Eventing a barefoot horse... Possible? Safe?

Vetwrap said:
Just a musing, as my boy is barefoot and did slip a little on his one and only time out xc schooling. I would add that it was a dewy morning, the course had just been strimmed and it was drizzling.

That said, the horse that was with us, who was shod, was slipping much more than my horse.

My question is, am I right in thinking that a horse that has never been shod (so therefore has never had his level of grip and balance played around with - and has never had to transition out of shoes) would have more awareness of his own natural balance and therefore slip less, than a previously shod horse that has been transitioned out of shoes?

That probably makes no sense - in which case, apololgies...
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Vetwrap I think that's an interesting question. I have ridden both, but of course each horse can only be one or the other, so you can't test the same horse for shoeless from the start and shoes removed later. I think it's entirely possible that a horse which has been taught to go cross country with studs and shoes would miss them badly at first. And if that ruins the confidence of the rider, you'd get a vicious circle of degrading performance.

When I first did it there was no record I could find of anyone else eventing with no shoes in this country. (Except Tom Robinson, but they were picky about where and when they ran the horse) I'm not saying no-one else had, just that I couldn't find one. So I went down a level first of all and was very concerned about how it would go (and also about whether his feet were going to fall off next day. Feel very silly about that now :D ) Only then did I have the confidence to ride him at Novice and ignore the lack of shoes, and he was fine about it too. But he had all winter to get used to it. I don't think spring would be good timing for anyone taking an eventer out of shoes - so point well made by you.
 
I weigh up the balances but I won't continue with something which I think is harming my horse to win. Yes there may be a study to say studs cause harm to joints but there will probably be others that say no studs increase risk of slipping and therefore tendon/ligament damage. It's all swings and roundabouts ;) I would still say welfare is paramount to me but I know riding will result in wear and tear to joints but I'm careful of the ground I ride on the workload she undertakes etc I limit the possible injuries. of all my previous horses most have gone into their 20/30s te only two not to were due to hereditary conditions. My 14h2s who are both jumped JA are now in mid late 20s and still regulary ridden. All that jumping with studs (which I have always where possible limited to smallest et since I had the choice) hasn't done them much harm only growing old has but they are still sound.

Ultimately different management routines will work for different horses but the fact that my horses stay sound into their old age and enjoy their job says to me my management of their welfare works. If they kept going lame then I would definitely be asking why and remedying it!
 
Santa_Claus said:
Ultimately different management routines will work for different horses but the fact that my horses stay sound into their old age and enjoy their job says to me my management of their welfare works. If they kept going lame then I would definitely be asking why and remedying it!
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Absolutely. They are all a credit to you.
 
millitiger said:
I would always stud up to event- particularly if you are looking to go Intermediate.

I compromise and take their shoes off for 4-6 months over the winter months and then shoes go back on when they are fit for xc schooling or if they start to get footy.

Not only for safety but eventing is expensive enough without getting there and realising you don't feel safe on the xc and have to pull up or the horse stepping on a stone and going sore before the dressage- I know some horses are fine barefoot on all ground but the conditioning/feeding/lifestyle can be very hard to get right, particularly when working a horse at that level.
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I agree with this. I do the same - take shoes off over the winter (and compete SJ on a surface). I only know of one person who events (BE100 level) barefoot and she is always withdrawing because the ground isnt right... I couldnt afford to do that! Personally I think for the level you're at, its safer to be shod and studded - I wouldn't consider doing a novice or beyond not. Id pootle round a PN maybe gently barefoot but that'd be it. Its combinations / tight turns where you cant afford a slip.

Vetwrap - I dont believe a never-been-shod horse is particularly more balanced than one who has had his shoes taken off. I had a Welsh Cob, who Id never had shoes on, he began losing confidence a little jumping on grass after one too many little slips. I shod him, and he was far happier. Depends on the horse though of course.
 
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Sadly because i am a great believer in the benefits of barefoot, I would very wary about competing at speed on grass particularly slick wet grass and in very dry conditions. My mare is barefoot and has slipped over 3 times in the last month or so because of ground conditions in canter/ gallop. Twice on the lunge in canter and once when we were galloping and she bucked and her feet just went from under her. It was very scary and could have been very dangerous. I am certainly very careful about turning at speed at the moment on her as it has shook both her and my confidence.

Of course I guess there could be other factors at play but she never slipped in shoes. I however won't put her in shoes for the sake of the odd gallop or the 1 or 2 xc we might do a year.
 
I had a horse shod yesterday he has been BF since mid march and working but I was just not able to guarantee I could pull him out and have ready to do his job as a hunter BF ( perhaps in a better summer I would have done better) he's been working with and with out boots all summer happily after he was shod yesterday my groom took him out and said he felt very funny he did not feel sore but like he did not know where his feet was today he felt fine.
We are thinking his perception was altered by the shoes going on and after he had been in the field over night he was used to it again .
I must say my own BF horse never gives me any worrys but he's very aware of what he's walking on when a place I go got a new surface he noticed staight away my friends horse who I share the lesson with did not notice.
It logic surely that they need to be used to how to balance whatever way they are worked it is important that all horses required to jump on grass do it at home not on surfaces all the time BF or shod.
 
Really interesting replies guys....
So I think the upshot of this, is that if you want to be competive at novice and above, you need to have shoes and studs, trying to be mindful of not overstudding.
Then come the end of the season, shoes off until the spring.
Thanks everyone, that will be the way to go for me I think. :D
 
We are trying Chester in Cyteks tomorrow...love them or hate them they are the closest thing to barefoot shaping that you can get (IMHO) and you can add studs. Watch this space..... You can follow his progress on Facebook too.
 
Hiya mrussell, saw that on facebook, didn't realise his feet were so bad, poor boy.... Hope the cytek makes him more comfortable, shame about Burnham market..... :(
mrussell said:
We are trying Chester in Cyteks tomorrow...love them or hate them they are the closest thing to barefoot shaping that you can get (IMHO) and you can add studs. Watch this space..... You can follow his progress on Facebook too.
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We took Floss's hind shoes off in March, she has good hard feet and hardly noticed that they had gone. Had to have them put back on 2 weeks ago as she is doing a bit more work (now eventing fit again) and was getting a bit sore. She was hacking out on all out tracks, fields and stubble inc stone tracks and a little roadwork for the entire period and was fine hacing once or twice a week, couldn't cope with any more though. Will def consider taking them off again if work load decreases.

She has a damaged front foot and farrier doesn't think she'd cope totally barefoot.

Topaz Tiger, I would be extremely concerned that your mare with her delicate feet would have problems. If you want to give it a go take her hunds off first and see how she copes.

I really can't be bothered with hoof boots, they either cope or they don't! I do have miles and miles of off road hacing to play on though.

Personally I'm not a fan of Cyteks, have seen too many feet practically butchered making the foot fit the shoe rather than vice versa. This may have been the work of one local farrier though.

I do however like Natural Balance shoes.
 
my mare is currently without shoes, her feet are typical TB, no heels etc and she was in eggbars with wedges, we were still struggling to keep her sound and she used to rip shoes off all the time, even though she lived in overreach boots apart from when in the dressage arena. She also had to be sedated to be shod. We had experimented on and off with pads as well.
Eventually there was no hoof left so farrier insisted she had her shoes off for the winter.
I haven't done BE since - been short of cash and all last year she had a weird autoimmune disease (horses huh) but this summer she has SJ at 90 and 95 cm barefoot on grass and surfaces, and done unaffiliated xc up to 1m classes. She is competitive with the time, i've only come home once without a rosette all summer and that was when i missed out a fence!
Having said that i do find it a bit of a ball ache having to be careful all the time and her feet look a bit raggy now.
 
Hi Thistle, having managed nearly a whole season without any soundness issues for a change, theres a lot to be said for 'if it aint broke, don't fix it!'
My aim is to take her shoes off at the end of the season and give her a month off, then bring her back into work. My farrier says I should try to leave her shoes off for a couple of months at least, to have any benefit.
 
yes my farrier also says they need to be off for a least 2 shoeing cycles pref more to give the damaged foot time to grow out. If you don't take them off for long enough you just have all the raggedy nail hole bits breaking off and have nothing to nail on to. Floss hardly chipped at all her feet are so hard.
 
I'd like to reactivate this threat. Super interesting to read how many of you compete without shoes. Really wonderful!!! I would love to hear more :-)) When I started competing most told me that I should put shoes, I refused for the sake of my horse's health, he was still really young. We are up to 100cm eventing without the smallest problem by now. He does not react, even when landing on stones. Slipping I think is no more often a problem than with shot horses. We have competed in all types of conditions by now (2 years later) and I hope we can go up much higher without shoes. Thanks for the encouragement :-). In my country unshoot horses are the exception in eventing competitions and I get a lot of bad looks....
 
I have a overgrown Connie that has gone up to doing the BE100 Plus classes (so novice SJ and Dr and 100 xc). I haven't done proper novice on him as I fear he would be jumping at the top of his scope, which would put us at risk.

We dip in and out of barefoot as he struggles when the ground gets really hard, so then has fronts on ... But he can happily do the SJ tracks at 1.10 and the xc barefoot with no trouble slipping. Admittedly it may help he has a naturally short stride. Indeed, our first 100 was a couple of years ago at brightling in awful rain and mud and we were one of the few double clears.

The key for me in putting on shoes when needed is to use glue on shoes ... Made by "soundhorse". Thus helps avoid the problems with nails at least.
 
This may be a strange analogy to make, but when I play sports on grass wearing trainers (particularly hockey), it feels very slippy and insecure underfoot. Sometimes people fall over and certainly it affects the ability to turn, accelerate and run very fast. As soon as I switch into studded boots the difference is massive. The foot feels secure so the ability to move over the ground with confidence is considerably greater. Human studs are around the same size as horse studs and horses weigh a lot more than humans so I would imagine the effect of the studs for the horse is considerably less. I think people who run their horses eventing without shoes run the risk of the horse feeling insecure underfoot. Being unshod for pleasure riding is a completely different issue altogether because of the lower demand for grip.
 
Interesting discussion.

My two are currently barefoot and we are planning to keep it that way for as long as they are comfortable. They are both green young horses who have never been shod. We're currently 'maxed out' at 80 cm at which they've completed several horse trials/events.

I have not yet noticed a difference in 'feel' for them. The big hulking barefoot gelding certainly keeps up with his gelding buddies in the field, galloping up and down the hills, and doesn't seem to be any worse for wear in lacking shoes. I don't see him slipping any more or less than the shod horses when at liberty.

After watching two barnmates' eventing seasons get destroyed last summer (abscesses, missing shoes and hooves that <to my novice eye> appeared damaged from having nails driven into them caused them to miss about a month each), I've resolved to keep my two barefoot for as long as they are comfortable. We are not planning to go intermediate <EVER> so I think we'll be good for a while! :D
 
One of my best friends was working for Tom Robinson when he evented his barefoot horse to advanced, she said he needed no real special treatment, and coped massively better than any of them had expected, and clearly it didnt hinder his progress. Having said that, it still didnt make Tom want to take shoes off his other eventers, so i would assume that it can work very well on a horse with issues etc, but probably isnt ideal for the majority of eventers. Some of my own dressage horses are barefoot, but they work on surfaces, so it is a different issue.
 
daffy44 said:
One of my best friends was working for Tom Robinson when he evented his barefoot horse to advanced, she said he needed no real special treatment, and coped massively better than any of them had expected, and clearly it didnt hinder his progress. Having said that, it still didnt make Tom want to take shoes off his other eventers, so i would assume that it can work very well on a horse with issues etc, but probably isnt ideal for the majority of eventers. Some of my own dressage horses are barefoot, but they work on surfaces, so it is a different issue.
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This is fantastic to read! Thanks for sharing:). I know many people have serious doubts eventing horses barefoot. I was one of them. When I started the 80 cm I was worried, when I reached 90 cm even more... But then I had a couple of amazing experiences (more than I can list here):
One day at a 90 cm competition it started raining really hard. Many horses with studs slipped in the jumping, everybody had penalty points for time. I was afraid to go in, but in the end I had just as many penalty points for time as all the others :D. My horse slowed down as soon as he felt the earth under him was very slippery..(a huge advantage as barefoot horses fell the ground and can react to it).
Then the cross, horses fell down.. not fun.. I was scared. I decided to take it really easy with my barefoot boy and to stop as soon as I felt it got unsafe. - The cross was amazing, no slipping, my horses wanted to advance, only two horses came in clear, in time.. Mine was one of them.

Another example: one day at a 90cm there was clearly a hole in the water, some horses fell, so did the one before I passed. I have a video of that jump. Mine literally stepped into the hole in the water, and immediately pulled out the leg and continued safely.. Thanks to feeling the ground as he wore no shoes? I cannot prove it.. but I do wonder...

Now at the 100 cm I stopped worrying about having no studs and shoes. I know he can do it and he seems to feel very safe and happy to be without shoes. Let's see how far we can go without. I am not planning to change a running system :D. He goes every day in winter into his muddy winter pasture to practice his sliding skills :p.
 
With regard to studs putting extra strain on, I think about it from my own point of view. Having played plenty of sport involving wearing studded boots or running in spikes, my own experience is that slipping (when I don't have studs or spikes on) has resulted in painful injuries. I cannot recall ever having an injury as a result of studs or spikes (other than the "amusing" occasion when I hooked a stud through my laces as I was running).

I always stud my horses very carefully - not much more than "spikes" unless the going is good, a tiny bit more for good going and then only the big jobs for really soft, sliding ground. I almost invariably use double studs because, once I'd tried them, it was clear the horses favoured them and I can understand why. I'm not sure, from memory, that I've ever had one slip XC or SJ whilst in studs. And it is really noticeable that the horses actively like having studs in. They enjoy the extra grip on the turns and they quickly learn to use it. One crackers horse I owned stood still to have her studs in long before she managed to control herself over anything else - she loved her "high heels". So I have to say I'm not too concerned about the extra strain issue. Swings and roundabouts - slipping can be damaging too, physically and psychologically.
 
I evented barefoot. .. till my horse slipped on wet slippy grass and fell. Now I shoe and stud for the season and shoes off for the winter and hunting. I agree that I actually would be more concerned re sj on grass without studs then going xc.
 
Darremi said:
This may be a strange analogy to make, but when I play sports on grass wearing trainers (particularly hockey), it feels very slippy and insecure underfoot. Sometimes people fall over and certainly it affects the ability to turn, accelerate and run very fast. As soon as I switch into studded boots the difference is massive. The foot feels secure so the ability to move over the ground with confidence is considerably greater. Human studs are around the same size as horse studs and horses weigh a lot more than humans so I would imagine the effect of the studs for the horse is considerably less. I think people who run their horses eventing without shoes run the risk of the horse feeling insecure underfoot. Being unshod for pleasure riding is a completely different issue altogether because of the lower demand for grip.
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There is also evidence that studded boots damage human joints as well though and I am not entirely sure it is quite the same as the studs are not actually nailed into your feets so you have some ability to release the strain by your foot slipping slightly in the shoes. However I am no expert on biomechanics.

Someone mentioned glue ons would they be a good compromise? Genuine question as I would like to know.
 
Lynds said:
I evented barefoot. .. till my horse slipped on wet slippy grass and fell. Now I shoe and stud for the season and shoes off for the winter and hunting. I agree that I actually would be more concerned re sj on grass without studs then going xc.
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I think in the end this is the best compromise.....
 
Topaz Tiger said:
I spoke to my osteopath about it, as he works with some serious endurance horses and he said the top ones are all shod as they can't afford to step on a stone and then be out.
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In this country, that attitude is common. But the number of barefoot and booted horses in the top 20 at Tevis Rock over the last few years argues differently. Perhaps if there were a binary opposition of shod vs. not, this argument would hold more water. But boot technology has come on so fast in the last decade, that I really don't see a reason to shoe. And if I lose a boot (which does happen, because my pony has wonky feet and I haven't used glue-ons yet), then I can just happily crack on bare, instead of having to retire. The trend in endurance, at least, is for more, rather than fewer, barefoot horses. Even in the UK, I think there will be changes in the next decade or so.

One thing I find, is that there is a lot of pressure on me to come in sound every ride. If a shod horse gets lamed out, it's "one of those things"; if mine were lamed out, I'm sure there would immediately be a chorus of, "it's because he's barefoot". It's a logical fallacy, but daunting sometimes; a bit like the old "women in the workplace have to be better than men, to get the same respect".

I also spoke to my vet and he said if you are unshod, you've got to accept that you will lose part of the year to the ground conditions or the foot wearing faster than it grows.
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That's just not true. What is your vet's experience of barefoot performance horses? Managing barefoot horses here appears a bit trickier than in NA, probably because we keep them in boggy fields, and then expect them to stay sound over hard rocky going. But it's not impossible, if you think and plan. I made the mistake last year of upping the distances too fast in the spring, and yes, his hooves were wearing too fast. But the solution wasn't shoeing, it was booting (in front only) for about 6 weeks for any hack longer than an hour, at which point the feet growth rate had caught up to the wear. So yes, wear can be a problem, but it's simply an indicator that you're doing something a bit wrong and need to adjust the regime.

As to ground conditions, perhaps if the conditions mean you don't feel safe without studs, the relevant question might not be "shall I shoe and stud?" but "is it fair to ask my horse to compete at all under these conditions, if I only feel safe studded?". Only you can answer where the balance lies between your competitive desires and your assessment of various peoples' thoughts on the possible health detriments of studding.

Certainly, for a lot of people, shoeing for the season and pulling them for the off-season works as a compromise.

I will be very interested to see what happens, as boots become ever more reliable for jumping. :)
 
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spookypony said:
In this country, that attitude is common. But the number of barefoot and booted horses in the top 20 at Tevis Rock over the last few years argues differently. Perhaps if there were a binary opposition of shod vs. not, this argument would hold more water. But boot technology has come on so fast in the last decade, that I really don't see a reason to shoe. And if I lose a boot (which does happen, because my pony has wonky feet and I haven't used glue-ons yet), then I can just happily crack on bare, instead of having to retire. The trend in endurance, at least, is for more, rather than fewer, barefoot horses. Even in the UK, I think there will be changes in the next decade or so.

One thing I find, is that there is a lot of pressure on me to come in sound every ride. If a shod horse gets lamed out, it's "one of those things"; if mine were lamed out, I'm sure there would immediately be a chorus of, "it's because he's barefoot". It's a logical fallacy, but daunting sometimes; a bit like the old "women in the workplace have to be better than men, to get the same respect".



That's just not true. What is your vet's experience of barefoot performance horses? Managing barefoot horses here appears a bit trickier than in NA, probably because we keep them in boggy fields, and then expect them to stay sound over hard rocky going. But it's not impossible, if you think and plan. I made the mistake last year of upping the distances too fast in the spring, and yes, his hooves were wearing too fast. But the solution wasn't shoeing, it was booting (in front only) for about 6 weeks for any hack longer than an hour, at which point the feet growth rate had caught up to the wear. So yes, wear can be a problem, but it's simply an indicator that you're doing something a bit wrong and need to adjust the regime.

As to ground conditions, perhaps if the conditions mean you don't feel safe without studs, the relevant question might not be "shall I shoe and stud?" but "is it fair to ask my horse to compete at all under these conditions, if I only feel safe studded?". Only you can answer where the balance lies between your competitive desires and your assessment of various peoples' thoughts on the possible health detriments of studding.

Certainly, for a lot of people, shoeing for the season and pulling them for the off-season works as a compromise.

I will be very interested to see what happens, as boots become ever more reliable for jumping. :)
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Nothing to add from me, but I just wanted to say 'great post'!

(And as an aside: My barefoot horse regularly does 4+ hour rides on varying surfaces 2-3 times a week and he's not had any issues with wearing his feet too fast.)
 
Back in the days when HOY's was at Wembley a friend qualified for the British Novice finals on a barefoot horse, doing most of the rounds and indeed the qualifying round on grass. She also used to do BD, again on grass and she always came home with ribbons. Not BE I know but two out of three :)

I always remember when they were giving out the rosettes when they qualified for Wembley, the guy presenting the prizes said "You'll have to get shoes on him now won't you" :rolleyes: She didn't.


A very good balanced rider will also help out the horse regardless of shod of not. If you put me up against my instructor and gave us both a 100 scenarios where the horse tripped / slipped due to no shoes I'd probably come off 99 times and my instructor just the once (that's not meant to made my instructor sound like a crap teacher btw)
 
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