Eventers - who's fault is this.

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canteron

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Talking about people who event at a high level. Recently someone was eliminated during the dressage phase for not wearing spurs (CCI**).

Obviously ultimately it is the riders fault, but would you have expected the steward to have picked up on that before you went in for your test?

Just curious after hearing conversations afterwards, ie is the general standard of stewarding high enough.
 
Their fault entirely. It's my job as a steward to get them to the right arena at the right time. If I notice they're wearing the wrong stuff I'll say, but as adults (or considered grown up enough to compete at that level!) I fully expect them be able to know and follow the rules.

I generally do notice stuff and will remind people to remove bandages/ drop whip/ point out the pro riding multiple horses has the wrong bridle in (he was very funny!) and things like that. But after that it's up to them...
 
Rider's responsibility.

I nearly got elim in a 2* for the same reason (as a very green 18year old with non-horsey parents!) Luckily the dressage judge was kind enough to warn me and a lovely pro rider leant me his whilst he was warming up. Sadly they were great big long spiky things and my horse kicked up quite an argument!!
 
I've been a dressage steward at BE a few times and I have never been told to check the horses tack or riders attire.
 
Interesting replies, especially The Mule.

In this instance the judge (a well known hardliner) eliminated the rider. It was queried at the highest level and the judge's response was to rant about the stewards and how it they should have picked it up.

(A nicer judge would have given the person a minute to put some on? Or would the other competitors have objected?).
 
If they did the test and the judge noticed halfway through, totally the rider's fault- the judge shouldn't have blamed anyone but the rider (and shouldn't have had to justify herself to anyone- them's the rules... Learn them!).
 
It is ALWAYS the riders responsibility to use the right equipment. IF there is a tack steward then they will often check after the test rather than disturb the riding in before. At CCIs there is usually a tack check but not always. At CICs there are at the big ones but less likely at 1* and 2*. The judges will keep an eye on what is being used and, if they notice before the test starts, will allow the rider to correct it provided it can be done quickly. It is not fair to the other riders to delay too long and it is not always possible to see before the test starts as you must keep to time.
What makes you think that the steward should be responsible?
 
ldlp111 said:
Why do you 'have' to wear spurs? :)
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Cos it's in the rules.

Lolo said:
If they did the test and the judge noticed halfway through, totally the rider's fault- the judge shouldn't have blamed anyone but the rider (and shouldn't have had to justify herself to anyone- them's the rules... Learn them!).
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Absolutely right! A steward is only there to guide. They are not there as nanny.
 
ldlp111 said:
Why do you 'have' to wear spurs? :)[/QUOte
[/B]

Because it is traditionally considered "correct" attire to wear them (as for hunting/showing),
& also it shows that the rider can use them properly, ie only coming into contact with the horses side intentionally, proving a secure, independant seat....in an ideal world of course!.

Unfortunately , totally the riders responsibility, the stewards are usually volunteers, who may or may not be up to date with the rules, but it is not officially part of their duties, tho' most do try to help.
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I wasn't riding ( a Cross Pole is more my thing) but stewarding a different section.

I was suprised the Judge eliminated them - I personally thought that was quite tough, but even more suprised that the Judge thought the Stewards were to blame.

I completely forgive the rider for being upset, riding in any competiton nerves can get to you.
 
quizzie said:
ldlp111 said:
Why do you 'have' to wear spurs? :)[/QUOte
[/B]

Because it is traditionally considered "correct" attire to wear them (as for hunting/showing),
& also it shows that the rider can use them properly, ie only coming into contact with the horses side intentionally, proving a secure, independant seat....in an ideal world of course!.

Unfortunately , totally the riders responsibility, the stewards are usually volunteers, who may or may not be up to date with the rules, but it is not officially part of their duties, tho' most do try to help.
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Thanks for explaining :) So do you have to wear them for the other phases as well :confused::)
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I was present when a steward had a strip torn of her for not telling a rider to,remove the flash they had warmed up in ( on a double bridle) it was like the rider had no roll in it at all.
I used to steward affiliated dressage ( long time ago now) and was given a sheet of what to check for I was terrified to get it wrong I found it very hard work I did six rings at once different levels it was a nightmare.
But as I say it was along time ago and it's my understanding it's up to the rider to get it right.
 
At the end of the day, the "contract" is with the rider so any and all breaches of the rules are their responsibility. Officials in general are not nannies, they are there to make sure people follow the rules, not to make sure they know them or to prevent them from breaking them.

I watched in horror once as a friend of mine rode down the centre line at a CCI with her horse's boots still on!! Obviously the groom should have jumped in front of her on the way down but by the time the judge noticed she'd entered at A and that was that. :(

I'll confess I rode into the ring once with my whip. :eek: Luckily it was torrential rain and I doubt the judge could see me, let alone my illegal whip, when I entered so I managed to drop it before X. The worst bit was it was a lovely German made one I'd spent crazy money on and I could hardly go to the office and ask if anyone had turned it in! :D

They don't seem to do tack check here, correct? The dressage standard now (FEI and in North America) is to check AFTER the test, as people complained doing it prior upset the horses at a sensitive juncture, so if you come out and are found in severe contravention of the rules, you'll still be eliminated. It's pretty much moot since, aside from bits, judges are likely to notice anything obvious.
 
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Thanks for explaining :) So do you have to wear them for the other phases as well :confused::)[/QUOTE]

No ,you only have to wear them for higher levels of eventing dressage, not for SJ/XC, & if your horse doesn't like spurs, you can use "dummy" ones with no protruding shank to minimise the effect!
 
They would have to be eliminated. There are some rules where elimination is discretionary but this is not one. Another rider could complain that they would prefer no spurs even though spurs with no shank are allowed.
 
Goldenstar said:
I was present when a steward had a strip torn of her for not telling a rider to,remove the flash they had warmed up in ( on a double bridle) it was like the rider had no roll in it at all.
I used to steward affiliated dressage ( long time ago now) and was given a sheet of what to check for I was terrified to get it wrong I found it very hard work I did six rings at once different levels it was a nightmare.
But as I say it was along time ago and it's my understanding it's up to the rider to get it right.
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If someone tore into me for not noticing, they'd be a steward short for the rest of my shift... I will do my best to notice (I managed to spot someone had a copper roller snaffle in once!) but it is NOT my job- I get them to the right arena at the right time, and will remind them of any obvious rule breakers... It is 100% the rider's responsibility.

That makes me almost unnecessarily angry :O
 
I managed to stop someone going in to do a BE100 test in a beagler the other week. I was going into the adjacent arena to do a Nov test so couldn't swap hats (and I also had a beagler on anyway :o) but a nearby pro obligingly swapped with the rider for the duration of the test. I've also pointed out bit rings to people who were completely oblivious.

Rules is rules. An expensive mistake but I'd warrant they'll only make it once!
 
Riders fault.

Every time you compete its up to you to check that your tack and attire falls within the rules. Having paid out that much for entries you would have thought a quick read through of the rules would have been wise. I'm possibly doing a eventer trial at the week end and it says in the small print no xc colours so I'm going to ask when I walk the course whats acceptable, its not up to the stewards to pull me up for anything not blindingly obvious.
 
It does seem quite harsh to eliminate the rider though, maybe just give them penalties? I know I have forgotten to do things before, I've ridden into the arena in bandages or boots, luckily I had a nice judge on these occassions who stopped me and let me take them off before starting the test. I nearly always compete alone so have no one to remind me and even though I know your horse shouldn't wear boots/bandages for a test you can get so caught up in warming up, nerves etc that it is easy to forget that horse is wearing them! (One of my horses plaits behind so I always warm him up in boots). I have also forgotten to drop my whip in an eventing dressage test before, this time no one told me until after I'd finished, I hadn't used it at all but the steward informed me I would probably be eliminated, I was very upset as my horse had just done a great test, spent the rest of the day worrying if they'd eliminate me or not, in the end they didn't and it made no difference to final scores as we screwed up cross country anyway! Shorty after I was at the riding club dressage champs and realised I'd forgotten to drop the darn whip again so flung it on the floor shortly after starting my test (when I realised!) I'm not sure if the judge didn't notice or decided to let me off. So fair enough it is the riders responsibility to know and remember the rules but any stewards noticing things we've missed and telling us are greatly appreciated!
 
Only time I have ever paid much attention to anything BE dressage stewarding is when the beagler rule changed over. Not my job, if rider doesn't know the rules, tough!
 
unfortunately its the riders fault for not paying attention to detail! Its daft really but I guess rules are rules and if they werent upheld it wouldnt be fair on those who had stuck by them even if it was to their detriment.

Theres been a few times at (pure) dressage comps where I have politely warned people about not using their using grackles if they want to avoid a E!
 
Paint it Lucky said:
It does seem quite harsh to eliminate the rider though, maybe just give them penalties? I know I have forgotten to do things before, I've ridden into the arena in bandages or boots, luckily I had a nice judge on these occassions who stopped me and let me take them off before starting the test. I nearly always compete alone so have no one to remind me and even though I know your horse shouldn't wear boots/bandages for a test you can get so caught up in warming up, nerves etc that it is easy to forget that horse is wearing them! (One of my horses plaits behind so I always warm him up in boots). I have also forgotten to drop my whip in an eventing dressage test before, this time no one told me until after I'd finished, I hadn't used it at all but the steward informed me I would probably be eliminated, I was very upset as my horse had just done a great test, spent the rest of the day worrying if they'd eliminate me or not, in the end they didn't and it made no difference to final scores as we screwed up cross country anyway! Shorty after I was at the riding club dressage champs and realised I'd forgotten to drop the darn whip again so flung it on the floor shortly after starting my test (when I realised!) I'm not sure if the judge didn't notice or decided to let me off. So fair enough it is the riders responsibility to know and remember the rules but any stewards noticing things we've missed and telling us are greatly appreciated!
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To be fair, though, the rider mentioned is in a CCI**!

I'm sure if a steward notices something obvious and has the time and attention to mention it at the pertinent moment (they obviously aren't going to be telling people warming up to remember this or that when their times come) then that's nice of them but I can see why they don't get into the habit, because then people will rely on it.

Unaff is a different matter. I have certainly, as a judge, mentioned things to people before I ring the bell as I feel it's still a learning environment and lots of people are there because they aren't experienced to remember everything they need to do under stress. But by the time a rider gets to FEI level they should know the rules.
 
But even at unaff. and low level stuff it's up to the rider to know the rules. For example, Al's had run ins because she rides Reg with a neckstrap and it is allowed within both PC and BE rules but lots of people think it's not. She knows the rules so stands her ground.

A rulebook costs nothing- you can download them for free for every discipline for every society it seems... The level at which you compete is neither here nor there.
 
Oh, absolutely! But if people are obviously stressed and inexperienced most judges/officials are more on the lookout. I've actually had "discussions" with the parent's of kids where the kid knew the rules better and the parents were encouraging them to do/wear the wrong thing!
 
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