Ex racer, head throwing,sorry long & pics

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Dirty_D

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Just wondered if anyone has any experience/ ideas on an issue i have with Charlie. (Irish ex-racer now 14, had him for 2 years, back checked December, Dentist routinely 6 months, new saddle fitted, no lameness etc)

He has a habit (a very bad one) of throwing his head up vertical when being ridden without a martingale when excited. As far as i can tell it is not discomfort as he works well until something sets him off. Once he is excited thats it, he canters on the spot, swings his quarters, wont move off my leg (even with pony club digs) whether i ignore him, give him more rein, fiddle or hold him tighter it makes no difference. If i tap him either behind the leg or on his neck this makes him worse! It’s like an excited/stress reaction.

I usually have to sit deep, give him the reins and go back to walk, then walk until he calms down but as soon as we go to move again he does the same. He now seems to think he ‘gets’ to walk when he is being naughty which is not what i want at all!
I have regular lessons but again this is where we have come up with the bring him back until he is settled. (and to be honest i tend to wear my martingale just so we can actually get on with stuff, its strange as my running martingale isn’t tight but he works well knowing he can’t get his head up vertical!) Generally he works well, round, not genuinely always on the bit but nice outline, relaxed rythym etc. If he's not he hits the martingale then tends to drop back down again. He is more excitable when hacking (aren’t we all) but again martingale helps with it.

It made me realise how bad it is when i went to a prelim unafil dressage yesterday, went amazing well in the warm up, (i even got my hopes up for more than my usual 40%, more fool me!) but as soon as we left the collecting ring to the main ring (and i mean practically level with the fence) he freaked, i got possibly one 20m trot circle otherwise we cantered, did quarters in nearly all the way round and we did flying changes every leg when we did try to canter! As soon as he gets his head up he can get canter, if i take a hold, we will run backwards, i could have cried and swore i was going to find out the price of horse meat when i got home! Instead im going to see if we can do HC but with a martingale.

I suppose i should try and video it as i know its hard to explain without but i;ve found a couple of photos. I’ve had others at the yard ride him as when your on the floor you just want to scream kick kick kick but it makes no difference when your on! The other thing which i think is related is that he never ever bolts or gets strong, he always backs off. We’ve hacked out and 2 other horses have flown past me not stopping for half a mile and Charlie just canters on the spot until i can get him to move forward to slowly catch up with them. To me it seems like a bit of the old racer in him but i have no idea how to stop the vertical head business. I had a previous ex-racer which showed resistance but to to this extreme!

We only have a loose ring snaffle in, i had originally just a single jointed one but have changed it to a half moon double jointed as he has a small mouth and as i said before he works well in it until excitement kicks in.

Any ideas?????

Photo 1&2 - Working as normal

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Photo 3 & 4 - The problem ( although i do i have the martingale on so not at its worst!)

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I'm sure others will give some better replies but I notice that he has the wrong bend on the left rein even though his head isn't up in the air.

My ex racer has the habit of twisting his head and neck to the right, I tend to just ignore it and he does it less now.

Would a hanging cheek snaffle help as it has a little poll pressure.

Interested too in any thoughts others have!
 
me does that.. did it rather violently yesterday. His back, teeth saddle have been checked... so would love to see what other's say...
 
Do you his behavoir when he gets excited is a brain melt down flip into hyper TB mode? Or more that he sees something exciting/scary and 'decides' that it would be more fun to mess about rather than trot circles.

If its the first, I don't really have any ideas and suspect its going to be a long uphill battle going by Beau 'TB flip out' moments (and he's 1/2 WB!!) fortunately they are v.rare, in general he is just messing about.

I find shouting !HOY! at him quite loudly gets his attention and then I will do something slow and complicated like a figure of 8 with 5m circles at a purposeful walk or a slow jog to try and totally distract him from what ever caused the inital problem. Also the small circles helps break the locked back & neck as they are hard to do.
I realise that this is impractical in a DR test but hopefully if he learns that he cant get away with it else where he will be less likely to try it on.
Or with the martingale could you try tricking him by warming up with it on, and just before you go in taking off the 'martingale' bit so that you just have a breastplate (which I believe is DR legal).

Hopefully someone else will have better ideas. let us know how you go1
 
My TB occasionally does this. He did it at his first 'party', he jogs/canters sideways, bucking, doing flying changes and throwing his head up and down to the extent that hes nearly hit in me the face a few times as he bucks and his head flys up!

I don't have any suggestions i'm afraid except the best thing i've found for my guy is to carry on doing what i was doing and just ignore him! It seems to work for him, although now hes been out and about abit more its only an occasional thing now.
 
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thanks everyone for your posts so far, i now feel better knowing i'm not the only one!

He does tilt his nose which the physio has put down to age/ stiffness and i've just got to keep working on it. I'll have a dig about in the bit box and see what i can find with hanging cheeks though.

I think it's initially evasion but then the TB streak kicks in and he gets into more of a panic with himself. He is quite a chilled out TB generally but when he gets something in his head it takes a while to bring him back down.

I dont think you can warm up with a martingale on under BD but to be honest he is always fine in the warm up, doesnt raise his head at all! It's as soon as we go to main ring, I've emailed the venue to see if they'll let me to HC with the martingale so i can at least try that if they;ll let me.

My judges comments always read along the lines of - Naughty charlie! no polos for charlie,not an easy test, doesnt make it easy for you does he, etc, i do just try and get on with the test and ignore him but i feel its getting worse and i'm going to end up with a broken nose soon!

I might see if my instructor will get one and have a go. In fact i dont know why ive not asked already!
 
I'm so interested in all of your replys aswell. I have a 5year old ex racehorse and when were out she's really good, but at times she does get very excited and throws her head up in the air with her tail right up in the air just dancing and pratting around. She's ridden in a rubber mullen mouth as she's not strong what so ever she just likes to have a dance every now and then.

I've just put it down to her tb ways and the fact that she's young. I'm riding her in a martingale aswell and just seeing how it goes.

This forum is great to find out infortmation etc on ex racers. Brilliant!

I'm glad that my mares not the only one like this lol.
 
Well apart from the Tb tendency to be a twonk, the only thing I can think of is maybe a twinge occurring in that back.

Do you lunge long and low with a pessoa to strengthen? Have you had the hocks checked for osteo/is s/he tracking up ok?
 
Interesting to read this actually as I have another one who does the same.

Mine is purebred arab and works in a lovely outline at home, but if he gets excited, say cantering in a group the head comes up so I have no control and he leaps on the spot.

I did find a martingale and market harborough helped but apart from that havent found a cure! I too have had everything checked and suspect its in the breed.
 
I tried all sorts of bits, removed nosebands, tried a martigale, even a market harborough, had teeth, back and saddle checks done and my ex P2P'er still faffed about with his head. So I thought laterally, removed the bit and tried a Dr Cook. Miracle cure! Worked for us, anyway :)
 
See my other thread in here about my hack this morning this is exactly what my TB ( ex racer started doing today ) He does when he goes to group lessons will just get over excited. I just carry on and try to ignore and he eventually settles down and is slowly getting better. I think may be you just need to keep taking him to shows at every opportunity and gradually the novelty will wear off. I use a running martingale and snaffle as he is'nt really strong just an idiot and I think if he had soemthing to strong in his mouth it woudl make him worse
 
Someone suggested a Dr Cook. I too, would be interested to see how he went in a bitless bridle if he were mine :)

Is there any rhyme or reason to it - what seems to trigger this behaviour? Are you riding him more from the seat and legs than hands?
 
This sounds just like my TB used to be. I tried everything from taking off the flash noseband, drop nosebands, standing and running martingales. Numerous bits including the hanging cheek, seemed to go worse for me in this i think he doesnt like poll pressure. Finally my friend lent me a Neue Schule Team up bit as a last resort, he went like a dream and has done since, really seems to help him stretch his neck down, i also put a poll pad on his bridle cos think he is quite poll sensitive. We've gone from competing at prelim to elementary in one year! Ive tried changing bits back to a normal stainless steel one recently but the problem came straight back, im definately sticking to the Team Up. Good luck!
 
My ex racer does not do this however my 3/4 tb who I broke in used to.

I used to ignore it and he used to carry on doing it, until I started having lessons, my instructor made me dig him in the ribs everytime he did it (even when he was already excited ) as he has to learn this is unacceptable behaviour, he soon learnt not to and now never does.
 
Mine does this, I put a fluffy sheepskin cover on his noseband and he hasn't done it since. I know its a bit of a quick fix idea but I'm hoping eventually the muscle will form in the right place because of it so he no longer does it. He only does it jumping though.

Might be worth a try you can get them really cheap aswell so if it doesn't work not like you spent a fortune :)
 
have you tried a standing rather than a running martingale, the problem with the running is if they chuck their heads the martingale acts on the reins, which in return acts on the bit causing more resistance in the mouth. The standing can just give them a bit of confidence and balance.
 
Kokopelli said:
Mine does this, I put a fluffy sheepskin cover on his noseband and he hasn't done it since. I know its a bit of a quick fix idea but I'm hoping eventually the muscle will form in the right place because of it so he no longer does it. He only does it jumping though.

Might be worth a try you can get them really cheap aswell so if it doesn't work not like you spent a fortune :)
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Second this. My mare used to walk around like a giraffe and I just couldn't get her head down and she had muscle in all the wrong places.

Changed her to a myler comfort bit, an Elevator bridle and a sheepskin noseband cover. The myler worked, she goes well in the elevator and I've been told that they have to look over the sheepskin to see where they are going, hence the head drops;)
 
Hugley interesting.

Oddly, an ex-racer i ride occassionally out hacking is an absolute b**tard for throwing his head up and down and chattering his teeth and yanking the reins out of your hand - he's pulled all the muscles in my shoulder before by doing this. Never does it in the school, just out riding. He did it pretty much non-stop for 3 hours today and its infuriating!! I put it down to sheer excitement as he barely ever gets hacked out.

I have an ex-racer but have not ridden him yet due to being a baby but will be in the summer. I have a feeling he's going to be a handful even though he's an absolute treasure on the ground. At least i'll have some ideas for if he starts the head throwing :)
 
Hi, have you tried pushing him through it? My instructor makes me push my ex racer through the strops and tantrums, not bothering with outline but if he won't trot then he is made to canter and I mean a big, fast canter, putting in circles of varying sizes, until his brain gets back into gear and he starts to realise that it might just be easier if he co-operates.

Lots of horses including ex racers suffer from real tension in certain situations, containing that tension can sometimes lead to a downwards spiral in behaviour, but actually expressing it can be hugely beneficial.

Might be worth giving it a go

Best of Luck xx
 
Mine does this when he is not truely forward from my leg - I work him alot in a pessoa as when he does fight it he doesn't get a reaction as such as he would from a rider and he does 'shut up' and get on with it. I work on lots of transitions,changes of direction etc and he is forced to concentrate rather than pulling the contact away. Give regular stretching sessions as sometimes it can be a result of using muscles he is not used to - you can tell when its a mickey take and when it is a genuine need to stretch out - good luck :D
 
Wimbles said:
Hi, have you tried pushing him through it? My instructor makes me push my ex racer through the strops and tantrums, not bothering with outline but if he won't trot then he is made to canter and I mean a big, fast canter, putting in circles of varying sizes, until his brain gets back into gear and he starts to realise that it might just be easier if he co-operates.

Lots of horses including ex racers suffer from real tension in certain situations, containing that tension can sometimes lead to a downwards spiral in behaviour, but actually expressing it can be hugely beneficial.

Might be worth giving it a go

Best of Luck xx
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I agree with Wimbles to an extent. I've just had my first jumping lesson on my ex racer and he was a star, but he did think he was extremely clever when the last fence of the grid became an oxer! We had some big we hey moments (thank god for neck strap!) but I rode through it and kept him cantering forwards until he settled. I think it is also easy to lift your hands quite high in exciting moments, but if you can keep them low and grab neckstrap for more security and keep going forwards you will have more success.
You may have to take a step back and work through things at a slower and more basic level for a while until he understands what is expected of him. Be patient and good luck!
 
I've had two ex race horses that do this. The first was an ex steeple chaser and I didn't get him until age 11. The other is my current 8 year old. My advice is to remain completely calm as though it is not happening, and maintain your gait (stay in canter or trot or whatever gait he is in and ignore). Keep a still and giving hand. Both horses just stopped doing it eventually. I also find it useful to use a hackamore until they are well schooled and subtle as they very rarely do it at all bitless. I only use the bit once a week with my current boy (as I want to do some dressage with him) and he is far happier. Seems to be a common problem with ex racers.
 
Just another point. I have noticed that it is nearly always on the right rein that they do this. I think it is when they are finding things more difficult. Most race tracks are left tracks and they find it more difficult to bend right.
 
I would try a happy mouth, check his mouth for soreness too.
It sounds like he wants to go foward but can't.

What do you do with your rein, once his head goes up?
Try lots or squeezes (or pony club kicks!) but a light contact so he isnt getting a confusing message.
 
All the usual health checks first... teeth, back, saddle, feet etc. It looks like he's not bending correctly on his left rein. Get your instructor to have a sit on him, this should help to determine the problem.
 
I am afraid this is a race horse thing,mine only does it when he is excited, i try to keep my hands quiet and ignore it.
I a have also changed his bit to a slim curved mouth snaffle which has helped.
 
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