Eventing a barefoot horse... Possible? Safe?

Topaz Tiger

Topaz Tiger

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Hi guys
Been thinking about this for a while.
I have a horse that I have just stepped up to novice with.
I use Equi-pak during the summer as she can get footy on hard ground.
I'm hoping to be competitive at novice, next year aim to do a couple of 1* and then an intermediate eventually.....
I think occasionally about taking her shoes off, but I'm not convinced its safe to try to event consistantly and competitively at this level, with all the different types of ground you need to run on.
Has anyone any thoughts/experiences on this?
Many thanks TT :D
 
There are interesting thoughts on this, including the idea that, if you need to stud to be safe, how much pressure are you putting on the legs from the studs, if ordinarily a horse would slip in the going? Plenty of horses both event and hunt barefoot, so I would think that for most horses eventing to that level would be fine, but you may not be able to compete over all ground conditions. But maybe that is overall much better for your horse....? Just being devil's advocate.
 
I went to Novice with two and I used to go fast cross country :D I also took another two to BE90 and another one to BE100. I went in all ground conditions and had no problems, but you might drop a point or two on a slick dry dressage arena because of not being able to power around a grass arena with no studs in.

Tom Robinson had an advanced horse about 7-8 years ago that was barefoot because they could not keep it sound in shoes.

There is someone who has a number of Intermediates, I am having trouble remembering her name, sorry.
 
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I would always stud up to event- particularly if you are looking to go Intermediate.

I compromise and take their shoes off for 4-6 months over the winter months and then shoes go back on when they are fit for xc schooling or if they start to get footy.

Not only for safety but eventing is expensive enough without getting there and realising you don't feel safe on the xc and have to pull up or the horse stepping on a stone and going sore before the dressage- I know some horses are fine barefoot on all ground but the conditioning/feeding/lifestyle can be very hard to get right, particularly when working a horse at that level.
 
I never have understood the safety argument for studs. I jump more difficult and much bigger stuff out hunting than I ever did eventing in all sorts of ground conditions and no-one studs to hunt.

I would not recommend anyone to event (or hunt) a barefoot horse which cannot walk across very big stones without the stones screaming out for mercy.
 
I think the difference being out hunting is you're never going to get serious accuracy questions, such as isolated skinnies or corners off turns. You need to be bang on for them and if your horse slips round the corner then you're compromised going into the fence. That's in my experience of hunting at least where there were accuracy questions as such but these were very narrow gaps, wire, etc- but nothing as an isolated fence, but usually part of a hedge or fenceline...

What does your farrier think?
 
I judged a working hunter class two weeks ago. The going was good / good to soft and a decent cover of grass, however the ground did cut on take off and landing (as it would in any event BE SJ phase that catered for 30 plus horses) Two horses competed barefoot - and both got into trouble slipping on take off, one poor horse fell through the jump and had to be led from the ring very very lame. No other horses had any problems.

If I had my way I would introduce a rule that forbade barefoot in any jumping class. It is simply unsafe for both horse and rider. I agreenwithbthe previous post, re leaving shoes off when your eventer has his winter break and being properly shod to compete.

That's my recent experience anyway - hope it is useful in helping you make a decision.
 
Lolo said:
I think the difference being out hunting is you're never going to get serious accuracy questions, such as isolated skinnies or corners off turns. You need to be bang on for them and if your horse slips round the corner then you're compromised going into the fence. That's in my experience of hunting at least where there were accuracy questions as such but these were very narrow gaps, wire, etc- but nothing as an isolated fence, but usually part of a hedge or fenceline...

What does your farrier think?
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You don't hunt with my packs :D

Farrier? Sorry, who needs a farrier :D ?
 
Bestdogdash said:
I judged a working hunter class two weeks ago. The going was good / good to soft and a decent cover of grass, however the ground did cut on take off and landing (as it would in any event BE SJ phase that catered for 30 plus horses) Two horses competed barefoot - and both got into trouble slipping on take off, one poor horse fell through the jump and had to be led from the ring very very lame. No other horses had any problems.

If I had my way I would introduce a rule that forbade barefoot in any jumping class. It is simply unsafe for both horse and rider. I agreenwithbthe previous post, re leaving shoes off when your eventer has his winter break and being properly shod to compete.

That's my recent experience anyway - hope it is useful in helping you make a decision.
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This is not a problem that I ever experienced. Perhaps the riders were themselves nervous of their horses being barefoot or did not have them properly balanced into their fences or perhaps they were just rubbish showjumpers and happened also to be the only two barefoot horses in the class. There are masses of people now doing up to BE100 with horses with no shoes on, it would be grossly unfair to ban them. I never felt any less safe on any of my 5 eventers or any of the horses that I have hunted barefoot. My current horse jumps 6 ft hedges from all ground conditions, some with phenomenal drops on them, some with desperate turns before or after them to avoid trees, rivers, wire fences, some with takeoffs across the diagonal of serious uphill or downhill slopes. I have never noticed any difference competing a barefooter from a shod horse except in a hard dry dressage arena.
 
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cptrayes said:
I never have understood the safety argument for studs. I jump more difficult and much bigger stuff out hunting than I ever did eventing in all sorts of ground conditions and no-one studs to hunt.

I would not recommend anyone to event (or hunt) a barefoot horse which cannot walk across very big stones without the stones screaming out for mercy.
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Its actually more the show jumping I would worry about than the xc with all of the turning and the same track getting cut up and slippery if it rains a lot.

Also, regardless of who you hunt with I would be extremely impressed if you faced any line with the same quick and turning questions a technical Intermediate combination can throw at you.

Having my horses' shoes off through the winter I have ridden them barefoot, shod and studded and, mine at least, definitely have more grip studded than barefoot (and more grip barefoot than shoes with no studs).
 
Thanks for your answers guys.
It is my kind of thinking, like millitiger, that there are enough problems getting a horse fit and sound to an event without having an avoidable problem with the ground when you get there.
I spoke to my osteopath about it, as he works with some serious endurance horses and he said the top ones are all shod as they can't afford to step on a stone and then be out.
I also spoke to my vet and he said if you are unshod, you've got to accept that you will lose part of the year to the ground conditions or the foot wearing faster than it grows. At this point I thought there are enough other things that stop me eventing, without adding this into the mix. However he then went on to say that in his experience, people with unshod horses noticed problems before they became more serious, unlike potentially a shod horse........
So I'm going to take my horses shoes off at the end of the event season and see where it takes me. I've seen unshod horses slipping when shod horses didn't, but I also am in some level unhappy that there isn't a better way of competing our horses without nailing steel to their feet.
However there is an awful lot we do to our horses that isn't natural and perhaps at best it's a compromise and we have to accept that some of what we do is detrimental to the horse.
Despite all of this if I felt I couldn't be effective/safe/competitive at novice/1*/intermediate I would put shoes/equipak on again immediately.
I think I'm most likely to take her shoes off over the winter and then put them back on for the event season.....
 
I'm very anti studs they do more damage than I think we realise. I have a very good young mare at 1*/int level that goes without studs in front (or road studs if just rained on slippy grass) and just small back studs in, I don't go fast on her though just yet as she is only 6 but never have a problem slipping even round a course that had just been rained on, she is very exuberant and worry she will get jarred in front with studs in, she'd probably be fine without shoes i'm not quite brave enough to try! Have another horse on yard who won't even jump with studs in yet is amazing without them! (he has had foot problems so goes to show how studs can make a situation worse) However a have a few others that aren't so good on their feet and must have studs in at all times! It depends on horse I guess!
 
I may be wrong but i think the stallion Internet (who competed at 4* here before being sold to USA) used to event barefoot in New Zealand whilst I was grooming out there.
 
I had a 16.3 tb who was shod, and jumped 3ft xc without studs in very happily. He never slipped skidded or tripped up, even when having a tantrum and running off with me/running out at a fence at the last minute. He had hunted a lot as a youngster without studs.

Conversely ex pros horse needed studs. Mind he was very clumsy and more likely to trip over anyway
 
Topaz Tiger said:
I spoke to my osteopath about it, as he works with some serious endurance horses and he said the top ones are all shod as they can't afford to step on a stone and then be out.
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Properly conditioned barefoot horses would not be "out" because they trod on a stone. Stones scream for mercy when my horses tread on them.

Topaz Tiger said:
I also spoke to my vet and he said if you are unshod, you've got to accept that you will lose part of the year to the ground conditions or the foot wearing faster than it grows.
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Your vet is talking utter crap. I suggest you talk next time to someone who knows about barefoot horses in hard work. I don't lose a day with my hunter and I never lost a day with my eventers.

Topaz Tiger said:
However he then went on to say that in his experience, people with unshod horses noticed problems before they became more serious, unlike potentially a shod horse........
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Oh good, he does talk a bit of sense then.





Do what you feel is safest for you. It is not safe to ride a horse eventing if you are afraid that it will slip, because that communicates itself to the horse. So even if the only reason to shoe and stud is because it makes you feel confident, then it's still a good enough reason to do it. Better safe than sorry.
 
millitiger said:
Also, regardless of who you hunt with I would be extremely impressed if you faced any line with the same quick and turning questions a technical Intermediate combination can throw at you.
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Timber off a right angle turn from 15 ft wide smooth tarmac road. And vice versa. Fences/hedges followed by precipitous plunges with ruts on them as well. Fences/hedges at the bottom of precipitous plunges with ruts in them, sometimes so steep they can only be taken by coming down the slope on an angle. Often with trees or wire in the way of the landing requiring a massive change of direction while also plunging downhill. Big hedges off a 10 yard headland and landing onto another with an immediate 90 degree turn because of growing crops. Double gates set to the distances a farmer wants, not the right striding for the horse. Into and out of streams with a wild scramble down a loose bank and up the other side. Narrow fences where trees or posts will take your knees given half a chance.

That and more and all with a horse which is also trying to cut corners/jump wire/duck under tree branches to keep up with the field master.

Far worse than I ever encountered at Novice eventing with its nicely prepared take-offs and landings. Much cheaper, and more fun too :D
 
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Like ElleJS I don't use front studs and only small studs behind as I don't like the jarring effect of studs. Only time my horse has slipped is at one event that had hard ground with a wet slippy layer of grass on top making it like an ice rink. There was barely a horse all day that didn't slip!

I would not like the prospect of eventing barefoot and i think it is quite telling that someone I know who likes all her horses barefoot effectively 'admitted defeat' last year and has had her novice horses shod behind so she can use studs as she was experiencing far too many problems slipping.

I won't say its not possible but I think you would have to be very aware of the ground conditions (as you should anyway ;) ) and so pick and choose more carefully where you run.
 
Santa_Claus said:
I think you would have to be very aware of the ground conditions (as you should anyway ;) ) and so pick and choose more carefully where you run.
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I didn't. I ran in whatever the conditions were on the day. Maybe I'm just nuts but I know I'm not alone, I'm just the only one posting on this thread tonight.



Santa-Claus are you really saying that your friend shoes behind but not in front? What a fabulous way to unbalance a horse and overload the forehand, make its front legs half an inch shorter than the back ones :(
 
Bestdogdash said:
I judged a working hunter class two weeks ago. The going was good / good to soft and a decent cover of grass, however the ground did cut on take off and landing (as it would in any event BE SJ phase that catered for 30 plus horses) Two horses competed barefoot - and both got into trouble slipping on take off, one poor horse fell through the jump and had to be led from the ring very very lame. No other horses had any problems.

If I had my way I would introduce a rule that forbade barefoot in any jumping class. It is simply unsafe for both horse and rider. I agreenwithbthe previous post, re leaving shoes off when your eventer has his winter break and being properly shod to compete.

That's my recent experience anyway - hope it is useful in helping you make a decision.
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Thats a very broad ban for some thing that causes no issues for plenty of horses, mine included who is only 14.2 and currently schools up to 1m and competes at 90cm with out any problems with ground conditions. And I'm no bf taliban I just wont spend that much money on some thing he genuinley doesnt need.

As for the OP at that level I'm not sure it would depend on the horse and how balanced they were. In your situation I'd take them off at the end of the season and see how you go, you may find your horse is fine without and you dont notice the diffrence you may find that he isnt and you want them on for the season. Maybe have a go schooling and then round a pc track or something to see how you find it before deciding if you want them back on for the season.
 
Yes she does. I wouldn't but her choice!

Can I ask we're you competitive with yours barefoot ie were you able to make the time ok place etc? It's just I can see a barefoot horse completing safety but seriously struggling to reach the time as lacking the grip to find those few faster gears.
 
I know The Mule, who was competitive at Novice (placings) and ran intermediate with her mare found that over the bigger tracks her horse slipped and lost confidence. She keeps her unshod though and does BSJA v competitively instead now.
 
i never evented barefoot, but did do some unaff sj on one horse, up to 1.10m on grass and with a wide variety of appalling course building so mad turns and dodgy angles etc. He slipped no more than a shod un-studded horse, but did slip a bit more than a studded horse. He was rock crushing sound on all surfaces too.

I think it would be interesting to see the BE record of these barefoot horses, as the proof is there on paper if they are making the times etc, and would be easy to compare to other horses on the same day to know if time was generally hard to get etc.
 
I would be of the belief that eventing a horse barefoot is possible and in a lot of circumstances relatively safe. I am actually not averse to barefoot competing (although I don't myself, yet) as I do think hammering a hunk of metal onto your horses feet is potentially detrimental to their long term soundness. I also dislike studding unless really necessary and would always choose to stud as minimal as possible for the conditions.

That said, if you intend to event barefoot I do think you have to bear in mind that the bigger you go the more difficult/unsafe it will become and that you may have to miss some runs as a result. I know a couple of people who evented barefoot who eventually resorted to shoes/studs due to slipping issues (one actually fell on the flat).

Also bare in mind that some strong and vocal advocates of barefoot competing may have done it, but maybe the actual performance was not that great .....

OP it sounds like you are fairly realistic/sensible about it, take shoes off now, see how you go. You csan always shoe for summer competing and barefoot for winter/fittening, might be a good compromise.
 
Santa_Claus said:
Yes she does. I wouldn't but her choice!

Can I ask we're you competitive with yours barefoot ie were you able to make the time ok place etc? It's just I can see a barefoot horse completing safety but seriously struggling to reach the time as lacking the grip to find those few faster gears.
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My record is under my logon name on BE The last season of Quick Brew and Tea for Two were barefoot and everything from then on. Only one of those horses, Tea and Two Sugars, was a TB, the rest were all middleweights. Only Tea for Two and Quick Brew were experienced, the others were babies which I taught from scratch barefoot so time was not my priority. Tea for Two's clear at Henbury was particularly interesting as the ground was dire and people with studs in were coming off the course telling others about to go how slippery it was. You also need to know that I am a lousy showjumper! Tea for Two retired with spavins and all the others were sold, except Vulgaus Majistralis who made it perfectly clear on his first outing that he had no intention of becoming an eventer and was converted to dressage :D

If you are that competitive then you will miss studs on BE dressage arenas where you will almost certainly lose a point or two being unable to power around a corner without studs on given the "quality" of typical BE arenas. I also think that psychologically you would probably miss them cross country, and that would communicate to the horse and you would probably not push quite so fast even if the horse could do it.

To be honest, if winning is the most important thing to a competitor, then studs are probably a must.

There is now a PhD thesis which was done by a farrier which indicates that slipping is a vital mechanism for releasing excess stress on the horse's joints. He concluded that studs risk damaging joints, possibly also shoes, and is one of the small band of farriers who think studs should not be used.

Whether that places winning in a different light depends on the owner and rider I guess.
 
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Thinking about it, there have been 3 occasions where I have seen a barefoot horse (riders very proud of the fact, it was the main topic of the commentator notes...) and every time I have seen them be elim or retired due to slipping/stopping because they loose confidence in the ground... not a great advert for it :(
 
Well personally if I know my horse can be competitive with studs and the performance suffers without then shoes and studs stay. A drop in performance is a drop in performance and looking from your record you went from close to or making the time to being regulary up to a minute over the time on one horse in particular.

As said I use only the smallest studs I can get away with behind only and always two in each foot as i agree the slip infront is essetial and I would like to think my horse is pretty darn sound. Ultimately the best thing for a horse is to be barefoot wild and not ridden but that would be no fun for us riders. ;) Welfare of my horse is paramount always has and always will be but I'm not keen to be an also ran!

Ps sounds like you like a cup of tea! ;)
 
Santa_Claus said:
Well personally if I know my horse can be competitive with studs and the performance suffers without then shoes and studs stay. A drop in performance is a drop in performance and looking from your record you went from close to or making the time to being regulary up to a minute over the time on one horse in particular.

As said I use only the smallest studs I can get away with behind only and always two in each foot as i agree the slip infront is essetial and I would like to think my horse is pretty darn sound. Ultimately the best thing for a horse is to be barefoot wild and not ridden but that would be no fun for us riders. ;) Welfare of my horse is paramount always has and always will be but I'm not keen to be an also ran!

Ps sounds like you like a cup of tea! ;)
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Tetley was slower barefoot. I could not get him to do the "land and kick on" that cuts 2 seconds off every fence which he had been doing the year before. It was only when he refused uncharacteristically at Winkburn that we realised he had spavins. Unfortunately he never jumped again.

I ran out of Tea names in the end :D We were the Tea Party event team.

I'm going to be picky with you here because I actually think it's important. "Paramount" means absolutely number one in importance. I'm sure you totally have your horse's welfare at heart but there is already evidence in place, carried out by a farrier, that studs are probably high risk of harm to joints. Now, when I was younger I may have made the same decision as you, so I am NOT crticising, but you are choosing to take that risk because you want to win. I have NO problem with that, but I do think that everyone who does make that decision should be making it being totally honest with themselves. I'm sure you are, and it was just a word that felt right, but it means something that you didn't mean. Sorry for being a pedant.


ps I completely disagree with you that it is best for a horse to be barefoot and wild :) Wild horses are wormy, get eaten, die horrible deaths, periodically starve, are often thirsty ...... Natural isn't always best :)
 
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Just a musing, as my boy is barefoot and did slip a little on his one and only time out xc schooling. I would add that it was a dewy morning, the course had just been strimmed and it was drizzling.

That said, the horse that was with us, who was shod, was slipping much more than my horse.

My question is, am I right in thinking that a horse that has never been shod (so therefore has never had his level of grip and balance played around with - and has never had to transition out of shoes) would have more awareness of his own natural balance and therefore slip less, than a previously shod horse that has been transitioned out of shoes?

That probably makes no sense - in which case, apololgies...
 
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