Event Photos frustation!!!

I an assuming with the name vodkagirly you are probably a student so have never had to run a business .. setup cost come with any business model .. it's part of life .. I just wanted you to realise that the profit on the photos is not what you probably
think it is ...
 
careful horseman your beginning to sound a little patronising ,no way to win over potential buyers ;)

i think what everyone means is £19 is a lot to pay for one photograph ,at a couple of events i go to there photos are about £6 each printed on the day ,yes they are not the best quality i have seen but they are far from the worst.
i can't help buying about 4-5 pics hence spending £30ish but the events that have photos for sale for £12+ i wouldn't even bother looking through them until i get home and maybe have a look on the internet although i'm unlikely to buy any unless it was a really good shot

why not sell poorer quality/smaller prints cheaper ,clearly stating they could have a good quality pic for a higher price ,giving potential buyers a choice

also if i have paid £12+ for one photograph i expect to then be able to do anything i like with it ,after all we buy pictures to show our friends ,how can it be fair to say i want £5 before you can show your mother that picture ?
 
lui23456 said:
Welshstar can you ask them to move down this way please that sounds amazing, I'd defo buy loads at those sort of prices!!!!
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They are. They go to just about every event and I must of spent hundreds on photos of my boys! I'm currently waiting till after the weekend because I know they will be at a show I'm going to so I can buy the £25 CD with the photos from my last event- these include low res. facebook ones and full quality ones. I'm not sure why some photographers can do it for this price yet some others can't??
 
Horseman said:
I an assuming with the name vodkagirly you are probably a student so have never had to run a business .. setup cost come with any business model .. it's part of life .. I just wanted you to realise that the profit on the photos is not what you probably
think it is ...
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Very condesending. Actually I'm a Business Account Manager responsible for £500 million of business in Telecomunications - I don't know much about costs on equine photography, I know a little about profit and loss, and selling lots at a low margin is better than selling nothing at a higher margin.
 
Vodkagirly said:
Very condesending. Actually I'm a Business Account Manager responsible for £500 million of business in Telecomunications - I don't know much about costs on equine photography, I know a little about profit and loss, and selling lots at a low margin is better than selling nothing at a higher margin.
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:D bet he feels a right twit now ,good for you :D
 
20k to set up? blimey what are you buying?! Yes it depends on the amount of photographers you have in your set up business but I could and potentially do it for a lot less.

£2.5k will buy one good camera set up top of the range £5k. Add in insurance and some marketing a decent computer with editing software (although that doesn't have to be expensive) and so it can be done for £5k. If you are going to do your own printing then yes good printer and generator adds a few more k but i'm still far from £20k! Yes ideally you need at least one spare body and lens but I know I certainly keep my old ones as backup which then get sold on when I next upgrade and then the current one becomes backup if that makes sense!

Most event photographers round me tend to get freelance guys in for events (with their own equipment) so no additional 'start up' costs there.

It's bad attitudes from photographers in my opinion that are losing them business (as well as economic climate!) I often put my backup DSLR in the hands of my groom or my otherhalf when he isn't away and both normally capture some great shots just as good as the pro tog on site. I will though still buy the pro shots if they are good, not over priced and they have a good attitude.

One guy locally who is successful takes great shots charges £9 a print and if you ask is more than happy for you to publish on facebook etc. I normally but at least one if not more from him. Oh yes and he is friendly ;)

Another again great photos is £15 a print BUT for £60 you get high res copies of all photos from the day of one horse. for my last event that was 23 photos of which a good 15 were print worthy so £4 a photo plus a few 'dodgy ones' (due to light/fog/horses ears!) thrown in, and although that doesn't include copyright it does include the right to reproduce for non commercial purposes. Guess what I am spending the £60!!

For the other end of the scale there is the £15 a print or £25 for high res copy (again non commercial use only, £35 for full copyright), rarely an outstanding photo and the freelance guys they hire are rarely horsey so often stand in ridiculous places (one cost me a BE placing last year before they were told to move by the organisers!) and don't get a good angle etc. Unsurprisingly I haven't actually ever brought anything from them!
 
Santa_Claus said:
(one cost me a BE placing last year before they were told to move by the organisers!)
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This drives me crazy - at one event I had one photographer standing right on the line between two close fences, and the other photographer was hiding behind the last fence :eek:

Unfortunately I'm rather vocal and so they both knew exactly what I thought of them (not something I'm proud of I hasten to add), and made sure the organisers were aware...
 
hhmm all very interesting

I sell onsite at £10 each, or 3 for £25, or disk of all images of your horse for £60
What do people think to my pricing ??

I also sell 700px FB images at £3 (with my name at bottom) or £5 (without name) online]


Its a tricky one - at the end of the day a photographer may charge more per photo and get less customers as a result, but make the same or more as me if i charge less and have more customers, so it really doesnt make much odds
 
Toffee_monster said:
hhmm all very interesting

I sell onsite at £10 each, or 3 for £25, or disk of all images of your horse for £60
What do people think to my pricing ??

I also sell 700px FB images at £3 (with my name at bottom) or £5 (without name) online]


Its a tricky one - at the end of the day a photographer may charge more per photo and get less customers as a result, but make the same or more as me if i charge less and have more customers, so it really doesnt make much odds
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Good prices IMO, and perhaps more importantly there's a range of prices so that if someone only wants to spend X amount they still can by purchasing FB images.

Choice is so encouraging.
 
Toffee_monster said:
hhmm all very interesting

I sell onsite at £10 each, or 3 for £25, or disk of all images of your horse for £60
What do people think to my pricing ??

I also sell 700px FB images at £3 (with my name at bottom) or £5 (without name) online]


Its a tricky one - at the end of the day a photographer may charge more per photo and get less customers as a result, but make the same or more as me if i charge less and have more customers, so it really doesnt make much odds
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To me that is pretty much spot on ideal pricing on the presumption that you are getting a good 10+ decent images for the £60. :)

Yes agree 'profit' can be same at cheap prices as well as expensive but with the rising cost of diesel I think it will be the lower end prices that win through.

I think those photographers that are aware of facebook and are often reduced low res images like yourself are those that will continue to have business going forward. Add in the discreet watermark provides fantastic advertising as well gives a win win situation.
 
MistletoeMegan said:
Good prices IMO, and perhaps more importantly there's a range of prices so that if someone only wants to spend X amount they still can by purchasing FB images.

Choice is so encouraging.
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i agree i think a good choice is the way forward and a friendly attitude :)
although i could never affored to spend £60 :o unless it was somewere pretty special :)
 
Santa_Claus said:
To me that is pretty much spot on ideal pricing on the presumption that you are getting a good 10+ decent images for the £60. :)

Yes agree 'profit' can be same at cheap prices as well as expensive but with the rising cost of diesel I think it will be the lower end prices that win through.

I think those photographers that are aware of facebook and are often reduced low res images like yourself are those that will continue to have business going forward. Add in the discreet watermark provides fantastic advertising as well gives a win win situation.
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Totally agree with this!! Usually I will buy a photo, as I always love having event photographers there, but I dont want to feel ripped off!!!
 
Simples, I take my Daddy with me and his posh camera and get tonnes of pictures of me and the boy :D (for free!)

I went to an XC clinic last year and there was a photographer there, the pictures are amazing, I think they were a tenner each but to be honest I loved all the pictures and could have spent £100, I don't have £100 spare for pictures of a horse I see twice a day :D I love the idea of cheap low res pictures for facebook and personally I would be more than happy to promote the photographer via a discrete logo for a small price tag!

Totally agree that if the prices are low, say £5 a picture I would be more likely to buy four and spend £20 than if they were £20 each when I probably wouldn't buy one!
 
no he does not feel a twit .. as i said running your OWN business !!! is different to playing with someone elses money .. and the complaints are not from the photographers on here :)
Santa believe me your are way out with you costings ..
I guess it's down to the quality of the image you require .. is it not poor business sense to produce poor quality images .. i have ridden at events and seen pictures taken by non horsey photograpiers and offered at s cheap price due the their low overheads ..
I didn't buy and would not even look in the future ..
the old saying you get what you pay for springs to mind .. (most of the time ) :
why don't you guys ALP post what you expect to pay for
1 6x9
3 6x9s
1 8x12
facebook file
high res image
key ring
cup
montage with 2 images on
montage with 3 images on
my prices
1. 6x9 £10 buy 2 get 1 free :)
1. 8x12 £15 2 for £25
every £20 spend get there low res images for facebook :)
high res image is same as the print price
cups £10
keyrings £5
please post your thoughts
be nice lol
 
I haven't bought a pro photo in ages as I just haven't seen one that I would want to pay for at all. Thay always take the pics at the most boring fences, if you keep going to the same venue they often don't even vary the fence & there seem to be half a dozen galloping between fences if it's XC. Tbh my OH usually takes better pics than the pros even with a relatively cheap camera. He picks his fence to make good pictures (& checks he is not going to be in the way first!) so we don't have a portfolio that consists entire of roll tops & ramp into water.
 
I run several events and have used the services of the same tog for years! This is because a) his pics are excellent b) he does not charge fortune for them and c) he is pleasant and friendly and allows customers (mainly PC
kids and mums) to but their pics up on Facebook etc with a credit to him and does not charge a been.
He is a professional tog who does, weddings, modelling shots etc and does not an amateur and he says he is very grateful
for our business. He employs (not contracts) others and he even said he makes a good profit into coming into PC camp by making his prices reasonable. Food for thought perhaps .........;)
 
Horseman a £2.5k set up is more than capable of taking top quality pics.

My set up is capable of printing images at A1 retaining full quality never mind 6x9 and I think you are insulting a lot of photographers to say that unless you spend £5k per camera and lens that your photos are substandard. Actually you are insulting about 3/4s of the pro togs at badders for a start as that was te
Amount i saw that had a set up equal or less than mine!!

Yea the equipment is a factor but so are the hands it is in. That is the key to photography timing and eye for a frame.

We have actually had several pros come on here before (successful ones!) and if I remember rightly they quoted initial set up at £15k INCLUDING trailer!

I would post my ideas on costs but typing from phone which make it impractical but the other pros on this threads prices to me are ideal and it sounds like he is making a living!

I'm guessing you are a pro so maybe I will see you round in a few years?! Oh and yes I will make sure to write down my start up costs and promise to be humble and honest if I somehow reach £20k!!
 
Having had photos of me taken at a dressage event by a local equestrian photographer and at the same event very by the lovely S_C, S_C's pics were far, far better (which I think were with one of your old cameras). As were the XC ones she captured the other weekend.
So it's definitely the photographer, not the equipment in my opinion that is the key.
 
The photographer at the event I went to on Good Friday took some fab pictures and had imo a really good range of options and prices.
FB images (which were ok to use on forums and blogs too - I checked) were £3 each. So I bought 6 :)
Keyrings were £5 and there were a range of print sizes, the 6 x 9 was I think £9 but there was a range of sizes cheaper and more expensive.
I spent a lot more than I would have done if there had only been expensive prints or high res images.

The reality is I only want a limited number of prints and I don't need hi res images but would be happy to buy a few lo res images each time to share with my friends.
 
One of our local photographers charges

7x5 Mounted £8.00
9x6 £9.00
10x8 Mounted £11.50
12x8 £16.50
16x12 £20.00
16x12 Framed £35.00
Panoramic £25.00
Keyring £4.00
Fridge Magnet £5.00


Wallet (4 images) £9.00
Gift Set (2 7x5's, 1 10x8 & 1 Keyring) £25.00
CD (10 images on disc) £30.00

He is normally really busy, with photo prices starting at £8 most people end up buying at least one photo.
 
Vodkagirly said:
Very condesending. Actually I'm a Business Account Manager responsible for £500 million of business in Telecomunications - I don't know much about costs on equine photography, I know a little about profit and loss, and selling lots at a low margin is better than selling nothing at a higher margin.
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hahahahahahaha :D:D
 
yes Santa
why don't you display to the world how cheap you think you can setup and how cheap you can sell prints ... encourage more people to setup and then undercut you .. v clever .. !!! I stick to my original costing using pro bodies and lenses and the best dye sub printers .. multiple viewing screens etc ect ect
 
Horseman said:
yes Santa
why don't you display to the world how cheap you think you can setup and how cheap you can sell prints ... encourage more people to setup and then undercut you .. v clever .. !!! I stick to my original costing using pro bodies and lenses and the best dye sub printers .. multiple viewing screens etc ect ect
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are you this charming a person with your customers? :p
 
Horseman said:
yes Santa
why don't you display to the world how cheap you think you can setup and how cheap you can sell prints ... encourage more people to setup and then undercut you .. v clever .. !!! I stick to my original costing using pro bodies and lenses and the best dye sub printers .. multiple viewing screens etc ect ect
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I'm sorry but in the current climate you have to be prepared to cut costs to maintain a livelihood ALL businesses are experiencing this at the moment from the small one man band to the huge multinationals.

Yes all singing all dancing may be ideal but that set up won't automatically sell extra prints. Photos are a luxury for competitors and what they care about is service and quality AND price. Yes any Tom Dick or Harry can set up selling photos for peanuts BUT if they can't take a good photo they are not going to be successful no matter how cheap they are and will soon slink off again. You shouldn't fear competition you should relish it and strive to improve yourself and your business. You are also now competing with the mums/dads/partners/friends etc who have a decent camera which may not even be a dslr but just a camera capable of taking a by pros standard 'ok' shot. As a pro you have to offer an exceptional shot which comes primarily down to composition and a bit of luck (horses/riders love making faces!) which a rider is going to want at a reasonable price and unfortunately for pros what is considered a 'reasonable' price has decreased. £15-20 for a 9x6 is no longer reasonable if it can't also be copied for non commercial use.

I actually will give an example of what I think lost a pro a lot of money very recently. Last week was the grassroots champs at badminton. One of the pro photographers for the official company was obviously told get a shot with the house in. Yes personally couldn't agree more. BUT the only fence with the house in the background resulted in the photographer having the sun directly in front of him add in it was a bad fence and too cluttered a background and had he taken the standard midair shot that most riders like to buy you wouldn't see the riders head due to a signpost in the way! Me (currently an amateur) and several other very experienced pros taking the fence from the other side were all rather shocked as given the sun on the day being so bright he would be taking very washed out sub quality photos with poor composition. Had I been him with I would have forgotten having the rider over a fence infront of the house and instead moved about 50m to a galloping stretch which put the sun at your side but still with the house behind and only string between the horse and the house. Now I would be pretty confident that a good gallop shot in front of the house would have been more successful. But I can't comment on that as I don't know their sales but I would be amazed if the photos that were taken there came out ok.

Photographers need to enter the 21st century and it is already being shown that the public opinion of those that are are being successful. Those that are ignoring it are suffering and the more they do so the more it will affect their business.

Consider whether it is perhaps more viable not to offer on the day prints so using a third party top quality printer or even no prints at all seeing as we are in the digital age after all!! They are all considerations that should be made dependent on what the customer is asking for.

Personally I will say let the best photographers win and as long as they follow the demand of thei public and restructure their business plans as and when required they will continue to win time and time again.

Good luck to you and I hope your business continues to be successful but I seriously hope your customer facing attitude is not as you display on here as that will lose you customers no matter how good your photos!
 
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