even if its allowed its still unfair :(

Love

Love

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right first off, if you are BSJA registered, technically, are you still allowed to enter unafilliated competitions?

Ok, so here comes the rant - went to a show the other day - an unaffiliated showjumping one. There is one girl well known by everyone, and it has to be said she is a fanastic rider, that entered. But she is BSJA registered, obviously has been for a LONG time and her and her horse are at a very high level BSJA. Nearlly every show i go to she enters and wipes the floor with everyone. even if its not against the rules i still dont think its very fair. I mean its all well and good winning, but is the sense of achievement really that good when there is no competition at all TBQH?

Love
 
it depends on the level at which they are competing both bsja and unaffiliated.Some classes won't allow them at local level,others are open to all. I don't think it's right that someone who jumps newcomers and above is allowed to compete at 2'3 or even 2'6 on the horse that is out jumping at newcomers heights. However I see no harm in someone who is bsja registered going out and competing at 3' classes and above local level providing they are not winning well at the bigger comps.
 
I know how you feel I get sooooo fed up with Pot hunters. I dodn't want to win everytime but it's nice to know you have a chance. When i used to show Lucy at piddly little green field shows we used to come up against ponies who had been to HOYS :mad: :mad: :mad: It's not so bad for me i suppose but it was more when i had small children showing Lucy it made me very cross.
 
in theory this does annoy me...but you don't necessarily know the full story...her horse might be stopping a lot for example and needs to take it round some easier tracks? a friend of mine jumps newcomers but her mare has lost confidence so at the minute is back down to smaller classes to get her confidence back.
its one of the reasons why i tend to compete at affiliated level- there are much clearer rules for who can enter which classes.. and when you are out of them you are out...
 
As my old instructor used to say to me (and I've never forgotten)

Who ever said that life was fair???

Blitz

PS it's the BEST feeling in the world when you beat one of these stuck up brats on an ex riding school pony (do I sound bitter? Am I a crappy winner.... YUP);)
 
TBH, I think what you are saying is a bit unfair. ANYBODY can register BSJA - you could have a 3 legged mule and you can register it - why does the fact you have paid some money so you can compete in affiliated events mean you can't go to local ones?

I had won a grand total of £20 with my horse, and I registered BSJA because there were BSJA shows locally I wanted to go in. We jumped in the british novice and smaller classes - most unaffiliated competitions have bigger courses than 90cm!!

Pot hunters etc are bad, yes - but most shows have rules for horse/rider/combination not to have won more than a certain amount, so that someone who has won £1000 last season can't go in a smaller class.

Opens at unaffs are usually OPEN to anybody, though.

If she is jumping and winning BSJA then you can actually report her to BSJA - I know one girl who was suspended for a season for taking her JA in a unaff puissance.
 
Agree with bramblemonty.Just cos you registered BSJA doesn't mean your any good/better than unaffiliated riders.
If the person is genuinely going in with an attitude that thinks they are better than everyone else and thinks they'll clean up then fraid thats between them and their conscience.
Know some clubs do put limits on classes-if horse/pony won x amount not eligible for some classes but there are usually opens that are.
Same can be said of some unaffilated horses/ponies you see doing well at the same level continually-should they be made to stop?
As someone said sometimes theres a reason person may be at that level wether rider or horse annoying tho that can be.Just have to accept it.
 
You can enter unaffiliated classes if you are BSJA registered yes. Unless said unaffiliated competition has put restrictions on - ie cap what winnings you have etc etc. As someone said, just becaise someone is registered and pays to jump at affiliated comps why shouldn't they jump at unaffiliated if they are eligible?

To be honest, if you were jumping at a high level BSJA then i am not sure why you'd want to jump at small unaffiliated, it'd be pointless really unless there is a good reason. For example, my horse has been affiliated since the age of 4 and we jumped up to newcomer. However, he is 19 now and between him and me our confidence isn't what it was so i will jump at unaffiliated places (generally trailblzers etc). Due to my previous BSJA winnings (not that much) i cannot jump british novice though but i feel more comfortable jumping that sort of height at the moment so I am stuck and can only jump where there are small opens BSJA or go to the unaffiliated places.

I don't think people should moan about others unless they know the full story to be honest.
 
Personally I don't think there is a big problem with BS riders/horses competing unaff. Most who are competing at a decent level will not bother with unaff and it is possible to beat those who do. ;)

I do, however, agree with Laura. It is far more of a problem with showing. At nearly every unaff show I've been to that has showing classes there are always one or two top level animals that the ordinary PC/family pony (who, afterall, the 'piddley little green field show' is meant for) does not stand a chance against. And what satisfaction do they get from winning such classes anyway?
 
The show organisers themselves are at fault here!

Many of the shows are saying "not to have won, been placed etc" in the class schedule.

Whilst I do not have a problem with some one with a BSJA horse entering an unaffiliated show to get their horses confidence etc back for example but then they should enter HC!

There will be those out there who are pot hunters and the show organisers should be savvy enough to ask them to enter HC rather than put off their regular have a go jumpers!
 
I get more annoyed at unaffiliated horses that win every competition. the horse can jump alot higher and most definitely succeed in affiliated with work but they jump a height alot lower than the horse is capable of knowing it is easy for the horse to win at, just for the rosette.
Also, showing, as well, I agree. Novice classes tend to be abused by people which annoys me a bit, when someone has a genuinely novice youngster in there against a horse/pony that has clearly had alot of ring experience, it's not fair! A beginner child wanted to take my safe, well schooled 15.1 in to the class, she is really very novice and reflects the nature of the class but what's the point when she would have been upset about being beaten by all the experienced show riders and horses in there.
but hey ho! Let the pothunters get on with it, its only a rosette that they wanted but couldn't be bothered to earn at a level suitable to their horses ability!
 
jaffa2311 said:
I get more annoyed at unaffiliated horses that win every competition. the horse can jump alot higher and most definitely succeed in affiliated with work but they jump a height alot lower than the horse is capable of knowing it is easy for the horse to win at, just for the rosette.
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But not everyone can afford to affilliate, I couldn't.

OK, if someone is regularly winning at 3' or more and then pot hunts in a 2'3'', (most unaff classes round here are open to all these days, no matter how small) then that would be annoying!
 
What about if someone has several horses who compete every week at least once. The horse does every class in it upto 3ft with either the same or different rider for each class.
I think, personally, that is greedy.
Maybe if my horse was more experienced I'd have a different view though. I don't know if its me being all funny because my horse is very green and has no chance against them yet they appear at every comp and do every height on their very capable horses.
We'll beat them one day, when we got over our 'OMG A NEW JUMP I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE we HAVE to stop and snort at it first' lol :)
 
foraday said:
The show organisers themselves are at fault here!

Many of the shows are saying "not to have won, been placed etc" in the class schedule.

Whilst I do not have a problem with some one with a BSJA horse entering an unaffiliated show to get their horses confidence etc back for example but then they should enter HC!

There will be those out there who are pot hunters and the show organisers should be savvy enough to ask them to enter HC rather than put off their regular have a go jumpers!
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i agree with you that its the show organisers who should put something in the schedules for smaller classes not allowing those with BSJA winnings to enter a 'novice 2ft6 class' for e.g. BUT...if the schedule has no restrictions why the heck should they have to enter HC???! they are having to pay entry money the same as everyone else so should be eligible for prizes if there is nothing debarring them in the schedule.
i'm another who gets more annoyed by very experienced horses who do RC year in/year out very successfully and never move on- i think thats far more pathetic than people occasionally entering an unafil class when they would normally go affil. I won't jump at unafil shows (except trailblazers) because the courses are normally not as good- a lot of people who compete at affil feel the same way- hence its not a massive problem. showing, i agree, is more of an issue
 
BSJA do have a rule on this

members of the bsja are not allowed to compete as owner or rider or to officiate in any capacity other than med officer/vet/farrier/first aid at unaffiliated shows if, in any jumping ring at the same show there is a prize of £10 or prizes in kind to that value.

So basically if its just rosettes and no prize money affiliated riders can compete if first prize is £20 they can't
 
foraday said:
The show organisers themselves are at fault here!

Many of the shows are saying "not to have won, been placed etc" in the class schedule.

Whilst I do not have a problem with some one with a BSJA horse entering an unaffiliated show to get their horses confidence etc back for example but then they should enter HC!

There will be those out there who are pot hunters and the show organisers should be savvy enough to ask them to enter HC rather than put off their regular have a go jumpers!
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Totally agree with this ! Same goes for Unaff Dressage classes..infact I think its even worse in dressage !!

My dad has a good theory on this... Pot Hunters are folk who paid out a lot of money in horses, equipment and lessons to do well with but who have never really progressed above the level of just being average so thats where they stay. They NEED the rosettes just to make the money seem well spent ;0)
 
there are soooo many reasons people compete affiliated... and once you are doing well you tend to keep doing well as you have the schooling/training there... most ponies have a height limit.. they can be very competitive at that height but would struggle to jump above it.

I certainly wouldnt stop competing unaffiliated just because I was doing well :) and as marmalade says finances do come into it too. many like to go out and compete but can't afford to affiliate.

You will always get people who keep winning (I am waiting for one of them to move onto horses as his legs are v v long on the ponies now) but fair play to them, they just show how it can be done.

Putting restrictions on classes can also affect the organisers takings which is important for them so not entirely their fault, outdoor grass unaff sj round here has been quiet over the last few years (well more than previously) so it makes sense to have no restrictions or it isnt worth running.
 
ester said:
Putting restrictions on classes can also affect the organisers takings which is important for them so not entirely their fault, outdoor grass unaff sj round here has been quiet over the last few years (well more than previously) so it makes sense to have no restrictions or it isnt worth running.
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Totally agree, unaff SJ is v. v. quiet round here these days, indoor aswell as out. When I used to compete and win regularly (yes, I was one of those :p), you could have upto 70 in a class, now they are lucky to get a dozen. Show organisers need to make it pay.
 
I am affiliated!! But at the moment myself and my horse are having a confidence crisis!!

My horse has jumped upto fox just because i am affiliated does not mean i am any good lol!!
At the moment he wont even jump 2'6 but its one of life many ups and downs!!
I my self do not have a problem with it!! If they are the best on the day then fair play to them!!
True pot hunter P*** me right off!!
They will always be someone in life that will just want to take the the mick out of the system!!

One time it did tick me off is when i did the shires championships in 2007 and the girl won was affiliated. And her horses were a grade A and B she should not have been there at all!! I will not name names but she had given her horses diffrent name!! First prize was somethink like £300!!But there will always be one person that wants an easy win!! I dont know if anythink was done about it!!
 
As an adult I dont care tbh. So long as they are eligible for the class.

What really peeves me is the little local shows who do a lead rein class/first pony and the Wembley pony, professionally produced and plaited by the groom/parent turns up and takes the class. The little ones on their safe litlle hairies who have to do it themselves (bar the plaiting-I understand that a three year old probably cant plait up LOL!) dont get a look in.I have to say I do love it when the judge doesnt put the Wembley pony first!;)
 
I don't think just because someone has affiliated it means they shouldn't be able to compete unaffiliated. What I do think is wrong is where they compete at a lower level unaffiliated to pick up easy prizes.
I know there are all sorts of reasons people do it - sorting out issues, confidence crises etc and I have no issue with this, but when someone is currently successfully competing at a higher level in affiliated competition (or any competition for that matter!) it is bad sportsmanship to enter smaller classes without going HC in my opinion.
 
When I was jumping affiliated (one horse only) used to do unaffiliated as well but would only do the bigger opens so say 3'6" plus classes and you would find that generally most of the people doing the class were like me, mixing affiliated and unaffiliated and the level of competition was appropriate.

Everyone has their own reason for doing what they do - be it lack of funds or transport go further afield (thinking here of a friend who used to do riding club prelim/novice dressage and regularly win but had no transport so could only go to the occasional local dressage so not realistic to expect her to affiliate) or just wanting to stay in their comfort zone.

Pothunting for no reason is a different thing and I have competed HC in the past to get horses confidence back when I didn't feel I should genuinely be competing in the class.
 
i see what you mean that shouldnt really be allowed i could understand if she was on another horse but that doesnt ive anyone else a chance
 
it is a competition.. the best person wins,
if there are eligible in the rules they can enter
if they happen to win all the time it just means they are better than everyone else and everyone else needs to up their game if they want to win, everyone has a chance, but, most often, the the best horse/rider combination on lots of levels will win, thats what its about.

Nothing worse than a competition with no competition! :D

round here unaff you would only be pothunting for rosettes not prizes so you would only be there for the competition not for the prize.
 
My sister and I both compete affilliated (her far more successfully than myself) we very rarely compete unaffilliated, because as a rule the local summer shows just don't have the standard of course building necessary! We do however attend our local riding club show, with our horses as we have to go as we run the main ring jumping. we don't tend to jump lower than 3' and it's the one opportunity a year that my sister gets to compete her old JA pony! We do it entirely for fun and spend the whole day there working, putting up jumps, course building etc. If we couldn't go to compete we wouldn't run the jumping and our RC was desperately struggling to find people to do that! As a general rule I think as a result of our involvement the jumping is well run, the courses are of a reasonable standard as we don't put up anything we wouldn't jump our own horses over and yes we may be successful and win a couple classes, but the fact that people know that our jumping classes are decent and go up higher than most local shows tends to mean that we get better competition anyway! I do find that most of the time round the smaller classes it's the unaff jumpers that win anyway as they will steeplechase round the jumpoff rather than jumping in a more stylish manner that is necessary to tackle the bigger tracks!
So long as you are eligible to jump in a class I have no problem with it!!
 
hmm see I do think coursebuilding and competing on the same day can be rather dodgy ground. I have done when assisting but never when I have been the one to actually lay out the course. (though I nearly did this year because I knew, for a change, it would be a nice course!) I did decide not to.
 
blitznbobs said:
As my old instructor used to say to me (and I've never forgotten)

Who ever said that life was fair???

Blitz

PS it's the BEST feeling in the world when you beat one of these stuck up brats on an ex riding school pony (do I sound bitter? Am I a crappy winner.... YUP);)
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Oh yes, one of my greatest moments was beating rich little stuck up little brat at a local show. Ok we were 9, but she was one her £3000 show jumping pony and I was on fat riding school pony. Chase-me-charlie triumph!!
 
A lot of classes in my area have two sections per class. One is for people who are affiliated or have won a certain amount, the other section is for people who haven't. It works really well :)
 
Hi everyone since I do not compete at BSJA level can someone tell me who is it that is registered the Rider or the Horse?

If it's the rider then I suppose if they have a new horse or young horse being bought on then it's fair enough to compete in local open shows. If it's the horse that has won previously then they should not be allowed to win more than 3 times say?

At our local Dressage shows if you win your class you are not allowed to enter that class again and have to move up a class.:)
 
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