Euthanisia, which do you "prefer" shooting or needle?

This is an age old topic but for what it's worth...
Last December I was in the unfortunate position of seeing a senior vet make a complete and utter hash of injecting my childhood pony of 30. I am not talking about a bit of a scene, I am talking over an hour while he drove back to the surgery to fetch his gun to finish her off. She was very much conscious, aware and suffering until the last 15 minutes when she finally went down. Even then she was semi conscious.
Therefore I will never allow this to happen to an animal in my care again. I know these events are rare but I had requested the gun in the first place and he didn't bring it, knowing better of course, and talked me into the injection. Never again. It is not worth the risk when you have seen what can happen.
 
Hmm, seems to be a lot of threads based on Euthanasia this morning! I am yet to get to this situation but if I had to choose I would prefer a gun - Instant and although a little gory, the horse/pony won't know anything of it!
 
Experienced both and would now go with huntsman. Don't let a vet shoot as others have said. Injection on one of ours took ages. Seemed like over twenty minutes. I'm not sure how much he was aware of but he had a nasty broken leg at time. Some just fight it. If I were you if you have to have a horse shot I would have sedation to hand. When v. big highly strung horses have had to be put down this has make it much safer for everyone but be careful with the timing. Don't give it to them before huntsman turns up as they might be late. I am not particularly pro-hunt but have found the huntsman in these circumstances to be excellent.
 
I spoke to local knackerman: I never mentioned the horse is a bit vet phobic, but the k/man [horse owner] said that the gun was best by far, he was in no doubt, quick, and no stress for horse.

We once did have to put a very strong type of racehorse down on the premises for humanitarian reasons, the vet did it, and it took nearly five minutes to take full action, not a pleasant experience for the handlers, but I don't know about the horse, difficult to say.
 
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Sedation, then injection if horse is not distressed and does not requires immediate euthanasia. This was the option I had for both of mine that were done this year. However, given the way the injection works, if the horse was hugely distressed and required immediate dispatch (such as broken leg etc), I would go for the bullet. Interestingly, the practises that put my 2 down do not offer the bullet option. Its handy to know this if a bullet is what you want so I would check with your vet before you ever have to get to that point. I keep the local knackermans number in my tack room and on my phone just on case this should ever happen. I also found out how long he takes to arrive so I can plan in whether the vet can get there first or not. Macabre I know but I cannot imagine anything worse than something terrible happening and not being fully prepared. I even have an 'action plan' pinned up in case I am not there. I was very glad of this when Murph was put down as I was a mess and OH did not have to ask anything of me as I had already had it all planned and written down.

Im in hampshire.
 
Turks said:
Injection on one of ours took ages. Seemed like over twenty minutes. I'm not sure how much he was aware of but he had a nasty broken leg at time. Some just fight it.
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People do say this. I wonder what it means though, because if the dose is correct and injected into a working circulation (i.e. heart still beating) there is no way that any animal could overcome the effects by conscious will. It simply isn't possible. So is it because the dose was too small, or mis-injected? Or are people interpreting involuntary, completely unconscious movements as "fighting it"?
 
I'm only witnessed the injection for the 2 I have been with, I know both ways can go wrong but personally I would say bullet always now and only done by the hunt, they have done friends horses and have shot pet sheep quick and efficient easier for animals and owners.

The 2 injections I have witnessed, one was a mini who has broken its leg due to a kick. Was quick he went down gently and was gone. The other one was for a 17hh who colicked. Owner refused the bullet. It was a complete disaster. Horse fought it to the bitter end the vet used everything in her car she could but she hung on in. I had to leave other staff to carry on with some work came back maybe 30mins or so went to give a pat and say sleep well and was mortified to find she was still with us thankfully she passed not long after but it was completely needless to of put her through it.
Over a hour of struggling against a split second, for me there's no question now I would want to see another horse go through that.
 
fburton said:
That is horrendous, flintmeg. :frown3: Did the vet say anything about whether the horse was conscious or not in this time?
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No they didn't, they didn't say a lot tbh from what I can remember was years ago now. I do remember clear that when I went to say bye, her eye tracked my movement, was mortified to see that.
 
PercyMum said:
Sedation, then injection if horse is not distressed and does not requires immediate euthanasia. This was the option I had for both of mine that were done this year. However, given the way the injection works, if the horse was hugely distressed and required immediate dispatch (such as broken leg etc), I would go for the bullet. Interestingly, the practises that put my 2 down do not offer the bullet option. Its handy to know this if a bullet is what you want so I would check with your vet before you ever have to get to that point. I keep the local knackermans number in my tack room and on my phone just on case this should ever happen. I also found out how long he takes to arrive so I can plan in whether the vet can get there first or not. Macabre I know but I cannot imagine anything worse than something terrible happening and not being fully prepared. I even have an 'action plan' pinned up in case I am not there. I was very glad of this when Murph was put down as I was a mess and OH did not have to ask anything of me as I had already had it all planned and written down.

Im in hampshire.
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Agreed. When I had mine PTS, he was very calm and injection was very quick, had he been stressed I don't think it would have gone so well.

I am open to either, and would judge by horses character if I had time. However, would probably opt for bullet these days by knackerman/hunt.

London/Kent here
 
will go for bullet next time, quick, decisive on horses I have seen - had distressing time with injection on last horse, took 2 hrs in all, from trying to sedate horse with oral sedative, which panicked horse, raised heart rate etc, wouldn't allow sedative injection to be administered - in end this was jabbed in backside. Took ages to work, then had wrangle to get catheter in, and horse went 'bang' up and over, as others have described, just horrendous and I am very emotional and guilt stricken still to this day - did suggest shooting in middle but vet wanted to carry on. Horrible, horrible. Took me a long time to get another horse.
 
I've always been of the opinion that shooting is best for the horse and needle is best for the sentimental owner, and the being you should be thinking about in that case is the horse, less so the owner, so bullet every time for me.
 
EmmyMD said:
I've always been of the opinion that shooting is best for the horse and needle is best for the sentimental owner, and the being you should be thinking about in that case is the horse, less so the owner, so bullet every time for me.
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This. And if I can't bear to be with him when the deed is done (although I will try really hard - feel I owe it to him), I will get a friend who he knows to stand in for me.

P
 
I too have seen several of both and would always choose the bullet for my horses. I have seen injection not entirely gone to plan. It's horrible.
Kent
 
If I have a choice, then its the bullet every time, with hunt or knackerman only.

However, I also respect others wishes/choice and would not speak out against injection if that is what they are set on.

Nobody appears to have mentioned taking their equine to the likes of Potters (and I know some on here who have done so). Though this is also by bullet, the whole shebang is very businesslike, but they are also compassionate too if you take them there yourself.
 
The Xmas Furry said:
If I have a choice, then its the bullet every time, with hunt or knackerman only.

However, I also respect others wishes/choice and would not speak out against injection if that is what they are set on.

Nobody appears to have mentioned taking their equine to the likes of Potters (and I know some on here who have done so). Though this is also by bullet, the whole shebang is very businesslike, but they are also compassionate too if you take them there yourself.
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Oh well done for highlighting this XFF . . . it's an excellent point, particularly given the need to embrace the work decent slaughterhouses do . . . we shouldn't be shying away from these places, but giving them a legitimate place in horsey society.

P
 
PolarSkye said:
Oh well done for highlighting this XFF . . . it's an excellent point, particularly given the need to embrace the work decent slaughterhouses do . . . we shouldn't be shying away from these places, but giving them a legitimate place in horsey society.

P
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However.......
Currently - as at mid last week - there is a 5-6 week wait for planned disposal if going to Bristol.
Also, you will likely not get paid if section 9 has been signed out on the equines passport. (so a number of breeders are refusing to get their 'stay home' stock opted out), but you'd need to confirm this when phoning through to book.

I was going to type more but if folks want to know more, its all out there anyway.
 
The Xmas Furry said:
However.......
Currently - as at mid last week - there is a 5-6 week wait for planned disposal if going to Bristol.
Also, you will likely not get paid if section 9 has been signed out on the equines passport. (so a number of breeders are refusing to get their 'stay home' stock opted out), but you'd need to confirm this when phoning through to book.

I was going to type more but if folks want to know more, its all out there anyway.
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Which just reinforces the need for better regulation, more slaughter houses and a more grown up attitude to dealing with the end of life of equines in this country.

P
 
flintmeg said:
No they didn't, they didn't say a lot tbh from what I can remember was years ago now. I do remember clear that when I went to say bye, her eye tracked my movement, was mortified to see that.
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Good grief, that's awful! It does sound to me like it botched and if that happened to me I would pursue the matter with the vet practice involved or further if necessary.

ETA: I wonder what the failure rate for lethal injection is. Reading the negative accounts in threads like this, one would be forgiven for thinking it was quite high - at least high enough to make shooting the preferred option for that reason alone. I am sure it rare though. Shooting can go wrong too, but how often does that happen? How do the failure rates compare?
 
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TBH I don't know what to think any more. I really don't know what I would choose next time. It is just a horrible thing to go through no matter what. Such a worry on top of making the decision in the first place. I would say my mare's death was quick, but certainly not perfect. However, I really don't think I could have stayed if it had been the bullet. And I owed it to her to be there.
 
I don't know how the failure rates compare but 'failure' with the injection can be more traumatic as not enough or not quickly enough causes a massive barbituate high so you have your sick/ injured animal climbing the walls. I've never seen it in a horse but I have in a big dog - it was very upsetting but at least the owner wasn't there.

For those that haven't seen it shooting is reasuringly quick
 
With baby she went down so quick. my vet was monitoring her heart eyes etc all time. at one point she "breathed" but my lovely vet kept explaining it was body reaction. she just lay there for a few moments (that seemed a life time ) with my arms round her neck till vet said she had gone. so quiet so peaceful but helped by my lovely down to earth vet.and i think with injection a lot comes down to your vet. liz explained everything to me. talked all through it explaining and i need that . injection for me having seen both over years .
 
I've had the last three of mine shot, two by knackerman and one by hunt. Every time it's been super quick and horse has no idea what's happening. Last one I took to kennels, unloaded, handed to huntsman turned my back and it was done. No fuss or mess and very easy to deal with. It's been the right decision on each case, one was a grass sickness victim which was chronic but turned acute, one was a youngster who had a screw loose and the other an older horse who had done tendon for the second time. I've been there several times for the injection and everytime it's just not been fast enough. Had a few done who were on way out themselves in emergencies and a few for other reasons. It's varied horse to horse, a couple have gone almost straight away, a couple have taken longer and been groaners. You never can tell. Personally I think because of this bullet is always best. In Surrey
 
I have put this on the forum before ... but this is what happened with 1 of mine who i lost 3 years ago ....


Our local Huntsman is a kind, caring gentleman.

I took my lad the couple of miles up the road to the Hunt. We unloaded him, and my husband turned the 4x4 and trailer around so it was facing the exit (just before a track that goes round some buildings).


To begin with i kissed his muzzle and told him how much i loved him, though i knew it was his time it was breaking my heart. I said my goodbye then i turned round so my back was to him.

I held his rope slack, although i had my back to him, my boys nose was resting on the back of my arm, and my hand was stroking his chest. We stood with the sunlight on our backs, and he was just stood relaxed. My husband stood to the side of me, and his arm round me.


The huntsman then counted down, (gently and quietly) .... 3 ... 2 ... 1 .. I heard the bang (and was ready for it) and let the lead rope go. I walked away to the car, and we drove away with out looking back.


I was there with him to the end, but i have no horrid memory. The huntsman and i had organised it, and discussed it in advance, and it was done this way so i didn`t have any lasting images in my mind. My last memories are his warm breath on my neck, after some beautiful cuddles, and the huntsman rubbing his forehead next to me, my boy was calm and relaxed.


I was lucky in our Huntsman being kind, and understanding (most are). It is a very personal decision, but i wouldn`t have changed a thing, and would do it again with any of mine.


Since we`ve moved yards, our local hunt kennels are now only about a 15/20 minute walk away too.
 
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I think it is a completely personal thing to us as owners as to what we feel is best for our horse and in some ways for us.

We had to say goodbye to our little pony last year, who was 32 and we had owned for 16 years. She was part of the family and i'm not going to lie, when my mum suggested having her shot i was disgusted, as in my opinion its a very disrespectful thing to do. She was also petrified of strange men and i knew she would go into full panic mode if she knew something was going on. In the end our vet (of 25yrs) came up, sedated her, we helped her down, then he put her to sleep. It was not nice to watch but at least i could sit by her as she passed. I have had 4 other experiences of horses being put to sleep by injection and have never seen anything go wrong, and have also never heard of any bad experiences first hand. I have however watched my vet (the same one as mentioned above) take 4 attempts to put a small rabbit to sleep as he didn't know how much stuff to use!!!

On the other hand i have had just one experience of a horse being shot, my dads old TB, and although i was not there (out of choice as i didn't want to experience that) it has left a massive mental scar on my dad who was holding him.

I understand completely that in an emergency shooting is necessary, but it is something i would never ever do out of choice. I would also never send a horse to the kennels. My little old girl is in a lovely wooden box in our living room, where she will more than likely be joined by the other horses and cats over the years. As a vegan my view on animals is that they are equal to us, they feel pain, feel fear and deserve as much respect as a human (if not more) and this is why i have the beliefs that i do.

There are horror stories on both sides, i think when the time comes you just have to choose what is best
 
Polos Mum said:
I don't know how the failure rates compare but 'failure' with the injection can be more traumatic as not enough or not quickly enough causes a massive barbituate high so you have your sick/ injured animal climbing the walls.
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Sorry but I don't understand how barbiturate could cause a "massive high". If it's in the bloodstream and it reaches the brain, it has a depressant action, even in sub-lethal and sub-anaesthetic doses. I'm not aware of any stimulant effect of barbiturates in horses. (Some tranqs can produce a paradoxical reaction, but not barbs as far as I know. Maybe a vet could comment on this point?) So it seems to me the only way an injection could cause such agitation is if the needle missed the vein and the animal was injected non-intravenously, in which case the pain of injection could well make the animal try to escape. Which is why putting a catheter/cannula in the vein first is a good idea.
 
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