Everyone is telling me to try using a flash... should I??

Ben2684

Ben2684

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Brief background: new horse of three months can be fussy in the mouth. Has been ridden quite badly in his past (I've done a lot of digging) and has had harsh bits (gags, Pelhams and even a driving bit) and standing martingales, draw reins etc on to mask problems rather than try and have them worked out. He does not like a strong contact, and hates little/no contact, it needs to be even and light otherwise he can run back, rear, head toss and generally prat around. He will also when stressed chomp his bit repeatedly and this has now formed a bit of a habit. We have got on really well, hacking is great fun and schooling is coming along slowly but progress is steady. Basically I'm teaching him I'm not going to hurt him and gradually he is trusting me, however we are now upping his schooling and starting faster work on hacks. My instructor and riding buddies are all suggesting I put a flash on him as he can open his mouth, lift his head and argue about the pace we are going. This is nothing horrendously dangerous but I would like to only go fast etc when I say not on his terms. I really don't want to. I am stopping the fast work for now and really working on my seat and my leg aids being the main line of communication. He is ridden in a plain nose and and NS verbindend, though I have ordered an eggbut transfer angled bit to try as I have a feeling he may prefer a more stable bit. Should I give the flash a go or is it just masking an issue I need to spend longer trying to sort out??

Sorry if this doesn't make sense!! He is such a poppet but a little tricky to ride, and willing to put the work in long term rather than look for a quick fix!!

White chcolate toblerone for all that made it to the end :)
 
Not a fan of a flash personally, I don't like two types of pressure on the nose.

I quite like a drop noseband, some horses seem to like it as it seems to stabilise the bit in the horses mouth, quite good if you have something fussy that doesn't like the bit to move in their mouth!

I am presuming you have had the usual checks done? (Teeth, saddle, back etc?)
 
Teeth physio etc all up to date and he passed a five stage vetting. Saddle has been checked but is due again next month (New flocking may have settled) 75% of the time he works very happily, the. It seems something triggers a stress response and he starts chomping and at this point it's any pressure mouthwise and we have issues. Really focussing on seat and legs more than hands. Its not helping that I can only ride 2/3 times a week either, I had two weeks off and he was worked 12 days out of 14 and he was much more settled.
 
did try my grackle but he wasn't overly happy and it rubbed his face (he has quite a bony head!) but I did have a bit more control at times but at others his 'toys out the pram' moments were worse if that makes sense, I definitely need to work with him rather than force him to do anything.. kind of make it easy to do the right thing rather than attempt to make him!!
 
The goal has to be to ride without, but there are many roads to Rome and as long as it's fitted correctly and not too tight I can't see that trying him in a flash will hurt. He will quickly enough tell you if he doesn't like it by the sound of him, and it's easily taken off. If it holds the bit stiller in his mouth he might prefer it and it could help you through this stage of training. I know a lot of people on here think flash nosebands are the work of the devil in all situations but that's my two penn'orth.
 
Damnation said:
Not a fan of a flash personally, I don't like two types of pressure on the nose.

I quite like a drop noseband, some horses seem to like it as it seems to stabilise the bit in the horses mouth, quite good if you have something fussy that doesn't like the bit to move in their mouth!

I am presuming you have had the usual checks done? (Teeth, saddle, back etc?)
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Was also going to suggest a drop for stabilising the bit.
Glad you are looking at why he's doing it and not just blindly clamping his mouth shut.
 
I'm another who isn't a fan of flash nosebands but it might be worth giving it a try as a means to an end. Like some of the others have suggested though I tend to use a drop noseband rather than a flash.

Have you tried a Micklem bridle - one of my horses - who is very fussy in his mouth - is much happier in it although another of mine doesn't like it all. You can hire one from somewhere but I can't remember where.
 
I'd try a micklem if you can. I didn't really need one but wanted it and there has been a great difference in my boy. He used to toss his head down and giraffe in most transitions.
 
Should you? Yes, why not? If it doesn't do what you want it to you can always take it off. The people who need remonstrating with are those who just "always" ride with one and can't tell you why, and won't try taking it off. You sound like you have thought about it and understand the reasons for perhaps trying one out. I haven't ridden with a flash for many years but have no problems trying one if I felt it would be appropriate.
 
I think it sounds like you're doing brilliantly with him,especially as you really haven't had him long. If he has a history of being tied down and rushed, I'd carry on as you are, he seems to be responding to your approach.
 
Ben2684 said:
Teeth physio etc all up to date and he passed a five stage vetting. Saddle has been checked but is due again next month (New flocking may have settled) 75% of the time he works very happily, the. It seems something triggers a stress response and he starts chomping and at this point it's any pressure mouthwise and we have issues. Really focussing on seat and legs more than hands. Its not helping that I can only ride 2/3 times a week either, I had two weeks off and he was worked 12 days out of 14 and he was much more settled.
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You have only had him 3 months, ride just 2-3 times a week so to my mind you are still in the learning phase, yes a flash may help but so would doing more consistent work and not doing fast work until you are truly ready, having just ridden him more regularly you have made progress, he sounds as if he needs to be taken slowly until he relaxes properly which could take another 6 months of consistent work, 75% of the time being relaxed is great, he needs to learn that when he gets tense you will allow him to relax and not ask for more than he can give at that time, in other words take the pressure off and focus on something he finds easy until he relaxes again, he will then learn that you are not going to fight and the tense moments should become less frequent.

I would also say try a Micklem, my fussy horse is better in his.
 
What possible issue could there be with trying if he's better then it's another thing you have in the mix to help if it makes him worse you know it's not going to help .
I would try a micklem if you can as well .
 
Damnation said:
Not a fan of a flash personally, I don't like two types of pressure on the nose.

I quite like a drop noseband, some horses seem to like it as it seems to stabilise the bit in the horses mouth, quite good if you have something fussy that doesn't like the bit to move in their mouth!

I am presuming you have had the usual checks done? (Teeth, saddle, back etc?)
Click to expand...

This. Just make sure you have somebody knowledgeable to help you fit it.

Otherwise a micklem or a Mexican grackle
 
Thanks everyone, lots of food for thought, will look into trying out a micklem. Have bitten the bullet and ordered a simple flash noseband. Just a cheap ish one and if it doesn't work I will just stop using it. Will have a look at drop too, not overly experienced with them to be fair.

He is such a good lad I just need to build his confidence. I'm putting the halt (ha see what I did there ;)) on fast work for now and will just keep things quiet and simple to relieve the pressure a tad. We have lights going up in the school in the next couple of weeks so hopefully I'll be able to consistently work him in the school a couple of evenings a week as well as ride out 2-4 times on top. He definitely is calmer when he's ridden more consistently. He is definitely the 'most horse' I've ever had but I can really see his potential. When I get things right he is simply breathtaking to ride. If anyone has read my past posts he is now standing much more calmly to cross roads, and is starting to lower his head consistently for the bridle and head collar. He's a superstar really he just needs to be shown the way :)
 
Are you sure it isn't the lozenge he's objecting to? Many horses hate them no matter what angle they're set at. Flash nosebands just cover up a problem which has not been addressed. I have never known a horse that is comfortable in their bit and bridle to need one. Personally, I would try him in a NS demi anky. It's a single jointed bit that is bent so that it eliminates the usual nut cracker action and the problem of it putting pressure on the roof of the mouth.
 
Might be worth a try. I think the issue people have with them is that because the tend to come standard on every bridle now, everybody seems to use them, even when they most likely don't need to.

But in a genuine situation such as your own, it may be useful.

I would also look at seeing if you can try a Micklem.
 
Wagtail said:
Are you sure it isn't the lozenge he's objecting to? Many horses hate them no matter what angle they're set at. Flash nosebands just cover up a problem which has not been addressed. I have never known a horse that is comfortable in their bit and bridle to need one. Personally, I would try him in a NS demi anky. It's a single jointed bit that is bent so that it eliminates the usual nut cracker action and the problem of it putting pressure on the roof of the mouth.
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I have tried him in a single jointed and he hated it-hadn't paid much thought to the demi anky, that may be my next move if the eggbut isn't a goer...
 
With the micklem... I have had a look-the issue is that I would want the English leather version. For people that have tried it have you noticed an instant difference?? The only hire services I have found give you two weeks from order to haveibg had it returned. Do you think this would be long enough to notice a difference???
 
Ben2684 said:
I have tried him in a single jointed and he hated it-hadn't paid much thought to the demi anky, that may be my next move if the eggbut isn't a goer...
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He might prefer a mullen-mouthed bit, or something with a low port. I am not a fan of holding the moth shut and would prefer to use a drop noseband to give stability.
 
Ben2684 said:
I have tried him in a single jointed and he hated it-hadn't paid much thought to the demi anky, that may be my next move if the eggbut isn't a goer...
Click to expand...

Most single jointed bits have a nut cracker action and also dig into the roof of the horse's mouth when any contact is taken up. The demi anky is curved so that it avoids these two problems and also as it does not have a lozenge, it avoids tongue ppressure too. I find it an extremely useful bit with horses that are fussy in their mouths.
 
I'm another one who'd suggest trying a Micklem. Jazz is quite fussy in his mouth and is much more settled in a Micklem - he's ridden in a loose ring NS verbindend.
 
Well, a little update, took the Bay Bear out today and was like a different horse in an eggbut (still with a lozenge) To the point I'm so annoyed I didn't try it before, I just didn't want to change too much too soon. Settled in the contact, no 'giraffing' and much less rushy. Had a lovely long canter and was able to push him out and bring him back with the slightest squeeze on the reins and my seat. Just hope it wasn't a fluke. Have t discounted the possibility of a micklem but will see how we go. Yard owner has just ordered one and has offered me to try it when it arrives so that's good. First clinic tomorrow so I'm hoping it goes well!! Wish me luck 🍀🍀
 
So have ridden B in a flash for a few lessons and couple of hacks and I thought things had improved. However went for a bit of a marathon ride yesterday (15 miles!!-we got lost) and I needed to get off for a wee. B took this opportunity to scratch his face rather strongly on a tree... so I have taken it off as it is clearly uncomfortable (I removed it on the ride and carried on without) so my last hopes lay in a micklem-I've ordered one to trial and so does anyone know if they need a lingering session or anything to get used to them or can you just swap the bridle and off you go??

Thanks, Ben
 
Just swap and off you go. Just make sure that you give yourself plenty of time to adjust it - there are more places to adjust than normal that can change how it sits on the face a fair bit. So take some time to adjust various bits so that it's comfortably snug everywhere.
Good luck!
You could also try a couple of sessions in conventional bridle with no noseband at all, just to see whether it is an irritation thing.
 
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