euthanasia of DANGEROUS horse.....INSURANCE INFO NEEDED!!!

T

trigger11

New User
Joined
21 February 2011
Messages
4
Visit site
Hello.
Please help answer the questions I have on this!

I have a horse (owned for 2years) who I think now is dangerous. I am a competent rider (competed to Intermediate BE, Med BD etc and bred my own comp horses) and I have really brought this horse on.

I think he must have had an 'experience' or been bullied/beaten as a youngster (before I had him). I bought him at 6 - he is now 8.

I did a season BE on him in 2010 at 100 level and he had some fab results (placings etc) and some rotational and other falls also (due to napping and lack of concentration).
I've sympathetically worked on him in terms of water, hacking etc, all of which were/are major issues for him and its all marginally improved, but not at the level Id expect after two years.

In warm up areas particularly he had huge problems with other horses coming towards him.
I went to dressage last week and between my Novice and Elem tests (when back in the warm up area) a horse trotted toward him up the long side and he freaked himself out so much about it - he threw himself on the floor with me on top!
This is when I decided that I think this has all got out of hand!

He acts as though the thing bugging him is driving him so crazy that when he actions it, he doesn't consider himself in the consequences let alone his rider. He just has to get away from whatever it is as fast as possible! (horrible and I really feel for him)

I am wondering where I stand with my insurance?
I think putting him to sleep would be kindest/safest for all involved.
He is insured for what I bought him for (which I still 100% owe to my dad, so I have to get this back).
He has a high level policy (for competing at this level) and is with a reputable company (AIMS I think).

What do you have to do in this situation? And do insurance companies pay out for euthanasia and loss of the horse (insured value) for these reasons???
What tests/vet recommendations need to be done and will the insurance company pay for this?

ANY HELP APPRECIATED!!!!
 
Last edited:
well, i would get the vet to give him the once over first as i doubt the insurance company would pay out otherwise. anyone could say there horse is dangerous just to get the money off the insurance company (would have to be callous but it is still a possibility) To me the only thing that springs to mind is possible brain tumor (like that racehorse) but your vet would be the best to advise, also i would ring the insurance and ask how you would stand.
 
sorry to hear of your problems, I dont know if this will help, but I had a mare who was quite well behaved untill she was box rested then turned out in a restricted paddock. She then got upset and broke through the fencing to come back to the yard, this was at flat out gallop. Luckily no one was knocked over. She did this twice before I was able to move her away. I approached my vet with the view to have her PTS as I was concerned that someone may get hurt by her behavior. She was fully insured but I was told by the vet that I would not be able to claim any of her value. I suggest that you contact your insurers to see where you stand. Good luck
 
I'm afraid insurance will only pay out for loss of horse if the horse was PTS for humane reasons, and there are quite tight restrictions on what these reasons are. I would be surprised if your horse fall into this category.

Is he insured for loss of use?
 
this is from petplans terms and conditions

Death from Injury or Illness
What we will pay
The market valueof your horsefollowing:
• Death as a result of an injuryor illnessthat happened or first showed clinical signsduring the policy
year,or
• Euthanasia as a result of an injuryor illnessthat happened or first showed clinical signsduring the
policy yearand which meets the current British Equine Veterinary Association (BEVA) Guidelines for
the Destruction of Horses Under All Risks Mortality Insurance Policy.
What we will not pay
1. Any amount if your horse’scondition does not meet the current British Equine Veterinary Association
(BEVA) Guidelines for the Destruction of Horses Under All Risks Mortality Insurance Policy.
2. More than the sum insured.
3. Any amount if the death or euthanasia of your horsehappened more than 12 monthsafter the date the
injuryhappened or the first clinical signsof the illnesswere noticed,that led to the death or euthanasia.
4. Any amount if yourvetor our vetbelieves the illnessor injuryyour horseis suffering from can be treated.
5. Any amount if yourvetor our vetbelieves it is humane to keep your horsealive.
6. Any amount if the euthanasia of your horseis carried out before youtell usabout youror yourvet’s
decision for euthanasia,unless yourvetbelieves there was no time for youto tell usbecause your horse
was in so much pain that it needed immediate euthanasia.
Click to expand...

so you would have to have the vet agree that the vet was a danger to either itself or others before they would allow you to claim. if for example the horse was dangerous to ride but safe to handle etc the vet can't recommend euthanasia as a option. however if you had LOU you could claim that
 
Thank you both!

I know I need to call the insurance company - just a little dubious, as don't want them to mark is card, or say that they wouldn't renew the insurance when it comes to it due to what Ive said or anything like that!

Really worried about making any moves that could make the situation even worse than it already is :-(

Thanks again!
 
I would speak to your vet, possibly have him assessed by some sort of professional trainer but speak to your insurance company. I think your vet is probably most important as he may need to be checked for a brain tumour or some physical reason for his behaviour. What an awful situation for you to be in, I really hope you can get the resolution you need.
 
BEVA guideline

The British Equine Veterinary Association guidelines state that euthanasia should be carried out if ‘the insured horse sustains an injury or manifests an illness or disease that is so severe as to warrant immediate destruction to relieve incurable and excessive pain and that no other options of treatment are available to that horse at that time’. The insurers should be notified as soon as possible. They will require a veterinary certificate confirming the identity of the horse and the reason why it was destroyed and may also ask for a post mortem.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you - I am really touched by your kind responses - it is a terrible position to be in!
I dont quite know what to do with myself tbh and am quick turning into an emotional wreck over the situation!
Im at my bf's house atm so will check on whether I have LOU on my policy or not tomorrow and let you all know!
Thank you again - its nice to know that people care about the situation, while Im trying to figure the damn situation out!

Im thinking myself its more of a psychological thing rather than a physical thing (would never say never though). However, if the vet found no tumor etc... and as you say he's fine to handle etc but not ride, then I guess I wouldnt have a leg to stand on insurance wise :-(
 
LadyRascasse - Thank you for doing some research on the small print of things! much appreciated. Not exactly what I wanted to see/hear... but better to be armed with knowledge I guess to properly be able to assess the situation further and make some decisions on what to do!
 
Why not send him to someone else for schooling? Many horses don't gel with some riders after all.
Or retire him? He is healthy other than the competition environment? Does he hack? Showjump/Dressage? I know you said the problem this week was in the warm up..
Has he had any vet work up?
 
SusieT said:
Why not send him to someone else for schooling? Many horses don't gel with some riders after all.
Or retire him? He is healthy other than the competition environment? Does he hack? Showjump/Dressage? I know you said the problem this week was in the warm up..
Has he had any vet work up?
Click to expand...

Ditto that ?
 
It's an awful situation to be in. My horse Snip has health issues which make him a prime LOU candidate...excet he isn't covered for loss of use! *sigh*

He is covered for loss of horse but the issues weren't classed as keeping him alive being inhumane so couldn't claim even if he was PTS. I now have a potentially unrideable horse, who's only rising 8, and not an easy boy to handle - would def NOT be a candidate for turning away and living a nice easy retired life (tried it!)

I still hold out hope he'll come sound, but it has taken £8000 of investigation and treatment to find out what was wrong with him (recurrent Exertional Rhabdomyolysis - tying up) and to treat him to the point where he is at least field sound now.

I have drugs to start using when my knee is fit again, so I do still hope to ride him.

It is worth noting, if you decide to go down the vet investigation route, that if it is proved to not be anything 'real' then you will end up with VERY large vet bills. That said, I'm very glad I took the risk because we found the problem, I was covered, and now I can do the best I can for him....even if he is a useless beast!

For a long time we all thought his issues were psychological, and brain tumour was also suggested to me. We found and treated ulcers.....lots of red herrings! Sometime you ust have to keep digging.
 
At the risk of sounding cold...if he is in no pain and you feel that PTS is a viable option then why not exhaust your policy a bit if vet feels that the horse warrants further investigation? I know that sounds kind of harsh but I just feel that in such a predicament I would want to try ad ascertain any possible reason and if he is in no pain and insurance isn't going to pay out then I would certainly investigate as far as possible with insurance paying.
 
amage said:
At the risk of sounding cold...if he is in no pain and you feel that PTS is a viable option then why not exhaust your policy a bit if vet feels that the horse warrants further investigation? I know that sounds kind of harsh but I just feel that in such a predicament I would want to try ad ascertain any possible reason and if he is in no pain and insurance isn't going to pay out then I would certainly investigate as far as possible with insurance paying.
Click to expand...

This seems like the best option as it may show something that can be fixed and if not may give you the option of PTS. You have nothing to loose. Personally I would not risk injury though, and I would not be asking anyone else to either (I know that was not the OPs intention but others have suggested someone else ride him).
 
I'd ring your insurance company and ask them.

But if you genuinly think he's dangerous and should be destroyed, then do it. Regardless of what the insurance implications are.

Heartbreaking for you.
 
You won't get a payout on behavioral grounds, even LOU. To claim LOU there has to be a diagnosed physical issue.

I think you have to accept the purchase money is spent and either you keep the horse and make the best of it, you PTS and accept you have no money and no horse, or you sell the horse for what you can get knowing the risk that he may be passed around and/or hurt someone.

A very common, sad and frustrating situation.
 
A really bad situation to be in, but I agree with the thorough vet's diagnois too. Think of everything weird it could be, from eyesight to ulcers to brain tumour. Think carefully what you are going to tell the insurance company though, and make sure you are covered for vets fees.

I would write down what happened to you to show the vet, and also any other incidences you can think off.

I had a mare who was "funny" in a collecting ring and I think she must have been knocked over at one stage as she couldn't bear a strange horse anywhere near her and would doge out of the way and kick out. She also had a hatred of grey horses! Still, her oddness was containable and she didn't do anything to put the rider in danger. Yours sounds a much more difficult problem.
 
The collecting ring thing MAY be sortable....our mare had been deliberately rammed into the wall by another competitor at an indoor show (oh the joys of showing!) and was a big problem both in the ring and the warm up...she would either buck or lash out and tried to lie down once.

We worked with our trainer and lots of other horses on desensitising her, riding quiet horses increasingly close to her, and ignoring her if she got upset (rather than telling her off or trying to hold her) while making a fuss of her if she stayed calm.

It did work, and she is so much better now, although she needs the occasional 'top up' if we're going to a venue that we know is a bit hairy.

But if he's doing it in other circumstances, that's more difficult and you have my every sympathy.
 
firstly speak to your vet.
i fyou decide to then talk to your insurance then you should be ready for them to not to pay out and ask why you didnt inform them of the horses behavour before. i am sure i have read that somewhere the if you consider your horse to be dangerous then you must inform your insurance company straight away.
good luck and i hope your vet finds somethin silly and it gets sorted quickly x
 
Tr0uble said:
I'm afraid insurance will only pay out for loss of horse if the horse was PTS for humane reasons, and there are quite tight restrictions on what these reasons are. I would be surprised if your horse fall into this category.

Is he insured for loss of use?
Click to expand...

I agree with what Trouble says. My horse was diagnosed as being a wobbler. He had three episodes of severe ataxia before being referred to an Equine Hospital where a diagnosis was made. The delay in referring him stemmed from a misdiagnosis of EHV (equine herpes virus) which delayed him being referred due to the threat posed by passing on this disease. When he eventually went to the hospital and after receiving comprehensive xrays whilst there which showed the extent of damage to his vetebrae, he was diagnosed with late onset wobblers or CVM or the equivalent (equine cervical malformation). The vet recommended immediate humane destruction under the grounds that the horse was a danger to himself and others by his ataxia which would surely increase in occurence in the future. I asked whether I would be covered on my policy and was assured that I would be. It took a couple more weeks than normal for my claim to go through but I did eventually receive a
 
Is it just when you ride him? Because if it is, surely he is not a danger to himself or others on the ground. Sorry if I misunderstood your original post and that I am no help insurance wise, just wondered.
 
Someone local to me had her mare PTS on vets advice as vet was convinced she had neurological problems, she had suddenly become beyond dangerous to humans and herself (this was totally unlike her).
But as a post mortem had not been done the insurer refused to pay out (think she was with NFU).
Im not sure if a neurological disorder can be detected by PM but this was the reason the insurance gave her for not paying out.
 
Echo whomever said to get the vet check him out, he may have a brain tumour or something physical which would in fact be covered by your insurance company.

Such a sad situation and you are obviously not taking this decision lightly, neither do you sound as if you are simply overhorsed, you seem to have done everything you could for this horse and are making a very brave and hard decision, I feel for you.
 
SusieT said:
Why not send him to someone else for schooling? Many horses don't gel with some riders after all.
Or retire him? He is healthy other than the competition environment? Does he hack? Showjump/Dressage? I know you said the problem this week was in the warm up..
Has he had any vet work up?
Click to expand...

The OP does not sound like an incompetant ninny! I am sure she has worked hard at reschooling and desensitizing him, there are far worse things than death!

Not everyone has the facilities to keep a horse in retirement and in these cases it is far kinder to have PTS tbh.

Agree re the vet workup though.
 
Amaranta said:
The OP does not sound like an incompetant ninny! I am sure she has worked hard at reschooling and desensitizing him, there are far worse things than death!

Not everyone has the facilities to keep a horse in retirement and in these cases it is far kinder to have PTS tbh.

Agree re the vet workup though.
Click to expand...
Admittedly I am not SuzieT's biggest fan, however nowhere in her post does it suggest that the OP is an "incompetent ninny". It is a fact of life that some horses and riders just don't get on.
 
If he has comprehensive insurance I would get all the tests done first so that you can be sure there is no underlyng reason. He obviously has talent as you have done well with him so far, IMHO i think it would be a shame not to check every thing first.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top