Event horse market - your opinions

I dunno about gelding vs mare - I personally am not a mare person, but equally the sort of person who wants that type of horse is possibly the sort of person who would want to breed from their 'wonderful' horse and would think its babies will win badders, so there could be a lot to be said for mares!

Not suggesting you'd sell something duff, but I can't see the point of breeding from something only good enough to go Novice unless you want to breed yourself a nice RC horse.
 
Thats interesting... I think the structure of the young horse classes over here needs to be improved still (im taking 6/7 yo's as opposed to 4/5 yo's), I'm not saying they're bad... Just a bit behind a few of the european countries *prepares to be shot down*
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No, tried some horses from pro's (fredericks, Harry meade, etc.) and have to be honest hated them all. ended up with two horses bought from middle aged amateur women and theyre much quicker thinking!

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That is because they have not had someone doing the thinking for them! I would not be able to ride one side of something professionally produced as I am not consistent enough. Its one of the reasons I don't see the point in sending your horse to a pro for schooling if you are an amateur too. Pro horses need to be put right to every fence and fall apart if you have an amateur moment of the 'long stride? short stride? you decide, here have the reins' variety!!
 
Never used to be a mare person, but having had one would deffo have another one... but with her she's nice enough to breed something out of that would go at least intermediate, and if I were to look for another mare, I would look for something with the same qualities to be able to do this if it all went t*ts up!!
 
Deffo what people are after.. it's what i always try and sell, although never making the £10 - £15k mark, usually the £7 - £10k mark, although i did sell one that was never going to go above Int. for £20k, but it was an out and out Jr's horse totally idiot proof, but with that bit of class...

I think it's the best market to aim for, there's plenty of horses out there like that, and they're easy enough to 'do'
 
exactly. I have to be honest, the horse of Harrys did think like this, it was just more an issue of he was outing it because it wouldn't make top level for him, and while I don't want to compete at the same level as him I want something with the qualities to be able to for the reasons mentioned above! I don't want to be sat on something thinking "oh god I have to be selective about which Int to enter as it won't cope here or there". The one of the Fredericks was a gorgeous horse, but muggins here couldnt sit on one side of it! and it just took all the pleasure out of it having to be correct at every fence and be in the perfect position...
 
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No, tried some horses from pro's (fredericks, Harry meade, etc.) and have to be honest hated them all. ended up with two horses bought from middle aged amateur women and theyre much quicker thinking!

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That is because they have not had someone doing the thinking for them! I would not be able to ride one side of something professionally produced as I am not consistent enough. Its one of the reasons I don't see the point in sending your horse to a pro for schooling if you are an amateur too. Pro horses need to be put right to every fence and fall apart if you have an amateur moment of the 'long stride? short stride? you decide, here have the reins' variety!!

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And also because they spent 90% of their time ridden by grooms... if they're lucky the pro will sit on them twice in the week: once at home and once at the event.
 
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exactly. I have to be honest, the horse of Harrys did think like this, it was just more an issue of he was outing it because it wouldn't make top level for him, and while I don't want to compete at the same level as him I want something with the qualities to be able to for the reasons mentioned above! I don't want to be sat on something thinking "oh god I have to be selective about which Int to enter as it won't cope here or there". The one of the Fredericks was a gorgeous horse, but muggins here couldnt sit on one side of it! and it just took all the pleasure out of it having to be correct at every fence and be in the perfect position...

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And also, you don't want to do the same level as him now, but in the future, who knows? You have the support system to do it, so what's the point in buying something which won't go on?

You're not the first person to try a pro horse and not be able to ride it well!
 
hmm yah, but to be honest the horses I tried had been ridden by the pro's alot I would have said. Well one oof them definitely was. I dont think they can get away with this at intermediate level on a horse that hasnt competed at that level before whereas they can with novices.
 
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And also because they spent 90% of their time ridden by grooms... if they're lucky the pro will sit on them twice in the week: once at home and once at the event.

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Now I'm confused - surely if they have been ridden by grooms they should be more forgiving?
 
Indeed Martha, but when the likes of the Freds, WFP and Townend are competing at least 3/4 days a week, realistically with 20 horses they only get schooled by them once a week. Not all the grooms can school them, but most pros have a stable jockey in charge of doing it.
 
no, admittidly i dont think the freds rode the horse i tried that often. I think WFP rides more or just aswell as most... I think what makes the difference is how many working pupils etc they have mulling around to teach instead if I'm honest... anyhow sorta hijacked the post beautifully now!!
 
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Indeed Martha, but when the likes of the Freds, WFP and Townend are competing at least 3/4 days a week, realistically with 20 horses they only get schooled by them once a week. Not all the grooms can school them, but most pros have a stable jockey in charge of doing it.

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Yep, a stable jockey far more talented than any of us will ever be
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. Billy Twomey used to be Michael Whitakers stable jockey - you can't say he isn't a pro.
 
From my observation it would seem the UK market is going more and more the way the North American one has gone, with the really big money being spent for horses that can win in good company but will "take a joke" with their amateur owner. It's now quite common to see horses competed by a professional but really being "made up" for the owner to downgrade and learn the ropes on eventually. If the horse can also win in the Open competition the price will go up. If the horse will win in Open competition with the owner . . . well, name the price. (Although this is even more difficult to predict - and to do - with event horses than with dressage horses and jumpers. Look at Internet.)

The catch is these horses have to be classy AND good minded AND brave AND well schooled AND forgiving AND a "popular" size AND sound AND likely to stay all of the above. The also have to have accumulated the record and experience without compromising their soundness . . . an extremely tall order and not one that comes cheap. If people want this they need to expect to pay for it. There are very few such horses in the world and the people who own them often know what they've got. It may take a bit longer to sell at a good price but then again, they have the whole world as their market and usually if the horse is genuine it's just a matter of finding the right buyer with the cash to spend. It is true current events will affect this somewhere but there are a surprising number of people with a lot of money in the world and many of them are willing to pay for the success of themselves or their children.

The "end run" that's been popular - for a relatively inexperienced rider to buy a young horse to "grow together" often works out spectacularly badly. It's often people who have been disappointed with this route - or worse, hurt - who will pay the big money for a more confirmed horse.

But the horse has to actually BE all those things. Not "potential", not "everything but. . ."

As far as pros making horses, it depends on how you define the terms. A horse that's made up with the Olympics in mind but for some reason it doesn't pan out is not, generally automatically suitable for any old rider. It has as much to do with the horse as the sort of ride/training it's had. You can't just make horses into whatever you want. There are many famous stories of people paying obscene money for top competition horses for amateurs/kids to ride and finding out they can't ride one side of it. It's practically a cliche. An Olympic horse and a top amateur horse are not usually the same animal, although there are, of course, exceptions. But that doesn't mean pros don't occasionally have horse which upon examination, lean more towards the client market. A good pro will simply make the horse up with that in mind. A horse that has been at the absolute top level may or may not be able to "drop down" - it's not exactly the same job and some can adapt, some can't.

I don't think it's fair to say "never buy a horse from a pro" any more than to say "never buy an event horse that hasn't hunter" or "never buy a mare". Each horse needs to be judged as an individual.

The only horse I ever owned that made money for me was a horse confirmed at the equivalent of Novice with some promising Int results. He was injured and I chose not to push him again but I was able to lease him out for the rest of his working life, first as an eventer, then a SJer, then as a dressage horse. He was brave and safe and could win, but was also a good schoolmaster. He also did some coaching testing, for which he was much in demand. I loved watching him teach people and it was great to see his leasers outstrip their own expectations. When his leases came up people contacted me to have him next. I could have sold him I don't know how many times. From a financial point of view he was far more successful than many horse that went further on paper or cost more money at the beginning of their careers.
 
I would buy one like that - don't have the time or the money to compete continually throughout the season and therefore don't feel like I will ever be capable of making the higher levels and quite happy at the intro/pn/novice stage and would pay reasonable money (if I had it) for a genuine, safe and reliable mount... not everyone is hugely competitive and a lot do it for the love and the fun of getting out imho.
 
Check out H&H this week - or he is online now - mine fits your requirements exactly
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Sorry, couldn't resist, I know this is advertising - but I have also paid H&H mega-bucks for an advert with a pretty picture
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lol, nothing to add to the discussion but your version of 'long stride, short stride, here have the reins' is hilarious
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QR. Yes there is a market - I had a horse exactly like that, with novice points and had done Intermediate Novice but he was only 15.2 and didn't really have the speed for Intermediate. I had zillions of calls and he sold to the second person who tried him for the asking price of £12,500.
 
He went to a very happy home who absolutely adored him, but sadly he had to be put down last year after developing back problems completely out of the blue. It was really sad as I had high hopes of them having many years of fun with him
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