as if they could run a marathon. (btw, i've known plenty of tall skinny people who were horribly unfit but looked the part!)
 
My original comment was tongue in cheek however .......

Jenson Button has a reputation as a 'playboy'. Is this good? These are hard, dangerous sports, they work hard and they play hard and they have every right to do this.

I know a lot of riders and they have there own preperations and fitness regimes and styles like most sports people. How many 50 year olds can do what half these riders do? Could they do this if they were not fit enough?Schmacher couldn't come back because of a 'neck' injury and he has more back up and support then anyone else.

I personally think you ought to go and spend a week with these riders and then see what they do out of the public eye. Alot of them do have very strict regimes and do use 'sports science'. Does it change there shape, weight, size etc NO
OKI DOKI seemed to do OK with the slim Albert Zoer

Think you ought to check out things first before making assumptions.
 
Youve missed my point again. If a rider was athletic build AND experienced, fit, etc he would be a better rider than one who is of a heavier build. Im not saying that being lean is everything but it is a fact of life that if you had a GB shaped person against a lewis hamilton shaped person of the same fitness, LH will be more supple and able to react quicker to certain things because of his shape. Therefore he would get better results. If the LH shaped person was inexperienced then of course GB would be better. Its the whole package we need that is currently unavailable because i believe show jumping is behind the times.

As for how much effort is required of the rider, again, back to formula one. The car is the one making most of the effort to go fast around the track but thats no good unless the driver can help it. Furthermore, taking just a few examples, research has shown that during a course of show jumps riders are at greater than 90% of their maximal heart rate, they reach the anaerobic threshold. one British study found elite dressage riders had a higher lung capacity than show jumpers, despite show jumping requiring more physical effort. At pre-novice eventing level riders have been shown to be working at 64 to 84% of their lung capacity in the show jumping. so yes, rider do need to be fit and they are doing quite alot of work!
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I personally think you ought to go and spend a week with these riders and then see what they do out of the public eye. Think you ought to check out things first before making assumptions.

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Ive spent far more than a week with elite (international/olympic) riders. There is more to getting a team to the Olympics than the farrier, groom, trainer and vet.
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It is more important imo that a rider has very good hands (as Geoff does as you'll see, particularly if you've watched any of his demos) and rides "light" as plenty of solidly built riders do. There have been successful fat dressage riders as well e,g, Lorna Johnstone one of GB's most successful.
 
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It is more important imo that a rider has very good hands (as Geoff does as you'll see, particularly if you've watched any of his demos) and rides "light" as plenty of solidly built riders do. There have been successful fat dressage riders as well e,g, Lorna Johnstone one of GB's most successful.

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Has there ever been a dressage rider with really short legs though *fingers crossed*
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I would totally disagree with this and results worlwide demonstrate this is not the case in showjumping, with riders coming out of retirement and pretty unfit to ride a special horse and winning world cups and championships (Hugo Simon, Thomas Fruhmann to name a couple) with neither of these being the athletic type.

Who is the better rider, Pippa or Will Funnell. Could either do better in each others sport? Who is the fitter and more athletic type (sorry Will). Both have had success and the Derby is the toughest SJ course.

Alois is a massive guy, but he is one of the best speed riders there is and will beat many younger and fitter rider.

Ask Ben how often he goes to the Gym or goes swimming? He is a natural slim person.

I think the person who said 90% of the sport is down to the horse is spot on.

I think you just want a nice SJ pin up calender and not Geoff with his moobs out!!
 
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LOL and whats wrong with that we ask. SJ is bereft of eye candy.
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Oops just thought of one
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Geoff did however manage to complete the Hickstead Derby course, probably the biggest test of fitness a showjumper can ride, if my memeory serves me correctly, he won the Derby!!!!
 
Won it with Cassabachus in 2007, was 3rd in 2006 and 2nd in 2008. And with Rosinus won the Eindhoven Derby this year over an even longer course!
 
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I think you just want a nice SJ pin up calender and not Geoff with his moobs out!!

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Not really, sj'ers arent my type. All those gadgets, orange saddles and jazzy jackets are a bit vulgar for me
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Does anyone know what time the team jumping starts tomorrow? Tickets say 9.30 when you buy online, starting list and results page says 8.30.
Need to know what time to get there for so i don't miss the start, but don't want to get there an hour early either. Was gonna aim to get there at 8am, for 8.30 start, but it'll be along time to wait if it doesn't start till 9.30.
 
The programme and start lists both say 8.30 and the gates open at 7.30 hence I think you can be sure jumping starts at 8.30. It has to in order to allow a lunch break. I think the wrong times on the ticket order page are just another example of a website not properly proofread. I've pointed out errors which they corrected, but did not have the decency to thank me!
 
Not really lacklustre - roughly what I expected. None of ours are speed merchants. Disappointing that Corlato had a fence as well as the water. Pity that Bob's alternatives were not slightly better - nobody wanted to take the risk of the marginally faster route, and I should think there were a few more clears than he wanted. The speed leg should never be too influential - it's there largely to make sure there aren't tied scores from the 2nd & 3rd legs.
 
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