Eventers - thoughts

[ihatework]

Would appreciate any thoughts from people who deal with / buy proven event horses.

I part own a 7yo 1* horse. He is a lovely horse with a very good & consistent record. He is however looking like he probably won't run on up the grades and the co-owners are all in agreement that he should be sold to release funds to buy a really classy 3/4yo.

He has been advertised for a couple of months at a reasonably high price. IMO the record justifies this price and we have certainly had calls & viewings at this price.
Essentially the agents involved in viewing the horse have been positive. The clients however have in general not been able to ride him (bar one who was ideal but unfortunately opted for another horse instead).
For his height / type / record his ideal market on paper would be your teenager stepping up from their Intro/PN horse and looking to do JRNs etc.

This horse isn't nasty in any way, shape or form. He doesn't rear/buck/nap etc. He is however a bit sensitive and appreciates someone who can ride in a balanced manner and has a bit of feel if that makes sense. The teenagers we have had, whilst not awful, haven't yet developed that feel and the horse has gone rigid & worried with them. I've ridden the horse myself and am by no means an amazing rider, yet didn't have a problem with him.

So for us as the owners we are completely open to the idea of dropping the price. It is more important to us that he goes to a home where he can do a good job for someone and in doing so free up a stable and some finance for the next hopeful prospect! However it probably won't make much difference as at a lower price we will probably be flooded with hopeful teenagers and you never really know how good they are until they sit on him!

We are at a cross roads whereby do we now turn him away for his holiday and hang onto him and run him at Intermediate next year (which he may/may not keep his clean sheet doing) or do we re-advertise.
If we re-advertise suggestions about how best to do this please!! I can't see him being anything other than an eventer and I do feel that with the right jockey he would be a great PC Open / JRN horse, but how many frogs do we need to kiss to find that jockey?!

Last but not least what might be our chances of exchanging him for a decent 4yo - is there likely to be any reputable dealers that would consider this?

Any other pearls of wisdom?

 

[wench]

Sport horse sales?

 

[ihatework]

Hmmm probably not, too sensitive to have all and sundry hopping on him in that sort of environment.
Plus he's not a jaw dropper, so high risk of lots of upfront fees and no sales. From my experience the 4yos sell best. We had considered Blenheim but glad we didn't in the end as there were no real buyers for the established horses!

 

[Golden_Match_II]

I do think it takes a lot of viewings to sell to the JRN market - we recently tried to sell Ruby (32 points, proven Intermediate) for 13k and had a lot of inappropriate people come to try her. I think between the ages of 14-18 people's riding develops at completely different rates, so some are bound to be better than others.

I wonder whether you could try to readvertise in the spring, or just before the season begins. And maybe you could say negotiable to the right home, so you don't frighten off the people who can ride but have a limited budget?

I think it does just take ages to sell horses, especially when you think highly of them. You should keep holding out, and if you've still got him next season, see how it goes? Sorry not to be more helpful.

As a JRN/PC Open type rider, there are loads of horses out there advertised as JRN horses, so there's a lot for the buyer to look at. If he's been ridden by a pro, this may also put some people who are knowledgable off him, as I've been advised by several u18 BE coaches/coordinators to steer clear of professional's horses.

 

[Matafleur]

Are you using an agent to sell through? I have no experience of this myself but I just wondered if someone like Sophie Martindale (good JRN market) or Uptown may be worth going through? I don't know how costly that is for the seller though.

I would agree that a 7 yr old with good 1* results must be worth a fair bit particularly if relatively straight forward. I personally don't think you'd find a good enough 3/4 yr old through part ex for what you want - unless someone like Vere Phillips was willing to take yours to sell on perhaps?

Sorry - no help!

 

[ihatework]

Thanks guys. Golden_Match if you can't sell a 32 point Intermediate horse for 13K then we have no hope with ours, he is currently advertised significantly higher (although like I say we might need to seriously reconsider the price tag)

I think he is that tricky middle market - Not good enough for a true professional, yet not push button enough for the majority of teenagers. I'm pretty confident we would have sold him for decent money if he could be ridden by an average teenager.

We are more than happy to use an agent and pay commission. He is currently on uptowns books, and the one very good viewing (a teenager incidentally) came via them. We have also had another couple of fairly big name agents see him and show clients.

He has been produced by an U25 lightweight female, but she is now professional (wasn't when she first got him) and is a seriously good rider.

What will be, will be I suppose. We have been joking it's often the ones that you can't sell that make it to Badminton!!!

 

[Golden_Match_II]

Ruby's actually quite similar - she's older so that's why she's worth less. Professionally produced and a bit quirky, so not a push button. I think it sounds like you're giving yourself the best chance possible being with Uptown - maybe try Verdina Sports Horses too, as I know several of my friends have viewed through them. It's a difficult market to sell to, and we've decided to just keep Ruby and see what happens, but we're in a very different situation.

Good luck with it. I would say if you really think he's a nice horse, then keep advertising - at some point the right person will come along. I wonder whether adults get put off by the advertising of horses strictly as JRN - maybe check that the advert's worded to appeal to ambitious amateurs too?

 

[philamena]

I would agree re ensuring the focus on JRN in the ad doesn't risk alienating the amateur adult market - though whether there's more money in the JRN market for a horse of his type who's at that level by that age...?

 

[ihatework]

He actually isn't pitched as a JRN in the advert at all, thinking behind that being to keep market open as he would be a decent competitive amateur horse too.
We debated whether we should be directing soley towards juniors or leave it open. As it is the responses/viewings have been JRNs for all but a couple.

 

[popsdosh]

He actually isn't pitched as a JRN in the advert at all, thinking behind that being to keep market open as he would be a decent competitive amateur horse too.
We debated whether we should be directing soley towards juniors or leave it open. As it is the responses/viewings have been JRNs for all but a couple.

You are really up against it in the JRN market as most are looking for very good established intermediates or advanced horses as their oportunity at that level is so short for the rider they are not looking to bring on youngsters.

 

[racingdemon]

Does the advert/his form give the impression he would be a good/safe horse for the ambitious amatuer? i breifly toyed with buying a more experianced horse (bought a hopefully very talented 4yo instead) but one thing that i was put off by was that the horses for sale were either Pro horses, or were at about thier limit with 1*, I'm a hell of way off being a serious event rider, but what ever i was buying, i didnt want to feel like it was buying its limit, if that makes sense?

 

[ihatework]

I think you have a point about buying the limit, I think the advert has possibly given that impression (picked up by another poster on here that has been very helpful via PM), so that will be tweaked.
The advert doesn't however read as though he is a pros ride only (he isn't by any stretch, just a decent amateur).
He is untried at Intermediate, although was DC at his only IN & 1* starts.

I think we have decided, one last try at selling now, tweaked advert, 4k off the price and see what happens. If not we will keep and likely get him out Intermediate next year.

 

[oldvic]

You are really up against it in the JRN market as most are looking for very good established intermediates or advanced horses as their oportunity at that level is so short for the rider they are not looking to bring on youngsters.

Agree with this. Also if you are buying a horse for 1* it needs to be capable and happy to jump round intermediates even if it has some confidence boosting novice runs in between. It sounds like a rider that is balanced and able enough for your horse is going to be more ambitious than him. While he is fit and going I would school him over some intermediate fences and see his reaction. That would give you an idea of whether he will do that or if you have overpriced him. Record isn't the only factor when determining price, ability and future also comes into it. I suspect that your rider would have been keen to run him at intermediate this autumn if she felt he was up for it - not too much for a 7yr old.

 

[popsdosh]

I think you have a point about buying the limit, I think the advert has possibly given that impression (picked up by another poster on here that has been very helpful via PM), so that will be tweaked.
The advert doesn't however read as though he is a pros ride only (he isn't by any stretch, just a decent amateur).
He is untried at Intermediate, although was DC at his only IN & 1* starts.

I think we have decided, one last try at selling now, tweaked advert, 4k off the price and see what happens. If not we will keep and likely get him out Intermediate next year.

Hate to say it but a waste of time IMO to lop lumps off price as the people interested will have already seen him and will only assume they were correct in the first place. It is also the dead time of year to sell as the people you are aiming at will already have bought for next season or will wait until new year now. Also I woul;d say you need to decide wether you advertise privately or use an agent its not easy to do both as the agents generally dont like it.

 

[Sb2]

I think to advertise a horse saying it has limited ability& won't do any better, and then to put a big price tag on it - that really is not going to attract any decent buyers or riders!! At the end of the day your opinion of the horse is only yours/ the riders opinion, just because you all think it's just an average horse doesn't mean that other people won't think the same. I'm sure many lesser horses have gone further & achieved great things,& many a lesser horse has been sold for more money as the sellers won't have been putting the horse down so much. Publically saying a horse is at its limit- well that would just kill the dream for anyone & put people right off. That is for the buyer themselves to decide.

 

[HeresHoping]

Please p.m. the details. I know of a teenager looking for her next step up and Daddy has a bit of money to spend on the right horse. She is regularly competing BE100 and won at Little Downham last time out. However, she's 5'10 and her current horse is only 15.1.5 and her legs are getting in the way a bit. She's not ready for intermediate, but I can see her certainly going to his level in the next couple of years. She is schooling Novice plus.

Many thanks,

 

[ihatework]

You are right sb2, I think we may have given that impression (unintentionally).
Rider is in it for high end Advanced, which he probably isn't. But he hasn't necessarily reached his limit at Novice/1*,

Running him at Intermediate this Autumn was discussed. It was a gamble either way - don't run and keep his strong record but chance people thinking he won't make the step up. Or run and either prove he can or have a minor young horse blip and then put the doubt in people's minds that he can't!

I think maybe the crux is the wording of the advert gives the impression he is maxed out at Novice, so we need to change that.

I've suggest on the back of oldvic that we get him out schooling over Intermediate fences.

It's not the end if the world if he doesn't sell. He is fit, sound & genuine so we will have some fun with him next spring and re-evaluate

 

[ihatework]

PS - most helpful thread for us, thanks to everyone for taking time to reply

 

[Sb2]

What about taking some video of him doing some BSJA foxhunter & schooling over B.E Intermediate XC fences? & put both videos on the advert- to give people the confidence that he can do Intermediate / * .

 

[popsdosh]

What about taking some video of him doing some BSJA foxhunter & schooling over B.E Intermediate XC fences? & put both videos on the advert- to give people the confidence that he can do Intermediate / * .

Video of him schooling over int fences means nothing to a purchaser ,most novice horses would!
People want to see proof they can over a course.
If he was mine and I have had several, I would leave him solely with an agent at this time and accept that maybe you need to get him out intermediate early part of next year.
Putting my purchasers hat on if the pro was worried that you may create a blip on his record by running him intermediate this autumn it suggests to me that they do not think the horse will step up.
Most pro riders would have moved up long ago if they thought the horse was capable and worked on any blips that occurred. Why was he not run around an int track after an event most will accomodate if you ask.
You must also consider the cost of keeping him in full work to sell if you are not sure he will at this time

 

[Firewell]

Everything sells at the right price! At the end of the day he's a solid Novice horse and they are in demand. I also think it's a tough time of year to sell, kids off to Uni, parents trying to sell their horses before Christmas and all that.
If he was mine I would take him off the market and try again in Febuary. I'd re-evaluate the advert and make sure it's red hot and appeals to adult ammys as well as teenagers and I would drop the price. The perfect person is out there for him!

 

[MagicMelon]

I think a lot of horses go into the JRN market - essentially the ones who are really good amateur-type horses but not quite good enough for the serious stuff. I had an absolutely perfect JRN type horse a few years ago and never got him sold. Have you pitched him as a JRN / PC Open / RC Open horse in your advert? But if you pitch him at this you need to price him accordingly. No point pricing him too high indicating he had potential to go higher (which it doesnt sound like he will).

Also try selling him in the spring - always a far better market. You could spend the winter doing other things with him like getting BS or BD winnings under his belt.

 

[Goldenstar]

My pearls of wisdom on this are FWIW are the well into novice but not proven at intermediate is the hardest time to sell horse .
And I once bought the SJ version of your horse very keenly priced because like yours she did not go well for teenagers .

 

[noname]

Yep, agree you've got to be very careful re your wording. Too me, your making him sound a bit quirky (not a schoolmaster either) when he's probably not!!! Maybe he's more your ambitious amateur market, assuming they have some body control!

 

[TableDancer]

Lots of good advice already, which you've picked up on. The only thing I would add is that I don't think your choice is to sell now or keep till next season and try Int, I think readvertising in February (ish, basically at the first sign of approaching spring 2015!) as fit and aring to go would be a good option: I find selling at that time of year is a whole different ballgame, with people who didn't want to keep a horse over the winter and/or were looking to pick up bargains at this time of year suddenly desperate to find something for the approaching season!

I think G_M made lots of sensible comments which I agree with. I think you will have to be patient because it will be difficult to differentiate between right and wrong jockeys, but the right teenager is probably out there.

 

[MS123]

Also agree with TD above RE keeping him until February and re-advertising! He sounds like a lovely horse OP!