Ex Racehorse Classes-surely they should have raced???

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RLT19

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Hi does anyone think that the horses in the Ex racehorse classes shoul'd actually have run on the track? I mean really the SEIB classes - I see that other shows & associations have their own rules. I know of horses that have competed in these classes & they have never run. They have had friends to say they have been in training in a point to point yard & are therefore then eligble. I also know of horses who have been in licensed trainers yards & have never even made it up the gallops - they have only been ridden around the farm (which in some cases is the trainers yard) Then as they've been "in training" they are able to enter the classes. Surely the classes should be for horses who have actually run on a recognised racecourse? Or have seperate prizes/sections - for horses that have actually run & those that have only been in training. I know for a fact that some of these horses who have been "in training" have had a normal education & have been started off & schooled as well as any young event or show horse has been, it is far harder to re-train the horse that has actually been in the string, up the gallops & actually run on a racecourse? Any thoughts anyone? This could well throw up a heated disscussion - be nice to know what you all think! & before you all start - yes I do have an ex racehorse & yes he has run! & yes he has been successful showing & at affiliated dressage & I'm not a moaning minny - I have a small racing connection & I'm also a panel judge for two societies so I see things from both sided! I just see a problem with these classes & I personally think that they should have sepaerate sections for the "in training" horses & the horses that have run!
 
I totally agree with you. However haven't SEIB/ROR now changed it so that there are special categories for those who have raced?

I have recently parted with a little ex racer who has done a lot of the Ex Racers club stuff, but there's no way she'd go up against the pros in the SEIB classes.

From what I've seen they are now pretty much overrun by the likes of Lynn Russell et al, and literally TBs just produced for the showring, where us lot don't stand a chance.

Why advertise any of it though as classes for "ex racehorses" when as you say they don't even need to have had a sniff of a gallops!
 
Our ex racehorse was pulled in top at HOYS in the large hack class this year (dropped to 3rd or 5th in the final pull in). Had been out of racing less than 12 months at that point. Had won over £50k during his career. Yes - he now looks like a show horse, but please don't assume that just because they look like show horses that they have never raced. A lot of people assume that he had not raced before and never bothered checking. We didn't change his name, so his record is easy to find, however, some people with ex racehorses change the name when they register them so their record is harder to find. Doesn't mean to say that they have not raced though.

There are many who were bred to race, have been in training but were not good enough to be racehorses - providing they have been in training and on a racing yard, I don't have a problem with them doing ex race horse classes. It's not their fault they weren't fast enough!
 
Ah the age old arguement! And I'm afraid I totally agree.... I could buy a lovely TB foal, pamper it for a few years so it has no marks or blemishes... stick it at my mates yard for a few weeks and then pamper it some more and then stick it in the show ring....all based on the fact that it has been in training??? Someone needs to look up the definition of race as I was under the impression it is usually a group running against each other in a bid to actually come first, not to spend weeks being taken out every morning and cantered up the gallops???
My other bug bear about SEIB classes is the conformation part? Now where did that bit come from? TB's being bred for racing are bred for their speed, not their size shape and how fancy they look and of course the fact that they have sustained no injuries whilst racing.....
The whole thing needs a revamp! Other shows and associations seem to cover this gap by ignoring blemishes/injuries etc..... but we are talking about a nationally recognised company here, who seem to flout the fact that racehorses do get injuries and blemishes, are not always conformationally correct and most importantly, that they have actually been on a race track!
(Let the riot commence!)
 
If it is a showing class for ex racers, then the conformation is very important. If it is a class for horses that have survived racing, then that is a different thing altogether. I thought the idea was that it was a class to encourage ex race horses to move into a new career (i.e. showing) and once they had done their ex racer classes, they would then move onto hacks/riding horses/hunters depending on what suited them best. If this is the case, then of course the conformation is vitally important.

If hey want classes where conformation does not count, then try dressage, show jumping and eventing where the looks are not of as much importance. Don't forget that showing is all about the overall look of horse and rider.
 
Sorry - no rioting but why call it an ex-racehorse class when it would be more accurate to describe the horses as T/Bs who happen to have found their way into showing etc. An acquaintance of ours took her (genuine) ex-racer to one of these classes at Burghley - he behaved badly as he thought he was about to go racing and had to be swiftly taken back to the lorry park. I agree with you all so far.
 
perhaps when they were started it would have been more accurate to call them "horses bred for racing but either useless at it or retired from racing" classes. Don't know!
 
Exracer classes are to show that the horse has been retrained to do another career... mine does dressage as well as showing classes for ex racers (to show that he has been retrained) (mine even does cross country when owner suddenly has mad fit and hires cross country course)
PS I still love that chestnut in your signature FMM!
 
I dont remember a horse leaving the ring during this class? I do remember a rather nutty chestnut that was going all over the place and bouncing around, cos it was cantering in front of me (I use the word cantering very loosely there as it was nearly out of control at one point, in fact I think it managed to do a whole lap and over take me again!) and my little boy... who has been on a racetrack just bowled along behind him without a care in the world!!! I posted on here about my adventure.... although we didn't get placed it was a wonderful experience.... I think most that show ex racers have already got them in another career such as eventing, dressage etc, but use the showing classes to show how versatile they are to retrain.
 
Ours did dressage at Keysoe for his first few outings and every time they rang the bell to start he did every movement in sideways canter.

Thanks for the chestnut compliment (which one- the cob or the small hunter?) Actually, the middle horse (black one) is a pure TB (by National Trust) but never went on a racecourse. Did eventing, dressage and showing, and most judges thought that he was a warmblood.
 
Mine did all his debuts at keysoe too..... and if they used a gun to start the class, he still wouldn't spook or canter sideways!!! No wonder he was never any good as a racer.... he is far too polite! The one on the right of your siggy - dont you remember I asked you if it was taken at the Amateur Showing show? He is gorgeous!!! (Bet that does a nice dressage test too!)
 
as some one else has said the age old debate!! the little black/dark bay horse in my siggy was as you can tell by one of the pics is a ex racer and im very pround to say when i hopfully get him out in ex racer classes this year that he has run 41 time won 10 and 6 of those over the big fences and has perfect conformation! but i no with his over enthusiasctin brain we will never beat the likes of the "warmblood" horses taht have not racing - even if that is beacuse they were usuless!!

Also to add he was in training for 8 years both in oreland and england and has in the year from being retired compleatly transformed to the point i was talking to his old owners and the were shocked that he can now do dressage and sj!!!
 
Oh yes! She doesn't belong to me any more - I sold her to a lovely family in the South West where she does intermediates and small hunter classes with them. The chestnut on the left is the one who was put up for the unsung heroes competition in H&H (results on Thursday ...) - he is doing para dressage and is currently restricted national champion for his group in his first year of proper dressage at the age of 18! - Not exactly TB material though ...
 
This is Shahzan House at one of his first shows this year (out of training about 3 months then I think) - not sure he completed this class though!
keysoedebs.jpg
 
God you should see mine... very long in the back, built a little downhill to say the least, drags a hind leg.... (throws itself on the floor with colic every couple of months) and competes successfully at affiliated dressage with manners to die for!!! He never won.... came close once! (have had hours of entertainment watching the videos!) But is definately not like "some" of those that appear in the show ring... (in fact, his manners always seem to be better!
 
Debs (as he is called) can be a royal pain in the backside in the ring on some days, and other days (he seems to prefer it when the wind is howling and it is raining hard) he behaves perfectly.

Personally, I would rather ride something that was mannerly, as my days of doing the death defying stuff are long gone.
 
oooooh very nice! Yes I said my days of doing the wall of death were over, that was until I went to work at a racing yard, and I thought my lot were quick! (obscenities were heard for miles apparently!)
 
Interesting little debate this. Take the pic above though, this horse has been on the track and is well produced by a professional. He's obviously been re-schooled and has the condition you'd expect to see in a show horse. Jane Webber is also wearing the right kit for the job. Her jacket fits and hangs beautifully and isn't made from polyester, the whole outfit looks 'just right' and there has been the attention to detail.

The whole picture looks polished and professional, there's no reason why anybody with a well conformed ex racer couldn't take this combination on and beat them but most can't be bothered with the effort or to watch and learn from the pros.

FMM can I please send you some pics of my 4 year old as haven't got a clue what to show him as next year!
 
Difficult one this - doesn't seem fair to exclude all the horses that have 'failed' in training for one reason or another (either soundness or speed).

Equally, entering horses who have barely had a sniff at a racing yard in these classes seems rather against the spirit of the competition!

I have an ex-racer - came out of Doncaster sales 18 months ago - he never ran, trained for a year but was too weak.

Personally I am avoiding those classes like the plague - he was not bought as a show horse - stand a much better chance of getting somewhere in 'normal' competition (he has been eventing)!

I think there is a parallel situation in the BE PAVO young horse classes - full of pros with horses specifically produced to win that particular class (and then sell for a lot of money). 'Normal' young horses stand a much better chance in ordinary sections!
 
Very true CM - the overall picture is extremely important, and some of the pro riders (and many amateurs as well for that matter) make the horse look light and a pleasure to ride (even if they are pulling like a train and are about ti p1ss off at any moment!).

By all means send some pics over - we love seeing what horses are coming out next year - trouble with 4 year olds is they change as they get older. Our small riding horse who won RIHS and was second at HOYS this year was a champion in hand hack as a 3 year old!
 
The whole popularity and success of Rehabilitated Racehorses could be now split into several categories so that perhaps everyone could have a Dip in the Big-Pond??..Rather than having to rack-up against the same Sharks year after year.
 
ArcAngelOvidius I don't understand what you think should be judged in a showing class for ex racers. Showing, by definition is about appearance, which includes conformation and performance. You wouldn't expect any other show class to not take conformation into account - they'd be called an equitation or style and performance class.
 
I'm hoping to show Owen in the exracer classes next April ( chestnut in my signature) fingers crossed that he comes back from his loan home in good condition.
It has taken me 5 years and over £12,000 in vet and physio bills to undo the damage done to him by his racing career, and to get him musculed up and going in the correct way. And so it would be the same for many other proper exracers (with the exception of the lucky few)
So I do feel very strongly that horses that have never seen the racetrack or never been in training are complete cheats to even be entering such a competition.

Owen stands a really good chance of doing well in this class as he moves well and Marjorie and Richard Ramsey both rate him very highly, so fingers crossed that he can now come up with the goods!
 
lol - maybe I've remembered wrong and he never got from the lorry to the arena, but I'm talking about a horse which came 3rd in the Cheltenham Foxhunters in 2005. I do think they should have actually raced, otherwise what's the point.
 
Ex racehorse classes are based on how the horse has adapted to its new career!!!

And as for confirmation - try telling that to the thousands of breeders who are breeding for speed, not looks!
 
But it's a showing class which is looking for a horse that is suitable for showing, much as a showjumping class for exracers would be judged on whether the horse was able to jump. If you had an ex-racer who didn't want to jump coloured fences you wouldn't expect to do well in ex-racer show jumping classes for example, so why should a poorly conformed horse do well in a showing class?
 
Because being on the basis of the versatility of the TB and the fact that the onus is on how the horse has adapted to its new life (being retrained in another sphere) I think that this adaptation should have more bearing than the fact that its county level standard and upwards and has no blemishes/injuries/scars and no manners! What is the point of having a "retrained" race horse class, when the onus is the same as say a ridden hunter... Unfortunately at the moment, ex racers are not categorised llike other horses, lightweight, middleweight, hack, riding horse, hunter, they are all thrown in together, so how can you really have a showing class with so many different types in it? Anyway this post is not about that.... its about all those so called ex racers that have never touched the turf being entitled to compete in these classes..... Which I still say is wrong!
 
I have two little thoroughbreds out of training at the moment. One I bought before she got to the track, they were waiting for her to grow and mature before backing her so she was backed late (in racing standards) but showed no promise at home so I managed to buy her. She still is taking as much skill at turning around as Milo who did race at 2 and 3 and came to me almost straight from the racecourse (he'd raced 3 days before hand) . Both have been used to a different system of management, different style of riding, just he has been hammered a bit more by having raced for 2 years. I would like to show either one in the SEIB classes should they scrub up well enough, we shall see
 
but, apparently there is a whisper that the categorisation of these classes is going to change!
I'd love to show my TB again, however with relentless colic attacks interfering with getting him back into work, its a bit of a losing battle!
 
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