Eventing Fence Judge 'Expenses'

[doveys]

This is a general 'whinge' and as such open to all, but particularly aimed at my fence judge colleagues.

Does anybody else feel as I do, that fence judges should be compensated with some form of expense remuneration for giving up their time to volunteer at events. With the effects of the 'financial crisis', everyone is feeling the pinch. The price of fuel is the biggy for volunteers so isn't it about time that volunteers received a nominal mileage allowance of perhaps £10.00 per volunteer per day. After all dressage judges and show jumping judges receive expenses for their time.

Whilst I appreciate that all money is tight these days, it hasn't stopped BE putting up it's entry fees or membership costs. Most events look after their fences judges excellently, they most of all realise that without the volunteers there would be no event as do the competitors. Most events provide a packed lunch and beverages for their volunteers who provide their time on very long days and in all weather conditions, free of charge. However it now seems that even this is under threat. I have recently received FJ joining details for an up coming event and have been informed that we will now have to provide our own lunch, where this was provided last year!! If this is the way all events will be going, I can see that many judges will withdraw their services entirely.
It is a very sad situation, I thoroughly enjoy Fence Judging, but a time must come (and I'm afraid, not too distant) when I will have to say 'Enough is enough'.

It is worth mentioning that I do no compete, so I am not 'giving back' as some competitors do, I do it because I enjoy it. Am I wrong, am I in a minority? I would be very interested to hear any comments.

 

[TGM]

I must say that my daughter and I volunteer at a BE event (although we don't BE ourselves), but it is a two hour round trip for us and with the price of petrol at the moment I am debating whether we can afford to continue doing it. I suspect the same is true of many other volunteers unless they happen to live very close to the event.

 

[doveys]

TGM thanks for this. You volunteer at one event and are considering the costs involved, I do around 20 throughout the season so you can imagine my costs.

 

[Maesfen]

TGM thanks for this. You volunteer at one event and are considering the costs involved, I do around 20 throughout the season so you can imagine my costs.

You obviously enjoy it otherwise you wouldn't do so many and they all can't be local to you so perhaps cut some of the further away ones down a bit is the logical suggestion.
I personally don't like the idea of a fence judge being paid although I do think they all should have decent refreshments provided as they are long days; I just think being paid would put too much pressure on them as well and it would certainly put pressure on many of the small events that have a job to break even because every other volunteer official from dressage writers to arena party would want the same treatment; it would run into thousands out of the budget.

 

[Natch]

Ive volunteered at BE and other events, and refreshments are extremely welcome, and one event I did had a £10 expenses for all, which was very much appreciated.

I think its appalling to remove the few perks volunteers get, its a long and often thankless day.

 

[Stacey6897]

These events wouldn't happen if it weren't for volunteers which is why I volunteer, I enjoyed taking my horse out and plan to again someday, want to give something back, I'm not after payment for it, after all, I manage to scrape together enough for fuel to participate.

 

[Lizzie66]

The OP isn't talking about being paid, she is just suggesting that it shouldn't cost volunteers to do the job either.

Most fence judges I've seen are in 4x4 and therefore probably only getting about 30 miles to the gallon out of their vehicle. So it probably does cost fence judges at least a couple of gallons of fuel to do the job (around £12 at todays petrol prices).

So a nominal £10 towards their fuel or 20p a mile would be reasonable.

 

[miss_molly]

I feel your pain. Last year I volunteered at 2 BE events. I was very well looked after and thanked by competitors and organisers. I would have done it this year but its about an hour each way and the cost of fuel is too much to justify this, as well as giving up a days work. I think some form of mileage would be a good idea then I would be more tempted to volunteer this year.

 

[Ali27]

My local x country course gives volunteers a £10 voucher for their shop/ use of course and refreshments which I think is good!

 

[*hic*]

Part of my role over this weekend was to hand out over a thousand pounds worth of schooling vouchers to volunteers, the other choice for them was a bottle of wine and I handed out several cases of various decent wines. That's on top of feeding and watering them all day.

I do volunteer at a number of other venues and am well aware which ones you need to take your own food and drink for as what is provided is either insufficient or inedible.

There are often over a hundred volunteers at an event so you can't exactly just pick out the fence judges as worthy of some form of contribution to expenses. The "perks" they get come straight from the organisers' pockets and are nothing to do with BE but if it was required to pay each volunteer a contribution then that part of the fees which is in the control of the organisers would very soon increase dramatically.

Now, I have felt that it would be worth it for the good of the sport to have "professional" fence judges to iron out some of the "interesting" decisions, safety issues etc that I see but there would be an immediate impact on costs and competitors, who of course are the ones that have to pay, will not afford this.

 

[TGM]

TGM thanks for this. You volunteer at one event and are considering the costs involved, I do around 20 throughout the season so you can imagine my costs.

I should point out that the BE event is on top of helping with various PC and RC competitions, although thankfully they are usually a little more local and therefore less of a drain on my petrol tank!

 

[millitiger]

I think expecting hard cash is a little much tbh- the clue is in the name 'volunteer.'

I appreciate a nice lunch and a schooling voucher/money off coupon and wouldn't expect any more.

I do think BE should introduce a rule where each competitor has to volunteer at one event every season or provide a volunteer if they don't want to do it themselves.

 

[*hic*]

I do think BE should introduce a rule where each competitor has to volunteer at one event every season or provide a volunteer if they don't want to do it themselves.

Oh yes definitely, and those who are abusive to volunteers, or whose connections are abusive to volunteers, should be "retrained" by being "encouraged" to volunteer before they can compete again.

 

[doveys]

jemima_too thanks for your reply. If yours is the event in Oxon, then we were very well looked after indeed. The wine was lovely, thank you!
I understand your thoughts on possible 'professional' fence judges, but my concern would be whether there would be enough to go round!! I don't want to be paid for doing 'the job', I'm just saying a contribution towards expenses would be appreciated.

 

[depurple1]

I've never volunteered for BE, but I am a motor racing marshal, which is like fence judging in the motor racing world. It is a very similar situation there.

We don't receive any expenses, and rarely any lunch or refreshments. It is often a long day, mainly standing up, and can also be quite dangerous at times. I appreciate that it would be impossible for clubs to pay everyone expenses as some of the meetings are run to really tight budgets. Plus if people are getting paid by the mile, you would end up with "cheap" rather than "good".

Most organising clubs try to thank us in some way - one gives us £5, several organise raffles for things like wine/chocolates (race teams also donate prizes sometimes), some do prize draws for things like driving days and one club organises a marshals' track day. Maybe BE could do something similar?

The thing that does make me a bit cross is that most people (drivers, their guests and the public) don't realise that we are volunteers, and quite often have a go at the marshals if there is a problem.

There is a scheme whereby drivers can do a day of marshalling in order to count towards a license upgrade. Most who do are amazed at the attitude of their colleagues towards us and the little regard they have for our efforts or our safety. Certainly it makes them appreciate marshals more, and it may also help in BE if competitors had to do a day of fence judging.

 

[VoR]

Just to play 'Devil's Advocate' volunteers are volunteers, for 10 years I went out 2 or 3 times a week in uniform as a Special Constable facing a number of dangerous situations and without pay or for the most part expenses (other than a very small 'boot allowance' once a year). I did this because I wanted to, to give something to the community I lived in and never looked to get paid.

I now volunteer at BE events, BUT I only do a couple a year and a few Unaffiliated some I am rewarded for doing 10 hours or so a day with a voucher for a saddlery, which is nice but not asked for, others I do to offer help to our RC and Hunt with no specific 'reward'. Anyway, the key is I do this close to home, at BE events we have a number of volunteers who travel a bit further but if they didn't then there would probably people who live locally who could and would help out.

What I'm trying to say is, most people who volunteer surely do this for the love of the sport or to help their local BE venue, club or hunt, there is a choice which you can make to volunteer or not to at any given event, in the knowledge that at some you will not be 'rewarded' for doing so.

 

[MagicMelon]

I wouldnt mind doing it for 'free' as in no money, but its nice to be appreciated like to be given plenty of food on the day and perhaps a schooling voucher round the course - thats a great idea and one I've never been offered before.

 

[VoR]

I wouldnt mind doing it for 'free' as in no money, but its nice to be appreciated like to be given plenty of food on the day and perhaps a schooling voucher round the course - thats a great idea and one I've never been offered before.

You are going to the wrong places MM....I suppose Somerset is a bit far south for you

 

[Rana]

I'm a regular fence judge who also dabbles in some timekeeping. We do approx 30 days a year. We attempted to cut down this year, but it hasn't really worked!

For me, money isn't the issue. We were very touched to be offered some money towards fuel by one event earlier in the year. We couldn't possibly accept it, but it was a lovely gesture and very much appreciated.

Refreshments are essential, a gift of some sort is very nice and is always welcomed! One event local to us offers a glass of wine at lunchtime, which doesn't cost them much but is great - the organisers come round personally, ask what you would like, and stop for a quick chat, so it's another person checking on your when you're freezing your bottom off in a windy field. Another event manages 4 tea runs in a day and a separate cake run, as well as a BBQ in the evening and a free gift. Needless to say they're on my favourites list!

For me though, the deal breaker, is any form of rudeness from either event organisers or fence judge organisers. If I don't feel appreciated (and it takes nothing to say thank you!), I refuse to go back. So far I've only blacklisted 3 events for that reason, considering how many we do, that's not a bad ratio!

And for whoever mentioned 4x4's and 30mpg....I dream of 30mpg, I get about 20 lol. We only use my 4x4 for events where we might well need 4WD (Tweseldown when the sand is deep for example!!), and for others we use my husbands van as one of his company benefits is free fuel. If we have to use mine, it costs me approx £45 to travel to an event which is 1.5 hours away. A considerable amount, especially if that event also wants you to provide your own food and drink, and don't even offer a thank you at the end of the day.

In short, I enjoy fence judging, I don't expect payment, but some recognition of the costs involved and appreciation is necessary

 

[Stacey6897]

Volunteers shouldn't be paid, BE shouldn't pay them, if they did, there would be minimum wage, employment law blah blah to consider, never gonna work

I've stewarded at BD, BE, riding club and motocross events, and have been happy with my prime spectator spot and some refreshments

I do like the idea of membership involving volunteering, what about a membership fee discount? One ODE I volunteered at offered a free XC session to all volunteers as well as refreshments, brilliant!

 

[Goya]

As an organiser of Rc events as well as being a volunteer for BE/BD I can really appreciate that it would be far to costly to offer expenses to fence judges/ writers etc.
However I do often feel aggrieved at being offered a schooling voucher as I don't have a horse any more! Especially when they tell you it is not transferable so I can't even give it to a friend.

 

[TGM]

Volunteers shouldn't be paid, BE shouldn't pay them, if they did, there would be minimum wage, employment law blah blah to consider, never gonna work

The OP never suggested that she should be paid for her services, but that her travelling expenses should be reimbursed in the same way as they are for dressage judges.

I agree that it is probably not practical to do so, but it does raise the issue that the fuel costs of volunteers are rising, and that quite a few volunteers will cut back on the amount that they do. So not a good time for events to stop providing refreshments etc on the day, as they may end up with a shortage of helpers! Likewise, any rudeness from organisers or competitors may be the final straw which results in them not volunteering again.

 

[fidleyspromise]

To be honest, if it were compulsory for competitors to volunteer then that would put me off joining that membership.

I get one weekend in three off so have very little time to compete (especially with no transport) and the biggest factor for me would be that I would feel intimidated going along to something where I wasn't sure what I was doing or wouldn't know people. I can be very iffy in going to new places and it took me over a year to summon the courage to go to a local venue with my pony.

If I got out competing and got to know people etc then I would be happy to volunteer but at the moment, I know very, very few people and would make myself ill with the prospect of having to volunteer.

I know a few people who stopped volunteering at a local venue because of the snotty attitude of organisers. I do agree that refreshments is a small thing but can make a big difference to a volunteer and make them feel appreciated.

 

[Maesfen]

The OP never suggested that she should be paid for her services, but that her travelling expenses should be reimbursed in the same way as they are for dressage judges.

I think the way that most are thinking is that by paying mileage expenses is the same as being paid; I know I come under that category. I also think that if the events have to do that then they will limit their 'volunteers' to local ones only who might not be as experienced so the ones that want to be paid to attend are cutting their own noses off by being excluded.
As others have said, the clue is in the name - volunteer.

 

[TGM]

I think the way that most are thinking is that by paying mileage expenses is the same as being paid;

My reply was in direct response to the person who said events would then start having problems with employment law, etc. They wouldn't because the helpers would not be employed, just in the same way as dressage judges aren't employed by the event although they are paid expenses.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to supply and demand - if events are overwhelmed with hundreds of people volunteering to help then they don't have to worry about keeping helpers sweet.

However, if they are struggling to get enough people (and I know some are and it is a case of helpers being 'coerced' rather than 'volunteering') then they need to make 'volunteering' more attractive - whether that is through providing a sumptous lunch, giving schooling vouchers or wine, or as the OP suggested, giving travel expenses (although it is clear from this thread that is probably not the best option).

 

[*hic*]

As an organiser of Rc events as well as being a volunteer for BE/BD I can really appreciate that it would be far to costly to offer expenses to fence judges/ writers etc.
However I do often feel aggrieved at being offered a schooling voucher as I don't have a horse any more! Especially when they tell you it is not transferable so I can't even give it to a friend.

If you fancy a volunteer session in October and can spare the diesel come over to Little Downham. You get well fed and a choice of voucher or wine. Tina's very happy to have the voucher used by the person volunteering or by whoever they choose to pass it on to You'd be amazed how often we hear "My daughter / granddaughter / partner / mother / friend says I must take the schooling voucher for them instead of me having a bottle of wine".