POLLDARK
Well-Known Member
Gun every time, the brain is dead instantly, who knows with an injection. Does the body go before the brain, imagine the fear.
Euthanasia
- Thread starter Wagtail
- Start date
Wagtail
Horse servant
No, its th same as when they are put to sleep for an operation and no one worries about that. They know nothing. They are unconscious when the heart stops.
Paddy Irish
Well-Known Member
My old mare went to the kennels to be shot ( She was a regular visitor anyway so was totally chilled ) , with her snout in a bucket of grub - her favorite pastime - she was dead before she even hit the floor , bless her and the marksman was spot on , no messing. I have known horses to get up and thrash around horribly after the injection , so i would personally prefer the gun..
Rana
Well-Known Member
I've had one done by injection and one by gun.
Injection - kinder for me, definitely. I was able to stay with her til the last second (vet walked her on a couple of steps, apparently it helps the drug to circulate??), and spent time with her saying goodbye afterwards. She was good with vets and injections, and as it was the first time I'd had a horse put down, I felt it was the best option at the time.
Gun - I chose this as the better option for my vet- and needle-shy horse. She would have known something was up as soon as the vet arrived, and I didn't want that for her. I was getting very wound up though, I was much closer to this mare than the previous one, and in the end I was upsetting her so handed her to my OH and walked away. I heard the shot and didn't look back. It was instant, but she did bleed a lot and I decided not to see her afterwards.
Both went with a mouthful of apple, and peacefully.
I voted for gun, I felt it was quicker for the horse and there were less potential things to go wrong (drug has to be stored correctly, administered correctly etc). Ultimately though, I think the decision has to be based on horse, owner, and circumstances.
Injection - kinder for me, definitely. I was able to stay with her til the last second (vet walked her on a couple of steps, apparently it helps the drug to circulate??), and spent time with her saying goodbye afterwards. She was good with vets and injections, and as it was the first time I'd had a horse put down, I felt it was the best option at the time.
Gun - I chose this as the better option for my vet- and needle-shy horse. She would have known something was up as soon as the vet arrived, and I didn't want that for her. I was getting very wound up though, I was much closer to this mare than the previous one, and in the end I was upsetting her so handed her to my OH and walked away. I heard the shot and didn't look back. It was instant, but she did bleed a lot and I decided not to see her afterwards.
Both went with a mouthful of apple, and peacefully.
I voted for gun, I felt it was quicker for the horse and there were less potential things to go wrong (drug has to be stored correctly, administered correctly etc). Ultimately though, I think the decision has to be based on horse, owner, and circumstances.
pokerface
Well-Known Member
always the gun, but by the hunt only. vets do not shoot animals often enough. i have seen some horrible situations with injections of horses getting back up etc. the gun is done quickly, an injected horse stands there for some length of time swaying and almost as if they are trying to hold on to their life, too slow for me
dianeholmes
Well-Known Member
I once was involved in organising a conference for vets on emergency rescue for equines and one session was with a prof of vet medicine who talked about sedation and euthanasia and the options for trapped horses. He was adamant that if the right cocktail of drugs is given no horse needs to thrash.
I think disposal and the costs are a part of the equation for owners when having an animal PTS. With horses the costs can be substantial. The gun gives more options to be frank.
I think disposal and the costs are a part of the equation for owners when having an animal PTS. With horses the costs can be substantial. The gun gives more options to be frank.
baran
Well-Known Member
In both cases, I left the decision to my vet - they are the person doing it.
montysmum1
Well-Known Member
i agree
Wagtail
Horse servant
That's not at all like the injections I have witnessed. You must be mistaking the sedation stage for the real injection stage. The horse is sedated first, and just like if theyare being sedated for clipping or veterinary treatment, they do sway, but they are in a 'happy place'. When the final injection is given, the horse falls instantly. It is extremely fast.
Damnation
Well-Known Member
Gun next time.
Last mare was put down by lethal injection as it was the only thing available at the time. Took too long for my liking.
Last mare was put down by lethal injection as it was the only thing available at the time. Took too long for my liking.
Rudey
Well-Known Member
I have experienced horses being PTS by both methods. I was quite sat on the fence for a while about the subject.
I discussed it with a friend recently. She had said she wouldn't like the gun as after the horse is shot, the horse falls to the floor. My response was, what did she think would happen with the injection if the horse was still on its feet when the injection is administered - the same thing.
The deciding factor for me is that when I thought about it and discussed it further, the injection instigates a heart attack leading the heart to stop. I know the horse is sedated and likely not to know this is what is happening, but I cannot get out of my head, is that I know humans experience extreme pain when having a heart attack. Bearing that in mind, I must say, I now prefer the gun in the sense that it is instant, and the horse does not know anything about it. I feel it is more humane in that sense.
I agree that sometimes the injection is kinder for the sake of the handler/owner (as long as it is done successfully without compliction). I think the gun appears brutal (for want of a better word) to some people due to the loud noise it makes going off and what is associated nowadays with gun crime/violence.
Not to jinx myself, (touches wood) but my horse Sammi can sense a vet a mile away. He eye balls them, snorts, and is very tense. He will be treated by vets, but he certainly does not like them. What would concern me about the injection, is the fact that he fights sedation. I would be concerned that he would fight the lethal injection.
Having said that, I have only been present at two horses that have been PTS by injection. Both horses were elderly, and were laid down and not able to get up. They were exhausted, and sedated by the vet so they went peacefully when injected. This was the right decision in the circumstances for these horses.
I do believe though, as others have said, it depends on the circumstances. If it were to be a pre-arranged PTS, I would opt for the gun. If a horse was down and suffering requiring veterinary treatment I would go with the injection.
What a sensitive subject. I found it difficult to respond as in writing, it looks so matter of fact.
xx
I discussed it with a friend recently. She had said she wouldn't like the gun as after the horse is shot, the horse falls to the floor. My response was, what did she think would happen with the injection if the horse was still on its feet when the injection is administered - the same thing.
The deciding factor for me is that when I thought about it and discussed it further, the injection instigates a heart attack leading the heart to stop. I know the horse is sedated and likely not to know this is what is happening, but I cannot get out of my head, is that I know humans experience extreme pain when having a heart attack. Bearing that in mind, I must say, I now prefer the gun in the sense that it is instant, and the horse does not know anything about it. I feel it is more humane in that sense.
I agree that sometimes the injection is kinder for the sake of the handler/owner (as long as it is done successfully without compliction). I think the gun appears brutal (for want of a better word) to some people due to the loud noise it makes going off and what is associated nowadays with gun crime/violence.
Not to jinx myself, (touches wood) but my horse Sammi can sense a vet a mile away. He eye balls them, snorts, and is very tense. He will be treated by vets, but he certainly does not like them. What would concern me about the injection, is the fact that he fights sedation. I would be concerned that he would fight the lethal injection.
Having said that, I have only been present at two horses that have been PTS by injection. Both horses were elderly, and were laid down and not able to get up. They were exhausted, and sedated by the vet so they went peacefully when injected. This was the right decision in the circumstances for these horses.
I do believe though, as others have said, it depends on the circumstances. If it were to be a pre-arranged PTS, I would opt for the gun. If a horse was down and suffering requiring veterinary treatment I would go with the injection.
What a sensitive subject. I found it difficult to respond as in writing, it looks so matter of fact.
xx
MissSBird
Well-Known Member
When it came to the decision I asked my vet, who I trusted, what his opinion was. He said that he used to be for the gun, but since they've improved injections recently he's changed his mind. I went with his advice and all went fine.
I don't think anyone can really say one or other is better. They're simply different means of achieving the same end. The method should be chosen according to the horses temprement and vets advice. My mare was simply unsound, was used to veterinary treatment throughout her short life, and was an angel to handle. The injection suited her completely fine and I held her right to the last moment. She was contentedly eating polos when she went.
If she hadn't been her, the gun may have been better.
I don't think anyone can really say one or other is better. They're simply different means of achieving the same end. The method should be chosen according to the horses temprement and vets advice. My mare was simply unsound, was used to veterinary treatment throughout her short life, and was an angel to handle. The injection suited her completely fine and I held her right to the last moment. She was contentedly eating polos when she went.
If she hadn't been her, the gun may have been better.
Lady La La
Well-Known Member
I hate hearing about how nasty the injection can be
I had to have Starla euthanized because she'd suffered a head injury meaning a bullet just wasn't an option. She was neurologically ruined for want of a better word and I often wonder what (if any) affect that had on the anesthetic/sedation. She certainly took an uncomfortabley long time to die. My poor dear old girl.
A bullet for me will (usually) always be preferable, but unfortunately circumstance can sometimes dictate a situation.
I had to have Starla euthanized because she'd suffered a head injury meaning a bullet just wasn't an option. She was neurologically ruined for want of a better word and I often wonder what (if any) affect that had on the anesthetic/sedation. She certainly took an uncomfortabley long time to die. My poor dear old girl.
A bullet for me will (usually) always be preferable, but unfortunately circumstance can sometimes dictate a situation.
Ella19
Well-Known Member
I used to be all for the gun and to be honest if it was the quickest and most humane option at the time I would use it. However having worked for an equine veterinary practice for a year I think I would choose to have my horse injected, they are and will be my vets and I've unfortunately been with all of the vets at a euthanasia and have trust in their competance. There are pro's and cons to both and it totally depends on your horse and it's reaction as well as the person carrying out the unpleasent task.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I have experienced horses being PTS by both methods. I was quite sat on the fence for a while about the subject.
I discussed it with a friend recently. She had said she wouldn't like the gun as after the horse is shot, the horse falls to the floor. My response was, what did she think would happen with the injection if the horse was still on its feet when the injection is administered - the same thing.
The deciding factor for me is that when I thought about it and discussed it further, the injection instigates a heart attack leading the heart to stop. I know the horse is sedated and likely not to know this is what is happening, but I cannot get out of my head, is that I know humans experience extreme pain when having a heart attack. Bearing that in mind, I must say, I now prefer the gun in the sense that it is instant, and the horse does not know anything about it. I feel it is more humane in that sense.
I agree that sometimes the injection is kinder for the sake of the handler/owner (as long as it is done successfully without compliction). I think the gun appears brutal (for want of a better word) to some people due to the loud noise it makes going off and what is associated nowadays with gun crime/violence.
Not to jinx myself, (touches wood) but my horse Sammi can sense a vet a mile away. He eye balls them, snorts, and is very tense. He will be treated by vets, but he certainly does not like them. What would concern me about the injection, is the fact that he fights sedation. I would be concerned that he would fight the lethal injection.
Having said that, I have only been present at two horses that have been PTS by injection. Both horses were elderly, and were laid down and not able to get up. They were exhausted, and sedated by the vet so they went peacefully when injected. This was the right decision in the circumstances for these horses.
I do believe though, as others have said, it depends on the circumstances. If it were to be a pre-arranged PTS, I would opt for the gun. If a horse was down and suffering requiring veterinary treatment I would go with the injection.
What a sensitive subject. I found it difficult to respond as in writing, it looks so matter of fact.
The heart attack thing is completely misunderstood. The injection does NOT give the horse a heart attack. It is an overdose of anaesthetic. The horse is completely unconscious a couple of minutes before the heart stops. The heart is the last thing to stop after the brain functon and breathing. If you are thinking the injection gives the horse a heart attack, then so does the gun. The heart stops because the horse dies.
JenHunt
Well-Known Member
the gun if I have the choice - If I get the opportunity to 'choose' when and where my lad goes, I'd like the hunt to do it.
obviously we don't always get the option we want, and if it has to be done in a hurry then whatever method is available is better than him suffering.
obviously we don't always get the option we want, and if it has to be done in a hurry then whatever method is available is better than him suffering.
MrsElle
Well-Known Member
I haven't experienced the injection in horses, only have experience of the gun.
Ellie didn't know a thing about it, was dead before she hit the floor and there wasn't much blood at all. The worst thing I found was when her bladder emptied as I always equate that to fear, although she was most definately dead at the time. She twitched a bit which I expected anyway, but it did upset OH a bit as he didn't think she was dead.
The bit I couldn't watch was when they winched Ellie up onto the trailer. OH helped and was in tears but said he wanted to be involved in some way as I had held her when she was shot while he hid round the corner.
RIP Ellie
Ellie didn't know a thing about it, was dead before she hit the floor and there wasn't much blood at all. The worst thing I found was when her bladder emptied as I always equate that to fear, although she was most definately dead at the time. She twitched a bit which I expected anyway, but it did upset OH a bit as he didn't think she was dead.
The bit I couldn't watch was when they winched Ellie up onto the trailer. OH helped and was in tears but said he wanted to be involved in some way as I had held her when she was shot while he hid round the corner.
RIP Ellie
Wagtail
Horse servant
The bladder always empties when an animal dies.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Thats not quite true actually. The old injection used to be an anaesthetic overdose, hence why it so often used to go wrong, all animals react differently to anaesthetic and all will take different doses to 'overdose' and die. It isnt an exact science. The injections now are a cocktail of drugs including a large dose of anaesthetic, one of the drugs does indeed stop the heart.
I would now consider this improved injection as an option for PTS. Vets now tend to prefer it over the gun (whereas most opted for gun as best option before)
For me personally I still prefer the gun, the horse is brain dead before you have even heard the shot. The instant way they go down is final and more acceptable to me. I dont like to see them go down slowly with the injection. If I had a horse already very ill and on the floor I would now use the newer injection, I wouldnt have considered the overdose of anaesthetic in any circumstance before.
scewal
Well-Known Member
I voted injection, my friends mare went via injection. She was already down in the box, as i remember it worked really quickly for her.
Same friend had her old pony put down using a gun. I walked in just as the knackers man drove away. The poor boy left behind quite a mess of blood and i'm guessing brain matter. Is this normal for euthanasia via gun, the sight of it stayed with me for a long time. The knacker man held and shot the pony on his own as my friend chose not to be present.
Therefore i would choose injection for my girl.
Same friend had her old pony put down using a gun. I walked in just as the knackers man drove away. The poor boy left behind quite a mess of blood and i'm guessing brain matter. Is this normal for euthanasia via gun, the sight of it stayed with me for a long time. The knacker man held and shot the pony on his own as my friend chose not to be present.
Therefore i would choose injection for my girl.
RuthnMeg
Well-Known Member
Today, Juno was done by the huntsman using the gun. It was very quick, she didn't struggle or thrash about and in our opinions was the best option all round. I am so happy I chose this, and the sun was on her back with a thankyou in her eye. The huntsman was brilliant, calm, and Juno was not worried. Funnily enough, I thought I'd be in floods, but wasn't. She only left behind a small amount of blood, so nothing gory at all.
greyshighland
Member
I have experienced the gun once for a wonderful old girl ,local huntsman who was very good and kind however the look of suprise in her eyes has never left me 18 years later.
The last three have been injection by an excellent practice ,all eating a bag of treats and
lay down in the field very camly just as they do for an operation.
I have had 11 general anaesthetics and feel that is a pain free option for all animals.
The last three have been injection by an excellent practice ,all eating a bag of treats and
lay down in the field very camly just as they do for an operation.
I have had 11 general anaesthetics and feel that is a pain free option for all animals.
MrsElle
Well-Known Member
Sorry about Juno
I felt exactly the same, I thought I would be in bits but I didn't cry at all. Ellie was very old and her time had come, I think that was made it easier. I cried about 6 months later but more because I missed her, not that she was dead. Does that make sense? Ellie too didn't bleed much and I would definately do the same thing again if I had to.
(((hugs))) to you x
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Huge hugs hun x
Wagtail
Horse servant
The last horse I had PTS had to be done in her stable as she could not be moved. There is a talk bar through to the next horse. The body of the horse ad to remain there over night as it was late. If the horse had been shot, I think this would have severely distressed her neighbour (and good pal) because of the smell of blood. Our horses go crazy whenever the game keeper's around, it must be the smell of the blood. As it was, the horse next to the one being PTS by injection, was completely undisturbed and carried on munching her haylage throughout.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I am so pleased it went aswell as it could for you. So good that she had a peaceful end.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
RuthNMeg Ive been following your posts and I really felt for you today, I always think of it as the last gift we can give our horse a painless death.
Ive had 2 of mine done by injection, vet sedated first and then the injection, it is quick and very quick.
Ive had 2 of mine done by injection, vet sedated first and then the injection, it is quick and very quick.
M_G
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%
pricklyflower
Well-Known Member
I had the gun for one of mine, had her companion in the same field as advised and to let her sniff the body etc but was completely unprepared for the sound, smell, how the companion reacted (badly and wished i hadnt put her through it) and the amount of blood, there was so much blood and that will stay with me for a long time. No doubt about it being quick tho.
DJ
Well-Known Member
Same here ... my boy was PTS by the gun and a very experienced, kind huntsman. My boy had the sun on his back, and a calm, clear blue sky overhead. He was relaxed and nuzzling my hand as he went.
He`d had a lot of dealings with the vet and needles and it just wouldn`t have been fair on him to do it by injection. I do think the individual horse and the circumstances at the time should alwasy be taken into consideration.
I have no qualms using the hunt again though, very re-assuring all the way through the process.