Eventing cobs BE

[[59668]]

Hi

So first of all, let me say that I have a 8yo, 15hh, piebald heavyweight cob. Think gypsy cob, but I hog and clip him. He's a proper stamp of a cob. I love him to bits.

He has always loved to jump, and has scope for a single fence up to a metre, but we struggle round courses. He loves xc, and finds this a lot easier.

His canter is typical for a cob, and while we are working on it, it is still pretty poor, and I think this is one of the reasons why xc is so much easier for him than sj.

Anyway, I have completed a ODE at 75cm, and we had 2 down sj and clear with time faults xc. If I don't get it exactly right sj, and really help him out, he will try his heart out, but will have fences down. And I know time xc is always going to be an issue.

When I bought him 4 years ago, all I wanted to do was hack. But he has built my confidence to the point that I now want to event BE80.

My concerns are that the fences are very up to height, and particularly width, and I just don't know if he can do it. and I know we won't make the time xc.

Last week we competed at our first unaff 80, and were eliminated SJ. It seems like he is losing confidence the bigger the courses get. He is starting to stop and back off, and he used to fly at them. I am going to take it right back to basics, jumping tiny courses, and see if he gets his confidence back, and also work on this canter. I am getting frustrated - everyone else seems to be floating round effortlessly on agile horses, and I feel like everything is a struggle for me. I'm not a great rider either.

I feel like maybe I am trying to make him something he's not. I mean, lets face it, if I went out now to look for a horse to event, I wouldn't look at a cob.

So anyway, I'm sad and confused. I don't know what to do. Does anyone have a proper stamp of a cob that they event affiliated?

 

[Lolo]

My sister evented her 14hh cob when she was 11-13. He'd not evented or jumped more than 80cm when she started riding him but they ended up doing quite well at 1.10m ODEs. He was a proper little cob who'd have seriously suited being clipped out properly, but if we even trimmed his feathers pre-show he jumped badly so Al never let us.

He had to be so fit though to be comfortable at even 90cm, and when he was doing the bigger stuff (1m+) he was almost dangerously fit- you sat on him and he felt like he could explode at any second, and he was very difficult to handle when he was like that and went everywhere in either a chifney or a bridle because he would just take off. But even for 90cm he was in essentially hard work, being ridden 6 days a week with lots of fitness work, and was on a restricted diet to keep him slim.

I think people don't quite get how fit the non-typical horses have to be. At the time Al had Henry, I had an elderly TB who had about half as much work and was just as fit with the same stamina. It was a lot of effort to keep Henry going, and he was never a child's pony.

To give some visual context to this one:

Henry and Al when she first started riding him He's not actually overweight here, he was fat scored as the upper side of perfect. He looks like he has a mega belly, because my sister was tiny on him and it was not flattering to him at all!

Same pony, not at his fittest but getting there- he lost something like 8 inches off his girth, despite still taking a MW saddle and you can see he's a lot slimmer.

The only photo I have of him at his fittest, and you can see that he is still very cobby despite being very lean. At this point he was doing 1.10m BSJA and ODEs and was preparing to go hunting (where he'd do full days at the front without an issue, beyond being a strong sod).

It was so much effort, and her next pony was 14.2hh but a TB/WB mix and it was so easy keeping her fit. Henry was much happier less fit too, more settled and relaxed. He went back to 70/80cm and dressage with his owner and enjoyed himself!

 

[[59668]]

My sister evented her 14hh cob when she was 11-13. He'd not evented or jumped more than 80cm when she started riding him but they ended up doing quite well at 1.10m ODEs. He was a proper little cob who'd have seriously suited being clipped out properly, but if we even trimmed his feathers pre-show he jumped badly so Al never let us.

He had to be so fit though to be comfortable at even 90cm, and when he was doing the bigger stuff (1m+) he was almost dangerously fit- you sat on him and he felt like he could explode at any second, and he was very difficult to handle when he was like that and went everywhere in either a chifney or a bridle because he would just take off. But even for 90cm he was in essentially hard work, being ridden 6 days a week with lots of fitness work, and was on a restricted diet to keep him slim.

I think people don't quite get how fit the non-typical horses have to be. At the time Al had Henry, I had an elderly TB who had about half as much work and was just as fit with the same stamina. It was a lot of effort to keep Henry going, and he was never a child's pony.

You're totally right re the fitness. I have been working hard on that, doing canter intervals etc, but I think there is still a lot to do before he is properly fit. I want to give him every chance to succeed.

 

[slumdog]

Have you had lessons on him? I'd get a good trainer and get some lessons to help both of you.

I don't know about eventing cobs but Tiger Tim is a successful dressage cob and a friend of mine has a hairy cob complete with full feathery legs who is an absolute show jumping machine.

 

[[59668]]

Have you had lessons on him? I'd get a good trainer and get some lessons to help both of you.

I don't know about eventing cobs but Tiger Tim is a successful dressage cob and a friend of mine has a hairy cob complete with full feathery legs who is an absolute show jumping machine.

Hi. Yes we have lessons from a seperate jumping and dressage coach. Part of the problem I think has been that he has been pushed past the point of being comfortable jumping. He has a very limited petrol tank, and our current coach goes for quantity over quality. I have enlisted the help of a new coach who I have done some xc clinics with, and I know she "gets" him better.

We are working on the canter with our dressage coach.

 

[[59668]]

My sister evented her 14hh cob when she was 11-13. He'd not evented or jumped more than 80cm when she started riding him but they ended up doing quite well at 1.10m ODEs. He was a proper little cob who'd have seriously suited being clipped out properly, but if we even trimmed his feathers pre-show he jumped badly so Al never let us.

He had to be so fit though to be comfortable at even 90cm, and when he was doing the bigger stuff (1m+) he was almost dangerously fit- you sat on him and he felt like he could explode at any second, and he was very difficult to handle when he was like that and went everywhere in either a chifney or a bridle because he would just take off. But even for 90cm he was in essentially hard work, being ridden 6 days a week with lots of fitness work, and was on a restricted diet to keep him slim.

I think people don't quite get how fit the non-typical horses have to be. At the time Al had Henry, I had an elderly TB who had about half as much work and was just as fit with the same stamina. It was a lot of effort to keep Henry going, and he was never a child's pony.

To give some visual context to this one:

Henry and Al when she first started riding him He's not actually overweight here, he was fat scored as the upper side of perfect. He looks like he has a mega belly, because my sister was tiny on him and it was not flattering to him at all!

Same pony, not at his fittest but getting there- he lost something like 8 inches off his girth, despite still taking a MW saddle and you can see he's a lot slimmer.

The only photo I have of him at his fittest, and you can see that he is still very cobby despite being very lean. At this point he was doing 1.10m BSJA and ODEs and was preparing to go hunting (where he'd do full days at the front without an issue, beyond being a strong sod).

It was so much effort, and her next pony was 14.2hh but a TB/WB mix and it was so easy keeping her fit. Henry was much happier less fit too, more settled and relaxed. He went back to 70/80cm and dressage with his owner and enjoyed himself!

Wow that's a serious pop! That encompasses what I mean....it's such effort and feels like I am fighting with nature. Like trying to squeeze a round ball into a square shape.

 

[TheMule]

I think you recognise that he's not really athletic enough for the goals you have set. He may scrape round an 80cm but by the sounds of things its going to be a struggle for him and not particularly enjoyable.
Personally I would let him do what he's good at and look for another horse if your ambitions are higher than that

 

[be positive]

You are going to be struggling with this type but with some help you could get back on track to do an 80, at the moment the ground is hard so may be causing him to be uncomfortable as he is a heavy type, it may be worth working on a surface, improving the fitness and waiting until the ground eases up before trying another event.
If the canter is still poor you need to really focus on improving that, until he can canter in balance he will be struggling to jump correctly, especially if the stride is not there, the extra effort will be harder for him than a lighter type so his confidence will start to go.
He should be able to do the time xc but will need to be fully fit, as light as possible and again well balanced and jumping very confidently out of his stride, having to steady and pop in short ones will waste both time and energy, he requires everything to be in place to perform at what is probably the top level he is capable of, it will be his equivalent of a sport horse going round Badminton, everything has to go well for him to succeed.

I produced a chunky lazy horse to do a few events last year, not a cob physically but similar in many ways, his canter fortunately was good but he lacked any forwardness and had done very little jumping, he was worked extremely hard 6 days a week, mainly on his fitness and jumping, lots and lots of cantering, he gradually improved his overall fitness although was still very lazy, in his first event, an 80, he did the best dressage, he was well established so this was not a surprise, went clear sj which was a surprise, then set off xc in the lead with his rider working harder than him, he was so switched off he had 1 stop and a stack of time faults. A few weeks later, more schooling at xc speed he went to a 90 and jumped round with hardly any TF being placed 8th, the point being that with the increased fitness and his confidence boosted he found it easier to jump out of his stride and wasted far less time.

I think most horses can do BE 80 but it may be the limit for certain types, you will find it easier once the canter improves, so will he, that needs to be your focus as until it is easy for him you will be disappointed if you keep going out competing, you have to decide whether to put in more time and effort with this horse and event him, sell him and get something more suited or enjoy the horse he is and do what he is comfortable with, if you take your time he may get there in a year or so.

 

[Nicnac]

If he doesn't enjoy it, find him another job and get yourself something that does enjoy it if it's what you want to do

 

[[59668]]

You are going to be struggling with this type but with some help you could get back on track to do an 80, at the moment the ground is hard so may be causing him to be uncomfortable as he is a heavy type, it may be worth working on a surface, improving the fitness and waiting until the ground eases up before trying another event.
If the canter is still poor you need to really focus on improving that, until he can canter in balance he will be struggling to jump correctly, especially if the stride is not there, the extra effort will be harder for him than a lighter type so his confidence will start to go.
He should be able to do the time xc but will need to be fully fit, as light as possible and again well balanced and jumping very confidently out of his stride, having to steady and pop in short ones will waste both time and energy, he requires everything to be in place to perform at what is probably the top level he is capable of, it will be his equivalent of a sport horse going round Badminton, everything has to go well for him to succeed.

I produced a chunky lazy horse to do a few events last year, not a cob physically but similar in many ways, his canter fortunately was good but he lacked any forwardness and had done very little jumping, he was worked extremely hard 6 days a week, mainly on his fitness and jumping, lots and lots of cantering, he gradually improved his overall fitness although was still very lazy, in his first event, an 80, he did the best dressage, he was well established so this was not a surprise, went clear sj which was a surprise, then set off xc in the lead with his rider working harder than him, he was so switched off he had 1 stop and a stack of time faults. A few weeks later, more schooling at xc speed he went to a 90 and jumped round with hardly any TF being placed 8th, the point being that with the increased fitness and his confidence boosted he found it easier to jump out of his stride and wasted far less time.

I think most horses can do BE 80 but it may be the limit for certain types, you will find it easier once the canter improves, so will he, that needs to be your focus as until it is easy for him you will be disappointed if you keep going out competing, you have to decide whether to put in more time and effort with this horse and event him, sell him and get something more suited or enjoy the horse he is and do what he is comfortable with, if you take your time he may get there in a year or so.

This is such sensible advice, and really is the way that I am feeling at the moment. It breaks my heart that I have outgrown him, but what a testament to his type. He has taken me from being too scared to canter, to thinking about BE eventing.

 

[chestnut cob]

I don't really think this is a thread about whether cobs can event - I have a 15hh Heinz 57 thing, probably mostly Connemara and I'd hazard a guess he has some cob in there or maybe a bit of ID. Doesn't look like much but boy can he jump, and he lives for it. I did some UA 80s last year and a 90 HT, then a couple of BE80s (placed in the 2nd) and a couple of UA 90s (came 2nd in the first one, mid table in the second due to my rubbish navigation in the SJ!). He skips over 90cm like it's barely there. At home we're jumping 1m/ 1m05 in lessons now, he sails over 1m XC fences when schooling, and I've popped the odd 1m10 (or even 1m20 before he understood he could brush through the top of the brush!). I might do a couple of BE90s at the end of this season on a ticket, and will most likely become a full BE member next year so I can do 90s regularly. I've been told several times I should be aiming to qualify for Badminton Grassroots with him. So that's a cobby type who can absolutely hold his own at 90, and should do OK at 100 when fit enough and when I'm ready for it.

But I think you need to be looking more at whether your horse wants to event/ jump. I agree with TM - to me it doesn't sound like he enjoys the job. I would start with changing your SJ trainer and find someone who works on the quality and see if you can get your confidence back. Then maybe try doing some UA SJ at 80cm (so be comfortable jumping a course at 90cm at home). When you say you're not a great rider, maybe you also need to spend some time getting yourself more established too so you can help him out and give him confidence? But if he's good XC and enjoys it, what about doing some hunter trials to make it fun again and then see where you are?

 

[Lolo]

NicNac, bet she never gets time faults now though! Al spent 2 years working out how best to save time, from taking the tightest possible line to setting up as late as possible and kicking on as soon as Henry touched down. She got 'too fast' time penalties on her next pony because she was so used to having to be as efficient as possible, and even now rarely gets time penalties even if she thinks she hacked round.

Hnery was, despite being a bit of a nutter, well schooled. He had a very active and forwards canter that was adjustable, and he was very off the aids. If he hadn't had that he'd have struggled to do more than 75cm I think, but they didn't have him ploughing along on the forehand and that made his jumping very easy.

 

[[59668]]

Thank you all.

I'm not sure that it's that he doesn't want to do it. I feel like his confidence has taken a knock, and that maybe this is his limit. I can't see him being able to school round a 90 to be honest, and I know we need to be schooling higher than we are competing.

I don't think I could ever sell him, so he would be loaned at the most if I found something else to event.

 

[be positive]

This is such sensible advice, and really is the way that I am feeling at the moment. It breaks my heart that I have outgrown him, but what a testament to his type. He has taken me from being too scared to canter, to thinking about BE eventing.

If you decide you have outgrown him and it happens frequently when you buy a confidence giver, it is probably in the best interests of you both to move on to something more suited, just be very careful that you don't go too far the other way and overhorse yourself.

 

[Casey76]

Sorry to butt in, I just thought I'd show off my lovely cob doign XC He never did more than a couple of training days before I lost him, but he absolutely adored XC (much more than the dressage I used to inflict upon him)

He was 17 in this photo, and was jumping 1m05 at home. My sharer stuck to the smaller jumps XC as he'd never done it before, but took to it like a duck to water

 

[Spot On]

My big lad lives for XC and if he wasn't such a crack pot in Warm up he would event properly he had jumped over CCI* fences with not a bother but marble wouldn't have a problem with the time he must have TB in him.

 

[Walrus]

There's a girl with a fell that got round a BE80! I think you need to have a think about what you want - as a few have said, you could probably get him to BE80 if you can get him jumping confidently again but you are going to accept that there will be a limit - and once you've put the phenomenal amount of effort into getting him to BE80 will you be satisfied or will you want more. If you literally want to do one or two BE80 to say you've done it then with the right training etc. sounds like you could make it but you are fighting nature a bit (nothing against cobs) and the key will be to get him fitter than you ever could imagine he could be, and then a bit more, to give him the best chance going.

I think if you have a bit of a freak that jumps for fun it makes it easier but he needs to be taking on his fences at that height for his type to get round - like the poster said above BE80 / 90 will be his Badminton!

 

[Walrus]

Sorry to butt in, I just thought I'd show off my lovely cob doign XC He never did more than a couple of training days before I lost him, but he absolutely adored XC (much more than the dressage I used to inflict upon him)

He was 17 in this photo, and was jumping 1m05 at home. My sharer stuck to the smaller jumps XC as he'd never done it before, but took to it like a duck to water

He looks super - that height though the cob-ness isn't an issue. My 13.1hh fell will zoom round XC and loves it but I would't put him at a fixed fence that was over about 70cm - it's not that I don't think he could do it but if they're at absolutely full stretch (esp width wise) they have no athleticism left to give you if either of you cock up and they have to get you out of a sticky situation and XC fences don't fall down.


ETA...

Just as an aside, isn't it funny what different people's perception of a cob is. I wouldn't class something that was connie / ID as cobby - there will be plenty of irish types eventing and I would hazard a guess that there is many a pony club eventer that is connie X! I have a vision of a highland / gypsy cob style heavyweight when replying to this thread. Not a criticism just an interesting observation!

 

[[59668]]

For the record, mine is very much a gypsy cob heavyweight......11 inches of bone type!!

 

[chestnut cob]

Just as an aside, isn't it funny what different people's perception of a cob is. I wouldn't class something that was connie / ID as cobby - there will be plenty of irish types eventing and I would hazard a guess that there is many a pony club eventer that is connie X! I have a vision of a highland / gypsy cob style heavyweight when replying to this thread. Not a criticism just an interesting observation!

I guess that's referring to my post - he is definitely cobby! He isn't a coloured gypsy cob but he looks nothing like registered pure or even part bred connies I know or see out and about. He is usually referred to by most as a "sporty cob". He's just a bit more pony-like than the cob pictures on the thread. But he's not a HW cob, so I take your point there! My point was just that cobby types can do it and I don't think the OP's issue is whether cobs can or can't, it's whether *her* cob can or can't.

 

[JFTDWS]

Just as an aside, isn't it funny what different people's perception of a cob is. I wouldn't class something that was connie / ID as cobby - there will be plenty of irish types eventing and I would hazard a guess that there is many a pony club eventer that is connie X! I have a vision of a highland / gypsy cob style heavyweight when replying to this thread. Not a criticism just an interesting observation!

You always get this on "cob" threads - if it's not a TB, it's practically a cob in some people's books.

FWIW, I'm hoping to event one of my highlands. He's a bit of a freak of nature though, and I would imagine he is much lighter than your cob. I'd like to hit BE90 level with him - but he's pretty odd, as in jumps 1m30 casually from trot in the field. I also sj-ed my now retired heavyweight cob at around 90cm / HT up to 85cm when he was in his late teens. We had our good days and I imagine if he'd competed when younger he'd have been more consistent and competitive, but it was never "easy".

This is the highland just before we ate sand in a proper somersaulting misfire over a fence this morning. He's normally very smart to jump!

And this is the cob - one of my fave pics of him actually!

I don't think there's a problem with seeing how far a competent cob can go, but if you're pushing the limits of his capabilities, I wouldn't want to be eventing at that level. There's nothing wrong with moving "up" to a more sporty version if you want to compete seriously. You'd be well advised to solidify what you can on him before you do though, rather than overhorse yourself before you're ready (and I say this with zero idea of your skills, it's not a personal reflection!).

I think if yours if maxing out at 1m single fence / struggling with 80cm sj, and you aren't hindering him in any way, he probably won't be able to event safely or competitively.

 

[gembear]

You always get this on "cob" threads - if it's not a TB, it's practically a cob in some people's books.

FWIW, I'm hoping to event one of my highlands. He's a bit of a freak of nature though, and I would imagine he is much lighter than your cob. I'd like to hit BE90 level with him - but he's pretty odd, as in jumps 1m30 casually from trot in the field. I also sj-ed my now retired heavyweight cob at around 90cm / HT up to 85cm when he was in his late teens. We had our good days and I imagine if he'd competed when younger he'd have been more consistent and competitive, but it was never "easy".

This is the highland just before we ate sand in a proper somersaulting misfire over a fence this morning. He's normally very smart to jump!

And this is the cob - one of my fave pics of him actually!

I don't think there's a problem with seeing how far a competent cob can go, but if you're pushing the limits of his capabilities, I wouldn't want to be eventing at that level. There's nothing wrong with moving "up" to a more sporty version if you want to compete seriously. You'd be well advised to solidify what you can on him before you do though, rather than overhorse yourself before you're ready (and I say this with zero idea of your skills, it's not a personal reflection!).

I think if yours if maxing out at 1m single fence / struggling with 80cm sj, and you aren't hindering him in any way, he probably won't be able to event safely or competitively.

Wow, i dont have anything to add here (sorry) but I had to say that your boys are gorgeous! Especially your highland.

 

[Madali]

I have a welsh D who I compete up to BE novice and who I think will go intermediate.
Show jumping is more of an effort than XC but get the right trainer and sort the canter out and you will lick it.
If time XC is an issue walk the course carefully and ride economical lines. I am always one of the fastest round the course because I ride tight lines and don't mess about with her into a fence.
As soon as you land after a fence ride away this saves valuable time.
Don't give up.

 

[dark rider]

My hairy cob evented up to BE100 with no problems. The problem was fitness, as the other posters have suggested. We only just made the time at BE90. But we did have a lot of fun.
I would just make sure that he has not been overfaced by going back to smaller courses. The difference with BE80 and unaffiliated is the width of the fences SJ, so you need to make sure he is happy at that level. There are lots of unaffiliated events run over the BE courses, so you can try those first.

 

[Walrus]

JFTD, have to admit, when I typed the 'freak' comment on my post I did have your young highland in mind! In the nicest possible way of course!

 

[JFTDWS]

Wow, i dont have anything to add here (sorry) but I had to say that your boys are gorgeous! Especially your highland.

Thanks, it's a good thing he's pretty and (usually) fairly good at his job!

JFTD, have to admit, when I typed the 'freak' comment on my post I did have your young highland in mind! In the nicest possible way of course!

No illusions here, he is a freak of nature. I called him Sherlock to Fergie's Watson this morning. He's very good at leading Fergus into trouble (and peril!), and he's flippin' dangerous when he goes maverick! They also have an extremely inappropriate cohabiting relationship, so if the deerstalker fits...

I'm sorry I've just hijacked the OP's thread. I really need to get out more...

 

[Jango]

Not quite the same as I have a full Welsh D, but I just started BE eventing with him and at the start of the season I schooled round a BE80 track and a friend timed me, we were very slow and would have had penalties... He's not a naturally fast horse, but he enjoys xc and after a summer of serious fitness work he got round Stafford BE80 (which is known as a long course) 30secs under the optimum. I started with gallop training as a separate activity so one day hack, another gallop etc but now he will hack/school then gallop on the same day. I also give him a lot of high energy food (oats and ready mash extra). He looks fantastic and is really enjoying his work, but it is much more time consuming and expensive for me!! But if I want to event I owe it to him to make sure he's more than fit for the job as hes not a TB. Get your cob super fit, up his feed and get some jumping lessons (lunging will also help his canter) and see where he takes you, he might surprise you or you may have to accept his limitations

 

[soulfull]

From what you say I think your lad is a much more substantial cob than others are realising.

In which case I think you would be better dropping down, getting his confidence back and looking for a new horse
It is very hard when you out grow them in this way. But I have been there and didn't want to get another one so kept backing off, but then I would push again, repeated many times before I finally got the guts to admit I really did want to be doing things he couldn't do
As someone else said be careful you don't over horse yourself then. If I were you I would still look for a confidence giver especially as you are going into something youve not done before. Problem is these horse are mega expensive
Good luck

 

[TGM]

I have had a look at some of your previous photos and although indeed your boy is a proper cob, he does not look exceptionally heavyweight and I know plenty of cobs that type who can cope easily with BE80 and BE90. Many years ago I had a cob who was fractionally lighter than yours but actually worse in conformation who would ping round 3ft3 and 3ft6 eventing courses with ease, but he was a very forward going, active horse which made things much easier.

What is more crucial than his type is his temperament - whilst slow and steady is great for a confidence giving hack, for jumping it does help to have a horse who is relatively keen and up for the job, especially if they are the heavier type. It may be that your boy might not really have the heart for eventing. On the other hand, you don't sound like you are particularly confident in your abilities and this may transmit itself to your horse and cause him to be less confident.

One other point to consider is soundness - you say his canter is not good, and he finds XC easier than SJ, so might be worth having a quick check up to ensure his hocks etc are in full working order. I do agree with Lolo that fitness is crucial with these types and he does look a little tubby for eventing so that is another factor to consider.

Obviously without seeing you two performing in the flesh it is difficult to pinpoint the root of the problem. I presume you are having regular lessons so would be interesting to hear your instructor's views. Just be cautious about abandoning a confidence giver for a sportier type unless you are 100% sure you it is what you want and are confident enough to deal with a more forward going type.

 

[[59668]]

Thank you so much to everyone for the fantastic replies. Everyone has been so fair and reasonable and has given some great advice.

I have a plan. Which is to work on this canter and fitness as a priority. I took him xc schooling today to get him thinking forward and just went over some really small fences and he was fab.

I have booked a lesson with a different jump instructor who I have done some clinics with and she gets us both so I'm hopeful there.

All who have said that I am not massively sure of my own ability is also right. It is something I need to continue to work on.

Thank you all. What a great set of advice and support from complete strangers!