Example of a bad hobby breeder

I would say everything I said on here to the breeders face, I wouldn't consider any of it slander.
Haven't seen the horse posts you mention, and I tend not to comment on a lot of horse threads as don't feel I have enough knowledge. I do feel qualified to comment on posts about GSDs though.
 
eatmyshorts said:
I'm very new to this forum & so far that's the second i've seen picked out, transferred onto here & slated! Not to mention rude comments & assumptions re single pictures where you know nothing about the owner/situation. Apart from downright rudeness (eg. the girl who was told her horse was ugly), there's a young girl on another thread just who's pony is standing with it's head in, & she's being accused of rollkur! How can you tell from one photo is she has a tight rein - she's already said the pony just puts it's head in on it's own. I've also noticed people have started to post & put reasons for eg. fat horses or saddles not sitting right, because they know if they don't they'll be jumped on! In my own case, i was slated for my cob being overweight with nobody knowing the full circumstances eg. the fact that was attending hospital three times a week back then (& currently have been every day recently!) so maybe, despite giving him no feed & keeping him on a starvation paddock, maybe i didn't have time to exercise him every single day, but i did my best.

So, back to this advert - has anyone considered that maybe it isn't a bad breeder, it's just a breeder who isn't very good at writing adverts? Maybe the choke chain is on back to front because the person who exercises the dog is in a wheelchair or has another physical reason they have to lead the dog on the wrong side? The bitches nails don't long too badly overgrown - perhaps the vet doesn't trim them right back because they are black & she doesn't want to cut the quick & hurt the dog? Perhaps she as due to get them done the next day? They state they have only bred two litters, so they certainly don't appear to be overbreeding the bitch. Maybe the other 8 pups were all booked before birth & snapped up at 8 weeks & this one just isn't as good quality (perhaps he's a runt, bless him - he may still make an excellant pet!) hence being left last. You simply just don't know, just like you didn't know in that other advert with the young pony for sale, so you shouldn't be making assumptionsw, unless you are interested in buying the pups, & then of course, & then you'd be phoning to get the full story. Oh, and why does a breeder have to always keep a pup? Is that the law?! Every circumstances is different, perhaps a breeder has a dog with excellent lines & homes waiting etc but no space to keep more themselves?

Has anyone considered that they might get into trouble for reposting other people's adverts & slagging them off? Has anyone looked up the definition of slander?

It's such a shame because there appears to be so much knowledge here & some really nice people, with lots of useful input, but why can't everyone just be nice (or at least be careful or tactful!). If they have to be direct, at least do it when the person involved has actually asked for the opinion? Of course, it's different when it's blatant cruelty, but this, IMHO, & also other posts mentioned, just simply may not be.
Click to expand...

you are being way to senestive , the forum is all about opinions expressed in lots of different ways by lots of different people with lots of different views that's is what's so great about it.
You fight your corner if you chose to ,ignore comments if you chose not to ,but as an example if you post a picture of a fat horse expect to be told its fat.
 
eatmyshorts said:
I'm very new to this forum & so far that's the second i've seen picked out, transferred onto here & slated! Not to mention rude comments & assumptions re single pictures where you know nothing about the owner/situation. Apart from downright rudeness (eg. the girl who was told her horse was ugly), there's a young girl on another thread just who's pony is standing with it's head in, & she's being accused of rollkur! How can you tell from one photo is she has a tight rein - she's already said the pony just puts it's head in on it's own. I've also noticed people have started to post & put reasons for eg. fat horses or saddles not sitting right, because they know if they don't they'll be jumped on! In my own case, i was slated for my cob being overweight with nobody knowing the full circumstances eg. the fact that was attending hospital three times a week back then (& currently have been every day recently!) so maybe, despite giving him no feed & keeping him on a starvation paddock, maybe i didn't have time to exercise him every single day, but i did my best.

So, back to this advert - has anyone considered that maybe it isn't a bad breeder, it's just a breeder who isn't very good at writing adverts? Maybe the choke chain is on back to front because the person who exercises the dog is in a wheelchair or has another physical reason they have to lead the dog on the wrong side? The bitches nails don't long too badly overgrown - perhaps the vet doesn't trim them right back because they are black & she doesn't want to cut the quick & hurt the dog? Perhaps she as due to get them done the next day? They state they have only bred two litters, so they certainly don't appear to be overbreeding the bitch. Maybe the other 8 pups were all booked before birth & snapped up at 8 weeks & this one just isn't as good quality (perhaps he's a runt, bless him - he may still make an excellant pet!) hence being left last. You simply just don't know, just like you didn't know in that other advert with the young pony for sale, so you shouldn't be making assumptions, unless you are interested in buying the pups, & then of course, & then you'd be phoning to get the full story. Oh, and why does a breeder have to always keep a pup? Is that the law?! Every circumstances is different, perhaps a breeder has a dog with excellent lines & homes waiting etc but no space to keep more themselves?

Has anyone considered that they might get into trouble for reposting other people's adverts & slagging them off? Has anyone looked up the definition of slander?

It's such a shame because there appears to be so much knowledge here & some really nice people, with lots of useful input, but why can't everyone just be nice (or at least be careful or tactful!). If they have to be direct, at least do it when the person involved has actually asked for the opinion? Of course, it's different when it's blatant cruelty, but this, IMHO, & also other posts mentioned, just simply may not be.
Click to expand...

As I put about a breeder keeping a pup I'll answer that part first - every responsible breeder breeds to keep or improve the line rather than to get puppies to sell. In fact most prefer to get smallish litters - 4 or 5 rather than 8 or ten as that is less homes to find whereas the "in it for money" set want as many pups as possible.
When space is tight a pup is often placed with a friend so a pup can come back later and the line gets retained.
Without registration the line is lost to the breed. Without health testing no one who knows the breed will touch the litter so why are they breeding?
If you have spent the dosh & time on health testing you shout out about it.
As for as the collar -There may be a reason the collar is used wrong sided but no excuse for a choke chain being around a dog's neck without a lead attached.
The bitch, from the photo, appears to have long feet and slack pasterns -the owners chose to use that photo.


BTW Truth is legal and I can say with certainty that no slander has occured on this board, nor has any libel.
 
It was me that brought up the subject of the bitch's feet.
As we were discussing the rights and wrongs of breeding dogs on this thread, my query was entirely relevant and justified. I am no expert on GSD but those feet looked wrong to me so I asked those that know the breed.
No slagging, no slating, just a question. Is breeding this bitch a good idea.
The world is full of stray abandoned mongrel dogs that can't find a loving home, without poor quality unregistered pedigree dogs being deliberately bred to possibly add to the numbers, simply to make money. Of course it happens and will always happen, just as I will always condem it, as loudly and publicly as possible.
 
Star_Chaser said:
I do because no matter what the demand (and for those breeds there is always a demand as well as a VERY high turnover) they are still breeding dogs that have not had the basic of health tests. It costs less than the price of a puppy to health test most dogs its not a huge investment to make. Its great if they all go to members of the family but will she be able to take them back when things go wrong or help the owners if they go blind or have other health problems later on in life?? Dogs come back for numerous reason some down to death or marriage break up loss of home but they still need breeder help. Its easy to breed its not so easy to pick up the pieces....

I get so many enquiries from the KC website for spaniels which I don't actually breed but own, I can see why anyone would want to breed them its very lucrative.
Click to expand...

Just to reiterate, I did not actually say my friend's dog was not health tested an or/KC registered. I don't know those details. I was just pondering - she is not a 'dog breeder' per se but she bred a couple of litters so that would class her as a hobby breeder.
 
Asides from the health tests, KC registration, etc, surely you wouldn't breed if you didn't have homes for all the pups and a few on standby in case of a large litter. And if you did have pups left, you would advertise them through the relevant breed club.

I plan to breed my mal bitch when she's old enough, and providing, paws crossed, she has good hips, elbows and eyes. She has a fantastic pedigree in both working and showing, and is already getting a good reputation in harness. I plan to get her out to some champ shows this summer; the few open show's she's done, she's won her class, and gone through to groups.
We obviously will keep a pup, and already have homes lined up for 2 possibly 3 others.

I wouldn't dream of advertising anywhere else than the breed club, and word of mouth.
 
s4sugar said:
(Snipped)

BTW Truth is legal and I can say with certainty that no slander has occured on this board, nor has any libel.
Click to expand...

Really? Truth is a defence against an action in defamation (I'm in Scotland and that includes both slander and libel) but it must be provable to the satisfaction of a court of law.

The header to this thread is "Example of a bad hobby breeder".

What evidence is there that this breeder (who can be identified from the email address) is a "bad breeder"? Or even "a hobby breeder"?

Most of the criticisms have come from people saying not enough detail is given in the advert (e.g. health tests, etc).

An advertisement is a "Notice to treat", nothing more, nothing less. If I choose to place an advertisement "Dog for Sale" (i.e. even less information than this advertiser) does this make me an even worse person? That is ridiculous! Anyone interested in buying the dog would email me and ask their questions.

An advertisement is an inducement for an interested party to make contact and discuss details. It is not a contract nor even an offer of a contract.

I agree absolutely with Eatmyshorts about the defamatory comments posted on this type of thread. They are extremely dangerous to the publishers of HHO and I am surprised they are tolerated.

Would I reply to this advertisement? No, and I happen to be looking for a GSD. The dogs do not comply with my idea of what I am looking for in a GSD. Clearly, they appeal to some as the advertiser seems to have sold puppies. But have things got so bad that "the thought police" tell us what we must like and what we must own? God help us if that is the case as there are going to be a lot of unmarried people about who don't conform to the "standard" of a Miss World or a Mr Universe!

There is a very old legal term, Caveat Emptor. In short, let the buyer beware. We live in a democratic society in which we have a reasonable amount of freedom to make bloody fools of ourselves in whatever way we so choose -- so long as we do not interfere with the rights of others. So long as I am able, I will fight for the fools of this world and their rights to remain so. Long may they live!:D
 
Dry Rot said:
Really? Truth is a defence against an action in defamation (I'm in Scotland and that includes both slander and libel) but it must be provable to the satisfaction of a court of law.

The header to this thread is "Example of a bad hobby breeder".

What evidence is there that this breeder (who can be identified from the email address) is a "bad breeder"? Or even "a hobby breeder"?

Most of the criticisms have come from people saying not enough detail is given in the advert (e.g. health tests, etc).

An advertisement is a "Notice to treat", nothing more, nothing less. If I choose to place an advertisement "Dog for Sale" (i.e. even less information than this advertiser) does this make me an even worse person? That is ridiculous! Anyone interested in buying the dog would email me and ask their questions.

An advertisement is an inducement for an interested party to make contact and discuss details. It is not a contract nor even an offer of a contract.

I agree absolutely with Eatmyshorts about the defamatory comments posted on this type of thread. They are extremely dangerous to the publishers of HHO and I am surprised they are tolerated.

Would I reply to this advertisement? No, and I happen to be looking for a GSD. The dogs do not comply with my idea of what I am looking for in a GSD. Clearly, they appeal to some as the advertiser seems to have sold puppies. But have things got so bad that "the thought police" tell us what we must like and what we must own? God help us if that is the case as there are going to be a lot of unmarried people about who don't conform to the "standard" of a Miss World or a Mr Universe!

There is a very old legal term, Caveat Emptor. In short, let the buyer beware. We live in a democratic society in which we have a reasonable amount of freedom to make bloody fools of ourselves in whatever way we so choose -- so long as we do not interfere with the rights of others. So long as I am able, I will fight for the fools of this world and their rights to remain so. Long may they live!:D
Click to expand...

No one has posted a name nor an email address, just a forum link but from that you can find their previous litter which will raise even more red flags.
Caveat emptor does apply but so does our right to warn people what to look for & what to avoid.
 
So they bred her back on her next season after her first litter? Buyer beware, indeed :)

I've nothing really much more to say on the subject, I have not libelled, slandered or slagged the sellers of these puppies, caveat emptor indeed, if people want to spend that sort of money on a puppy, it is entirely their own right, but I feel it is my right on an open forum to tell people they can get much more for their money if they so desire :)

ETA: So that's just over 5k for two litters within months of one another with minimal outlay (no registrations or apparent health tests). Gosh, I'd be rich if I wasn't so damned principled....
 
Last edited:
ester said:
I'm assuming GSDs should not have floppy ears....
Click to expand...

Nope, its a serious fault, this is what the breed standard says about ears.

Ears
Medium-sized, firm in texture, broad at base, set high, carried erect, almost parallel, never pulled inwards or tipped, tapering to a point, open at front. Never hanging. Folding back during movement permissible.
 
ester said:
I'm assuming GSDs should not have floppy ears....
Click to expand...

They are floppy when they are pups but then they must stand up... usually one stands before the other :rolleyes:

However that pups ears dont look right.......

I have had GSDs before and I honestly wouldnt buy one of those ones... to be fair.... but Im fussy hence the long time to find a chi (and I wasnt looking in wrong places regardless of what people think I have seen some dreadful pups with 'paprs' linking them to good lineage) no thanks very much lol
 
Last edited:
So breeding from my KC mini schnauzer to pay for a holiday sounds like a definite no no then.........as she wanders off to what was NL....which is idylic in comparison to this lot it seems.

Would seriously like to find a good stud........wouldn't we all!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top