Eventing costs UK vs. USA

[RachelFerd]

I really enjoyed watching Carolina International at the weekend on H&C - top class 4* eventing.. plus 1, 2 and 3* classes on SJ and XC day.

However, I then read the schedule and worked out how much it would cost to event in the US (given that i have a bit of a move to US pipedream....) - I have to say it makes BE look like pocket money....

Carolina International 2*S (US) = entry fee $450.00 + stabling $290.00 + camping $50.00 per night (3 nights - $150.00) TOTAL = $890/£690

Chatsworth International 2*S (UK) = entry fee £143.99 + start fee £30.79 + £16 FEI anti-doping + £150 stabling (inc 2 bedding, not compulsory as many cheaper options locally too) + £95 hook-up (if you need it...) TOTAL = £435 w/hookup and onsite stabling OR £220 without hookup and stabling at an off-site location (£30/1 night)

and at national level...

Caroline International 'Training' (US) - equiv BE100 = entry fee $275.00 + stabling $290.00 (as runs over 2 days - and no bedding included) + camping 1 night $50.00 TOTAL = $615/£470

Kelsall International BE100 (UK) = entry fee £80.95 + £17.45 start fee TOTAL = £98.40


... stark difference in costs!

 

[Wishfilly]

I always get the impression that competing horses in general is a lot more expensive in the US than it is in the UK- perhaps even more so in showjumping and dressage compared to eventing?

But the difference at "competent amateur" level (i.e. BE100) seems huge!

 

[Cloball]

Add in the vast distances people travel to compete in the US.

 

[Otherwise]

The median salary is higher in the US than the UK so it isn't quite as bad as it first seems.

 

[Lyle]

Never complaining about Aus prices ever again

 

[RachelFerd]

The median salary is higher in the US than the UK so it isn't quite as bad as it first seems.

Not 4x higher though, surely?!

 

[LEC]

• The median household income in the US in 2019 was $68,703
• The average annual real wage in 2019 in the US was $65,836
• The weekly median earnings for full-time wage or salary workers in the United States in the second quarter of 2021 amounted to $990. It translates to a yearly income of approximately $51,480. Any amount above that should theoretically be considered a good salary; however, it is not as easy as that. What is considered a good salary in one city may not be so in another. Other factors that determine a good salary are the type of job, level of education, and sadly, even gender and race.
  
  Significantly lower taxation as well.
  
  In uk:The ONS tells us that in April 2021, median weekly earnings for full-time employees went up by 4.3 per cent compared to the previous year, meaning that the average person took home £611 per week, or approximately £31,772 p.a.
  
  I make that a 62% increase in wages?
  

 

[TPO]

Never complaining about Aus prices ever again

Compared to UK or US, or both?

I'm guessing that fuel being cheaper in America (& Australia) might be a factor too in the overall cost of competing?

 

[Nicnac]

Not 4x higher though, surely?!

No not 4 x higher and a lot of taxes are indirect so although Government income tax is less, there is federal tax on top as well as medicare tax not to mention private healthcare costs. No VAT but a sales tax on purchases (but far lower than UK VAT rates).

Eventing, and competing in general, is definitely more expensive. Kind of makes a mockery of all those complaining about how expensive BE is - it's really not!

 

[Cragrat]

Kind of makes a mockery of all those complaining about how expensive BE is - it' really not!

My complaint about BE is what exactly our money is spent on? Does it really take the rider registration fees, horse registration fees, and higher entry fees to support the national structure? Unaffiliated has just as good quality courses, an increasing range of championship series, with significanlty lower costs.

 

[I'm Dun]

No not 4 x higher and a lot of taxes are indirect so although Government income tax is less, there is federal tax on top as well as medicare tax not to mention private healthcare costs. No VAT but a sales tax on purchases (but far lower than UK VAT rates).

Eventing, and competing in general, is definitely more expensive. Kind of makes a mockery of all those complaining about how expensive BE is - it' really not!

I dont think you can compare the UK and US competition scene as like for like. They are totally different. The costs of hunter shows run into tens of thousands. The way horses are kept is different with lots being based permanently with a trainer at a huge cost, etc etc.

 

[LEC]

My complaint about BE is what exactly our money is spent on? Does it really take the rider registration fees, horse registration fees, and higher entry fees to support the national structure? Unaffiliated has just as good quality courses, an increasing range of championship series, with significanlty lower costs.

Their staff wages at one point were insane but I think have been cut back since Covid. My big annoyance is they bank with Coutts who are not cheap….

 

[RachelFerd]

Compared to UK or US, or both?

I'm guessing that fuel being cheaper in America (& Australia) might be a factor too in the overall cost of competing?

Probably not cheaper when you've had to take a day off work and drive for 8hrs to get there!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My big annoyance is they bank with Coutts who are not cheap….

Jesus christ, I didn't know this! That's not very good PR really is it...

 

[ihatework]

My complaint about BE is what exactly our money is spent on? Does it really take the rider registration fees, horse registration fees, and higher entry fees to support the national structure? Unaffiliated has just as good quality courses, an increasing range of championship series, with significanlty lower costs.

And often piggy backing off the investment into BE courses funded by paying BE members!

 

[SibeliusMB]

I dont think you can compare the UK and US competition scene as like for like. They are totally different. The costs of hunter shows run into tens of thousands. The way horses are kept is different with lots being based permanently with a trainer at a huge cost, etc etc.

The US is so large and so diverse in its geography, horse keeping practices, riding disciplines, and cost of living that it's impossible to paint it with one broad stroke. I've kept my horse at large boarding barns with a pretty robust lesson and show program as you are referring to above. I've also kept horses at small, private farms where I'm the only boarder (livery) and did everything myself. Just like looking around here in the UK and seeing a vast difference in livery options (DIY/part/full livery, full facilities vs. grass livery, competition focused vs. happy hackers, etc), the same diversity exists in the US, only times about 100 and throw in vastly different geographic and climate differences too.

I can't speak much for the eventers as I'm primarily a jumper rider with a history in our hunter and equitation divisions as well (only evented at two recognized competitions, back in 2007). Horse showing in general has gotten insanely more expensive since the development and popularity of the big facilities like Wellington, WEC Ocala and Tryon. They've about killed the local USEF rated shows that used to be everywhere and kept things reasonably affordable. Now, most training barns want to go to a big facility and show for several weeks at a time as it's more economical and easier for the barn, versus taking clients to a bunch of weekend or day shows. There are still some grassroots horse trials that will be significantly more affordable, just like there are still local/school shows that are a fraction of the cost of our USEF "rated" (affiliated) competitions. However, if one has any recognized eventing/rated horse show goals, they will have to pay what it costs to play.

Being here in the UK and seeing these one-day affiliated BS and BD competitions is a breath of fresh air, seriously. People show up at their designated time (no waiting around from 5am to 8pm, what!??), jump their round, and go home, having spent no more than 50 quid. Mindblowing to an American who hasn't seen that in probably 15 years now. The last USEF rated show I did was in 2017, and it cost me about $900 to jump four classes and stay over two nights.

Eventing is still cheaper than the USEF shows for those in the hunter and/or jumper worlds, but it sounds like the gap is closing and eventing is getting more expensive too. In some parts of the country, competitors will have to travel 12+ hours to get to a recognized event as well...not cheap.

• The median household income in the US in 2019 was $68,703
• The average annual real wage in 2019 in the US was $65,836
• The weekly median earnings for full-time wage or salary workers in the United States in the second quarter of 2021 amounted to $990. It translates to a yearly income of approximately $51,480. Any amount above that should theoretically be considered a good salary; however, it is not as easy as that. What is considered a good salary in one city may not be so in another. Other factors that determine a good salary are the type of job, level of education, and sadly, even gender and race.
  
  Significantly lower taxation as well.
  
  In uk:The ONS tells us that in April 2021, median weekly earnings for full-time employees went up by 4.3 per cent compared to the previous year, meaning that the average person took home £611 per week, or approximately £31,772 p.a.
  
  I make that a 62% increase in wages?

Some places in the US, this applies, other places, it does not. Cost of living varies WILDLY across the US. That $68K can do a lot in the middle of nowhere (where there are fewer options to keep and compete a horse)...in the horsey hotspots that's barely enough to cover board and have a living wage. There's a very interesting thread on the Chronicle forums right now talking about how a six-figure salary isn't enough to live in a metro area and keep/compete a horse (in hunters). And you know what? It's true. I lived in the D.C. metro area and did just fine for myself - I could afford one, maybe two horse shows a year (doing everything myself, no trainer, and keeping costs to a minimum) and that's assuming I went without new clothes, holiday trips, and the luxuries my non-horsey friends enjoyed in that city. I kept my horse at a private farm, no trainer program, occasionally hauled out to a lesson or clinic, kept expenses low whenever I could. Now, I make that (barely) six-figure salary and I still cannot afford to compete regularly at the USEF rated shows. And my horse cost me $8K, not the $70,000+ people are now asking for (and getting) for a 3' childrens hunter type that 10 years ago would have been a $15-20,000 horse.

 

[Wishfilly]

The US is so large and so diverse in its geography, horse keeping practices, riding disciplines, and cost of living that it's impossible to paint it with one broad stroke. I've kept my horse at large boarding barns with a pretty robust lesson and show program as you are referring to above. I've also kept horses at small, private farms where I'm the only boarder (livery) and did everything myself. Just like looking around here in the UK and seeing a vast difference in livery options (DIY/part/full livery, full facilities vs. grass livery, competition focused vs. happy hackers, etc), the same diversity exists in the US, only times about 100 and throw in vastly different geographic and climate differences too.

I can't speak much for the eventers as I'm primarily a jumper rider with a history in our hunter and equitation divisions as well (only evented at two recognized competitions, back in 2007). Horse showing in general has gotten insanely more expensive since the development and popularity of the big facilities like Wellington, WEC Ocala and Tryon. They've about killed the local USEF rated shows that used to be everywhere and kept things reasonably affordable. Now, most training barns want to go to a big facility and show for several weeks at a time as it's more economical and easier for the barn, versus taking clients to a bunch of weekend or day shows. There are still some grassroots horse trials that will be significantly more affordable, just like there are still local/school shows that are a fraction of the cost of our USEF "rated" (affiliated) competitions. However, if one has any recognized eventing/rated horse show goals, they will have to pay what it costs to play.

Being here in the UK and seeing these one-day affiliated BS and BD competitions is a breath of fresh air, seriously. People show up at their designated time (no waiting around from 5am to 8pm, what!??), jump their round, and go home, having spent no more than 50 quid. Mindblowing to an American who hasn't seen that in probably 15 years now. The last USEF rated show I did was in 2017, and it cost me about $900 to jump four classes and stay over two nights.

Eventing is still cheaper than the USEF shows for those in the hunter and/or jumper worlds, but it sounds like the gap is closing and eventing is getting more expensive too. In some parts of the country, competitors will have to travel 12+ hours to get to a recognized event as well...not cheap.


Some places in the US, this applies, other places, it does not. Cost of living varies WILDLY across the US. That $68K can do a lot in the middle of nowhere (where there are fewer options to keep and compete a horse)...in the horsey hotspots that's barely enough to cover board and have a living wage. There's a very interesting thread on the Chronicle forums right now talking about how a six-figure salary isn't enough to live in a metro area and keep/compete a horse (in hunters). And you know what? It's true. I lived in the D.C. metro area and did just fine for myself - I could afford one, maybe two horse shows a year (doing everything myself, no trainer, and keeping costs to a minimum) and that's assuming I went without new clothes, holiday trips, and the luxuries my non-horsey friends enjoyed in that city. I kept my horse at a private farm, no trainer program, occasionally hauled out to a lesson or clinic, kept expenses low whenever I could. Now, I make that (barely) six-figure salary and I still cannot afford to compete regularly at the USEF rated shows. And my horse cost me $8K, not the $70,000+ people are now asking for (and getting) for a 3' childrens hunter type that 10 years ago would have been a $15-20,000 horse.

Are there any options to show Unaffiliated in the US? Or if you want to jump is your only option the USEF shows?

(No real reason for asking except nosiness, so feel free to ignore!).

 

[SibeliusMB]

Are there any options to show Unaffiliated in the US? Or if you want to jump is your only option the USEF shows?

(No real reason for asking except nosiness, so feel free to ignore!).

There are unrated (unaffiliated) options for sure. Everything from local schooling shows to state associations that will run their own show series. So people that want to earn points for year end awards and qualify for that local association's finals can, but those shows and those series aren't USEF rated. Most of these shows run entirely with volunteers and staff, where the USEF shows are run by pros.

Cheaper options for those that don't have rated aspirations.

 

[teapot]

Their staff wages at one point were insane but I think have been cut back since Covid. My big annoyance is they bank with Coutts who are not cheap….

What you need to open a Coutts commercial account and what you need to keep a Coutts commercial account open are two different things though. You may find they offer better banking insurances other companies don’t and when your finances depend on entries and good weather in the UK, amongst other things, it may be of benefit.

Also aren’t Coutts, NatWest and RBS all one and the same these days?

 

[BunnyDog]

I really enjoyed watching Carolina International at the weekend on H&C - top class 4* eventing.. plus 1, 2 and 3* classes on SJ and XC day.

However, I then read the schedule and worked out how much it would cost to event in the US (given that i have a bit of a move to US pipedream....) - I have to say it makes BE look like pocket money....

Carolina International 2*S (US) = entry fee $450.00 + stabling $290.00 + camping $50.00 per night (3 nights - $150.00) TOTAL = $890/£690

Chatsworth International 2*S (UK) = entry fee £143.99 + start fee £30.79 + £16 FEI anti-doping + £150 stabling (inc 2 bedding, not compulsory as many cheaper options locally too) + £95 hook-up (if you need it...) TOTAL = £435 w/hookup and onsite stabling OR £220 without hookup and stabling at an off-site location (£30/1 night)

and at national level...

Caroline International 'Training' (US) - equiv BE100 = entry fee $275.00 + stabling $290.00 (as runs over 2 days - and no bedding included) + camping 1 night $50.00 TOTAL = $615/£470

Kelsall International BE100 (UK) = entry fee £80.95 + £17.45 start fee TOTAL = £98.40


... stark difference in costs!

OK so here's the interesting part that is not included in your calculations. @RachelFerd

VERY few US riders camp on site. Instead we go get a room at hotels. Hotels in this area are not super cheap so figure between $110/$350 a night. Most folks come on Weds and stay through Sunday.

And meals in the area, also not cheap so figure that on top.

Most trucks that pull American trailers are fueled with Diesel and get (on average) 12-16 mpg and have between a 20 gallon and a 30 gallon tank. And Diesel is currently at $5.50 a gallon on average.

It's not an event, but I have a 3 day show coming up in June and my entries will cost around $1k. And that does include 'decent' prize money, Hotel - $600+ Stabling for horse $300 (not included in show fees)

Diesel probably around $200 - Food for me and hubby around $350-$500 (Since it's the MOST POSH horsey area in the country)

So nope.... not cheap here.

This is why I was able to afford both of my English horses. You all spent less producing them than I could.

Em

 

[Fred66]

My complaint about BE is what exactly our money is spent on? Does it really take the rider registration fees, horse registration fees, and higher entry fees to support the national structure? Unaffiliated has just as good quality courses, an increasing range of championship series, with significanlty lower costs.

How many good unaffiliated courses are out there that don’t also run BE ?
I think you will find that the majority of unaffiliated piggyback on BE events. Course builders and fences don’t come cheap, the ground has to be maintained including aerating if necessary (this is rarely done for unaffiliated).
The admin behind running one is quite considerable and for BE this will be a paid role, then their are the costs of set up including commentary for the XC, judges and stewards expenses and lunch / gift packs (probably about 80 volunteers across all roles and disciplines). The venues that host BE are their to make a profit so that is factored in as well as loss recovery for the years when weather impacts and events are loss making.
SJ and Dressage are far easier and cheaper to run, rarely have to cancel because of weather and their entry fees are around the £20-30 mark so personally I don’t think the costs are that bad.

 

[Shinx]

• The median household income in the US in 2019 was $68,703
• The average annual real wage in 2019 in the US was $65,836
• The weekly median earnings for full-time wage or salary workers in the United States in the second quarter of 2021 amounted to $990. It translates to a yearly income of approximately $51,480. Any amount above that should theoretically be considered a good salary; however, it is not as easy as that. What is considered a good salary in one city may not be so in another. Other factors that determine a good salary are the type of job, level of education, and sadly, even gender and race.
  
  Significantly lower taxation as well.
  
  In uk:The ONS tells us that in April 2021, median weekly earnings for full-time employees went up by 4.3 per cent compared to the previous year, meaning that the average person took home £611 per week, or approximately £31,772 p.a.
  
  I make that a 62% increase in wages?

You forgot to include the exchange rate. The average exchange rate for 2021 was 0.727 USD to GBP, so an average UK salary of £611 per week would be worth $840 per week in the US, or roughly $43,703 p.a. So while average salaries are still higher in the US, they're only about 17% higher.

I think the big thing is that the average for UK salaries is a lot flatter than in the US. There are a lot of really rich people and really poor people over there. Earning $100k a year is not extraordinary at all. And none of the average or lower earners are going to be competing in a 2* event.

 

[Michen]

How many good unaffiliated courses are out there that don’t also run BE ?
I think you will find that the majority of unaffiliated piggyback on BE events. Course builders and fences don’t come cheap, the ground has to be maintained including aerating if necessary (this is rarely done for unaffiliated).
The admin behind running one is quite considerable and for BE this will be a paid role, then their are the costs of set up including commentary for the XC, judges and stewards expenses and lunch / gift packs (probably about 80 volunteers across all roles and disciplines). The venues that host BE are their to make a profit so that is factored in as well as loss recovery for the years when weather impacts and events are loss making.
SJ and Dressage are far easier and cheaper to run, rarely have to cancel because of weather and their entry fees are around the £20-30 mark so personally I don’t think the costs are that bad.

Most of the Unaff events are either horse events or cotswold cup. All I went to last year had done aerovated the ground, with success varying depending on the time of year (even BE can't fix that)

 

[Fred66]

Most of the Unaff events are either horse events or cotswold cup. All I went to last year had done aerovated the ground, with success varying depending on the time of year (even BE can't fix that)

But are they run on courses that also hold BE or do they only run unaffiliated?

 

[Michen]

But are they run on courses that also hold BE or do they only run unaffiliated?

I went to two last year that were unaff only and they had worked the ground really well

 

[ycbm]

How many good unaffiliated courses are out there that don’t also run BE ?
I think you will find that the majority of unaffiliated piggyback on BE events. Course builders and fences don’t come cheap, the ground has to be maintained including aerating if necessary (this is rarely done for unaffiliated).

Before BE decided to drop the levels, lower height unaffiliated eventing was commonplace.

Just because unaffiliated events are now largely held over courses which also host BE does not mean that unaffiliated eventing is dependent upon or freeloads on BE subscriptions.

If anything, at commercial places like Eland, I would suggest that it is all the non BE activity for which that course is hired which enables it to be available for BE at all.
.

 

[Fred66]

I wasn’t suggesting it freeloaded, what I was saying was that the standard and effort required for BE allows those same venues to have the facilities available for hire for other events as well.
Also many unaffiliated events prices have risen making the differential in prices not too big in some instances
The organisation standard across unaffiliated varies widely whilst for BE it is fairly consistent.
Also the entry cost price of unaffiliated is getting closer to that of BE.
I am a big fan of the unaffiliated and not trying to decry it but equally I don’t think BE are in it to make a huge profit and think the charge is not extortionate

 

[Reacher]

The unaff ode over BE courses near me are run by the organisers of the same BE event so I would have thought the entry fees for the unaff events “piggybacking” on the BE ones help pay for the BE course

 

[Fred66]

The unaff ode over BE courses near me are run by the organisers of the same BE event so I would have thought the entry fees for the unaff events “piggybacking” on the BE ones help pay for the BE course

All the courses local to us don’t allow unaffiliated events until after the BE ones have taken place. Many of the unaffiliated are the week or two after making use of the fact that the course is still flagged, arenas are still set up, xc fences are built and in place.
I was under the impression that this was the case countrywide, where BE and unaffiliated both run at the same venue

 

[Reacher]

All the courses local to us don’t allow unaffiliated events until after the BE ones have taken place. Many of the unaffiliated are the week or two after making use of the fact that the course is still flagged, arenas are still set up, xc fences are built and in place.
I was under the impression that this was the case countrywide, where BE and unaffiliated both run at the same venue

Yes same up here - what I mean is in our case Cumbria Horse Trials get entry fees for both the BE and the unaff competition (running a week or 2 later) over a particular course.

ETA I guess you are saying BE miss out on entry fees and i’m saying the venue /organisers gain entry fees.