Eventer people! Young horses and showjumping! Help!

Daisychain

Daisychain

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Right i have a nice young horse (rising 7) which i bought in November by Mayhill.

He was pretty green when i bought him, broken late and mainly left out at grass, i purchased him off the field.

He is coming on nicely, he is a sensitive sort and can get tense.

He has a good attitude to his jumping, always willing and can be very atheletic and scopey, but he can also be quite careless at times. My showjump trainer who has ridden him a few times thinks he isnt going to be good enough, and i should get rid as he will always let me down.

The penny doesnt always drop with him, and he can sometimes knock a fence despite knocking it the time before. I feel really i want to keep going with him, because when he does it well he is like a cat and lovely and springy. What do you think?

Here is a link to him jumping last weekend, you can clearly see the good and the bad bits of the 2 rounds. www.midlandsequestrianphotographer.co.uk 13.2.2010 and its page 6 and page 8. I have a black and red coloured jacket on, horse is dark, tall with a white stripe/blaze in his face.

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Sounds a bit like Poppy who had a tendancy to send fences flying. She was frustrating as we won and were well placed BE100 but occasionally we would have 3 or 4 down. I sold her due to ths show jumping.

You can train him to improve but he is unlikely to ever become careful and help you out. If you are prepared to have frustrating days and some good one and you are enjoying it at present then carry on. Just be aware if you do event him and he does have lots of show jumps down he could lose value.
 
I have the same problem
one day i go out and get a double clear
the next day i go out and have 3/4 down

it depends if you can put up with it...
however as mine matured he's starting to leave them up a bit more and respect them but it dosen't happen with all horses

What breed is he? as i know mine is a 'late maturer' as such!
 
Well Mayhill is T.B. and his mother was at least half tb so good 3/4 if not a bit more i should think.

His jumping knowledge is still in its early days, he only really started jumping in December.
 
He still looks very green and his canter between fences looks unbalanced. I'd do lots of gymnastic work with him to improve his balance and technique and work on his canter and approach to the fences.
 
I think your trainers wrong,he is only jumping small at the moment and you have only had him 12 ish weeks and during that time bad weather and xmas.

I had an instructor told me i would never score lower than 40 BE dressage.This i have done numerous times now. I think it is important to listen to advice of instructors but if all they can do is suggest you ditch your horse ditch your instructor.It's not like you are ever going to try and do an intermediate plus....tbh most average horses can get up to pn which i am sure you would be happy with
 
To give him the benefit of the doubt he could still be very weak physically ( espec if he's done nothing until you bought him) - I dont see how people can always expect horses to be absolutely perfect from day one- he has only been jumping what 2 months? that is no time at all..
Also he may need a bigger fence?
E.T.S- I know of horses that were knocking everything down for a good year before becoming strong enough to be carefull - and then they started jumping clear rounds every time.
 
Yes he is very green still! This is his 2nd training show ever! It was more to give him practice of jumping in a strange place etc....

He has huge long legs, which i think he finds hard to coordinate at times.

He does have a habit of sticking his rather long neck in the air, but he has an incredibly sensitive mouth so he can be tricky into a fence at times as he likes to get his head up to look at it.
 
looks alright to me, just a green gangly baby horse who needs to learn how to have better technique. in most of the pics he's giving them plenty of room in front, which is of course good. lots of jumping from trot, possibly some jumping from walk, lots of gridwork, some high X poles to teach him to fold, V poles, diagonal pole over top of oxer, etc.
also, those fences were very small, he doesn't look as though he needs to make any effort to jump that size... some horses don't show good style until the poles go up.
i echo the above, you need a trainer who is positive and encouraging about you and your horse...
 
He does jump bigger at home, around 3ft ish, yes i do think he is still weak to be fair, his last owner/breeder said he was very late to mature.
 
I think he deserves a bit more time before you decide he won't do your job as gather from what you said he is exceptionally 'low milage' for a rising 7yo.

My TB mare was a dangly SJer until last year (8yo) and has really improved, making a v nice shape and either having a CR or 1 down. Before that it was easily 2 or 3.

I like the fact that my main trainer has always been positive about my horses, would not enjoy lessons if I thought he was thinking that horse was no good.

Fiona
 
Yep agreem don't give up on him too soon. He does look weak and immature tbh. I sold my immature 7yr old because he consistenty had poles, and as a result didn't seem to have the scope to go any further. However, with a different approach and a bit of time he is now jumping double clears at 1.05+ Sometimes a bit of maturing and a new approach can do wanders
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Don't give up on him. My grey was an appalling show jumper when I got him. More than capable, but he was fairly weak in his back end and it took me a good year to build the muscles up. Once he was more mature physically (and mentally) he started to go clear (instead of 5 fences down!) and certainly seemed to enjoy it more too. Time and patience...and then see how you go.
 
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also, those fences were very small, he doesn't look as though he needs to make any effort to jump that size... some horses don't show good style until the poles go up.
i echo the above, you need a trainer who is positive and encouraging about you and your horse...

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Ditto boths those points
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I wouldn't sell him yet. As others have said he is still weak. I have a 6 yr old Mayhill and his show jumping was his weak phase last yr ( he was still growing and croup high). This season he looks a different horse and his technique has improved 100%. Another Mayhill we had wasn't physically mature untli he was 8yr old.
 
It is early days and horses can improve, however I would have a concern that his technique in front needs to get a lot better. Quite possibly the market harborough is not helping this as it can make them block their neck which makes it hard for them to pick their knees up cleanly. It looks like he needs to jump a lot from walk and a slow trot so you can take him forward to the fence rather than try to hold him back, this will give him the freedom of his neck that he needs. Cantering over poles on the ground so he learns to keep a rhythm and get confidence should also help. I would jump him quite a bit to start with even if it's only a few jumps most days so it is no big deal. If he is not learning from his mistakes he either lacks confidence or doesn't have a concience so keep an open mind.
 
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I have the same problem
one day i go out and get a double clear
the next day i go out and have 3/4 down

it depends if you can put up with it...


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I could have written this word for word about mine - and I am now debating his future as 4 years of work and he's getting bolder, stronger and more confident but hasn't really developed a conscience!

However I think it is a little early to give up on yours just yet. He looks like a lovely young horse in the pics. Give it a little time and find a good instructor who inspires you.
 
what i think you need to ask yourself is how much do you trust your trainer? generally i agree with the comments above about giving him more time and lots of gymnastic exercises etc...once his flatwork is better he should have a better technique....however, if MY SJ trainer told me my horse wasn't careful enough i would trust her judgement...but then she has jumped at international level and has seen so many different horses you must get a good eye for what is going to make it and what isn't.......
 
Thankyou for your comments everyone.

I do trust my trainer, but she looks for a specific type of animal, as she jumps internationally. He hasnt done much gridwork or anything else at the moment, so i will work on this more.

I just want a nice horse to jump round pre novice really, he is always willing and doesnt stop, in the 2nd page that is the first time he saw xc type fences, and he was happy to oblige.

Oldvic he doesnt have a market harborough on, he has a standing martingale, as he is prone to throwing his head up before the fence, this actually really helps as it avoids you having to use the reins and it slows him down so you can then ride him forward!
 
A quote from Tim Stockdale about another horse similar 'I would also put open fronted boots on (looks like you have all round) he needs to FEEL the fence.' At home only jump wooden poles!

I'm far from an expert so probably completely got the wrong end of the stick but for what is worth

Also agree he needs to get his canter stronger and more balanced. His going into the fence head high means he is hollow. At home when he does this circle him away until he is soft. It make take one circle it may take 30 but he will get the idea. I have done this with my lad in the last 10 days and wow the difference is amazing already. I now only have to circle once when he does it and he knows not to do it again or he doesn't jump ! ! !

As some one else said he may need the fences a bit bigger. But it maybe he is not working from behind so looks like he is not making any effort. I suspect he is not truly going forward, more like on his forehand? sorry if thats incorrect just my thoughts
 
I also think us eventers have to be a bit careful having sj lessons off decent showjumpers/trainers. I bought a young horse that could easily jump 1m40 but sold to me to event as the sj trainer said it was'nt 'top level careful for our job'. Horse was most careful in that phase i had ever known!

Has your trainer advised to sell one before?.....how did that work out?
 
Funny you should mention that.... I had a nice homebred a couple of years ago, which she told me to get rid of because it was gutless....

I did sell her, but not for that reason, last season she had 13 starts B.E. mainly B.E. 100 and was placed in top 10 in 10 of her runs. Never had a xc fault and mainly double clears.
 
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Funny you should mention that.... I had a nice homebred a couple of years ago, which she told me to get rid of because it was gutless....

I did sell her, but not for that reason, last season she had 13 starts B.E. mainly B.E. 100 and was placed in top 10 in 10 of her runs. Never had a xc fault and mainly double clears.

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hmmmmm.
I have come to the conclusion that one's trainer is almost as important as one's borse when it comes to success... I'd be looking for a new trainer!
 
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Thankyou for your comments everyone.

I do trust my trainer, but she looks for a specific type of animal, as she jumps internationally. He hasnt done much gridwork or anything else at the moment, so i will work on this more.

I just want a nice horse to jump round pre novice really, he is always willing and doesnt stop, in the 2nd page that is the first time he saw xc type fences, and he was happy to oblige.

Oldvic he doesnt have a market harborough on, he has a standing martingale, as he is prone to throwing his head up before the fence, this actually really helps as it avoids you having to use the reins and it slows him down so you can then ride him forward!

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Apologies - my mistake. In the picture jumping the blue upright it looks like a M H.
Just bare in mind that in the grand scheme of things, while green he is not that young and like us humans it is always harder to learn something new when older. If he is not spooky about fillers etc you haven't got that tool to help him be more careful which is something to think about for XC. Of course some horses are more careful over fixed fences but dangling forearms and XC are not a great combination.
 
You do say you're not looking to do top class so it really doesn't matter if the horse is not top class, does it?
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(Not insulting your horse, just pointing out that every horse has strengths and weaknesses, some - both - of which may prevent it becoming world beaters but that's good because most people don't need world beaters.)

The "allergic to wood" attitude of top drawer showjumpers is, I think, bred in. Even if the horses take awhile to get organised and strong enough to jump big tracks the willingness to do so has to be there. BUT I really don't think this is the best attitude for any good event horse, especially one for an amateur. Such horses notoriously turn into stoppers (or runners then stoppers) if they are too often put into situations where they have a rail or even a rub. There is a world of difference between a horse that wants to oblige, will jump clear if decently prepared and ridden, and one that will leave them up every time, no matter what and I'm not convinced you - or many people - actually WANT a horse like that, even if does sound attractive.

Have you had a conversation with your coach about why she's saying what she says? I wouldn't worry at all about a horse that's struggling a bit and having a rail when it's trying to figure something out, getting tired etc. but there are cases where I'd be leery of a horse that had fences down in situations where it could easily have left them up.

Same thing with form/style. I do believe a horse needs to show you it CAN jump decently, even if it doesn't in every situation because of greenness, ride or lack of strength. If a horse jumps badly in situations where it shouldn't I tend to worry because weaknesses have a way of showing under stress and I would be concerned that the horse could be made okay at home but would stay unreliable in tough situations. To be honest, I do see quite a few disappointments, even accidents, that happen because people kid themselves that a horse will always jump the same as it can be made to jump when everything is going perfectly under duress and then are shocked when the truth comes out under pressure. What you really want is a horse that jumps safely even at its worst.

But really, that's all personal preference. If YOU like the horse and YOU are willing to persevere and want to improve then it's YOUR choice. Is your trainer just making a comment or constantly pestering you? What are her suggestions for improving the situation? Do you really want to change instruction and this is just becoming a bit of a hot button? Do you think another approach would help the horse or do you think if you say this is the way you're going to continue your current instructor will move forward with you. Would she refer you for a second opinion (good trainers shouldn't be threatened by you seeking one) or is there someone else you could ask? It's a bit like the horse - if you like most of the situation and can change or live with the few things you don't like then weigh up the options and see if it's worth it. If you're generally unsatisfied and think it's not working, it likely won't, if only because the dynamic won't work well.

Oh, I'm back from holiday, folks, dust off your edit buttons.
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Thanks Tarr steps, for your detailed reply.

Right this is what i personally feel, the horse has a lovely springy canter, and the trainer agrees with me on this. I feel he is easy to jump and love his feel into a fence. Sometimes especially when jumping something new he jumps enormous and gives a feeling of real power, almost jumping me out the saddle. When i have replayed these and slo moed them he looks awsome.

But sometimes after a few times, he can be a bit casual. My trainer had him for a few days this last week, to school on, i watched her ride him on the last day and he started off jumping very nicely and then made a small error into a fence, where she promptly seriously bollocked him.

I sort of feel that every time he knocked a fence he would have had what for....

She proceeded to jump a double a few times where he rolled rails off a couple of times. And she basically said he would always let me down.

I personally think he is backward at times, and my gut instinct tells me when he gets the wiring right he will probably jump the moon.

The day the pics were taken apart from a couple of mistakes i was really chuffed with him, then after the training i thought, oh dear....

There is a little feeling that tells me to go on though!
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