Excessive livery cost - what would you do?

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Luckylocalian

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Hi all

Little dilemma and I would love some advice. I sent my horse to a pro who wanted to try him (because I am having a really tough time with work and money and I am very little and am struggling to xc my 17'2+ youngster). I asked the groom at my livery yard (who lives on site) and she said I would only have to pay a box retainer for the time he was off of the yard. I told the head girl and all the grooms that he was going for at least a week and was not sure when he would be back. All good, pony goes off on trial I go to stay at my parents for a week's holiday to take advantage of free time!

Anyway, after the weekend's perfomance my pony put in I make the heartbreaking decision to sell him and to leave him at the pro's to run him a few more times and find the best possible home for him. I have never sold a horse before and I am devestated (he is the only one I have) but it is the best decision for him and I have to do what's right for him. So the yard calls me at the weekend to tell me that I have to pay full livery (£105 a week) for the time that he is not there and that the groom I spoke to got it wrong. After lots of tooing and froing I finally get to talk to the owner face to face (through some serious avoiding). I was very nice and explained how dificult this was and that I made the decisions I made based on the information I was given and there was no way that I could afford to pay full livery and my pro fees when the horse was not there. The owner shouted at me repeatedly and was extremely rude saying I would pay the whole £500 (she wants me to pay for a month's notice if I am not bringing him back even tho I explained this to the grooms and was told I would not have to pay this). I asked if she could backdate my notice by a week as a compromise for being given the wrong info and she shouted (repeatedly) "no you will pay". Then I asked if instead she could deduct cost of food and bedding and I would pay the rest and she refused shouting at me aggressively etc etc. In the end she said I pay it or she sues me. So I asked finally if I could take the feed, bedding etc that I was paying for and not using and she almost hit me she was so mad!!! All the time I was speaking normally and she was going wild at me!

I am so upset as I have to sell my horse and I did everything by the book and they are making it impossible for me. If I have to pay over £1200 on livery this month it will bankrupt me. I moved everything I own off the yard yesterday but I don't know what the best way to proceed is. Any advice?? So sorry for long message!!! I don't know how I keep coming across these nutters, I am a nice person honest!!! xx
 
Do you think it is unreasonable to not pay. I have actually already paid £105 for the week that he has not been there but I don't want to pay another £500 for a month's notice!!
 
What does your contract say?

I'm not sure if you could have a discount as I've never had a horse on full livery, but on DIY you'd have to pay the normal amount even though you horse isn't there. I am at the moment as I've sent mine away to be sold.

I'd have thought you'd have to pay a months notice... That is standard nowadays on decent yards. Did you pay a deposit?
 
If you have a written contract stating you must give a months notice then that is probably what you will have to pay. I have only once come across someone deducting the cost of feed and bedding from this when they left in a hurry after an argument with YO. It is usual and courteous to give a months notice or pay a months livery in my experience, however, if you believed this was not the case then I guess a reasonable person might compromise. She does not sound reasonable...

I would write to her explaining what has happened and offer to pay the retainer you agreed immediately. If she insists on your paying for the months livery then I would offer a small monthly payment (affordable for you) over the next few months to clear the bill. No court would find against you if you make a reasonable offer to start paying it off. It would take a few months to go through the small claims court anyway.
 
Seriously I just wouldnt pay it. Nobody can speak to you that way, and if a member of staff told you one thing, im not sure she could take it back. But I'd ring and speak to someone legal anyway xxx
 
you should probably pay for the stable but there is no way i would be paying for services that wernt done (as your horse wasnt there) and feed and hay that my horse didnt eat and bedding that i didnt use.

well done for keeping your cool and resorting to her level
 
TBH, she has been so rude I don't see why you should try any longer to reach a compromise. You were given the wrong information, which is unprofessional. Tell her to go ahead and sue.

However - did they request your horse as a ride, was he going to them for their personal use? If this is the case and if you now expect them to ride and sell you horse from the premises to get a good price for him, they are going to charge. To be fair, you have changed the cirumstances underwhich the horse was sent to them. Still think she was very rude though and I would sit and wait her out. Its been a big misunderstanding and some money is better than no money.
 
I would expect to pay the notice. She could whistle for thes rest though. It's not your fault you were given the wrong info by her staff!
 
I sent the horse to the pro to be ridden after informing my livery yard that was what I was doing and making sure it was ok, which they confirmed it would be and I would only have to pay my box (at the livery yard) which would be in the region of £25-£30 a week rather than £105 which is what she is trying to get me to pay. So I thought my notice would be about £110 for the month (being 4.3 weeks at £25) rather than £450 which she is trying to charge me ON TOP of the £105 I have already paid for the week he is not there - that is £556.50 whilst the horse is not even there. Initially I had every intention of getting another horse and keeping it there on livery (hence I didn't give proper notice of leaving and agreed to pay the box retainer) but she has made it impossible for me to do that anyhow plus my financial circumstances have changed. I don't want to not pay her but I don't want to be robbed of nearly £600 and receive absolutely nothing for it either!!!
 
It's very annoying that you were given the wrong information but if your yard requires a month's notice then technically you are liable for that though I would have counted that month as starting from when you informed them that he was going.
It may form part of your contract or the general rules for the yard if you were given these.

When I sent mine off to rehab - I paid till the end of the month which did mean I paid for a couple of weeks when I wasn't there.
After that I didn't pay the services part of the livery and negotiated a lower box rent to retain the stable. Our basic box rent includes straw and haylage so this made sense.
However alot of yards do charge the full amount to hold a stable.
 
If I were you I'd check your contract if you have one. If it says a months notice I would write a letter formally giving notice and enclosing payment for a month at the retainer rate. Explain that you are paying that rate because you acted in reliance upon the information provided by her employee, and that you are not willing to pay any more. Explain that while your horse has not been there they have not incurred feed or bedding costs or spent time dealing with your horse, they are also now free to fill the box asap.

Keep a copy of the letter and evidence of the payment. Then refuse to deal any further with her. If you have paid a decent chunk in all liklihood it won't be financially worth while starting small claims proceedings.
 
Luckylocalian said:
I sent the horse to the pro to be ridden after informing my livery yard that was what I was doing and making sure it was ok, which they confirmed it would be and I would only have to pay my box (at the livery yard) which would be in the region of £25-£30 a week rather than £105 which is what she is trying to get me to pay. So I thought my notice would be about £110 for the month (being 4.3 weeks at £25) rather than £450 which she is trying to charge me ON TOP of the £105 I have already paid for the week he is not there - that is £556.50 whilst the horse is not even there. Initially I had every intention of getting another horse and keeping it there on livery (hence I didn't give proper notice of leaving and agreed to pay the box retainer) but she has made it impossible for me to do that anyhow plus my financial circumstances have changed. I don't want to not pay her but I don't want to be robbed of nearly £600 and receive absolutely nothing for it either!!!
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Now I get it! TBH, you should have talked to the YO and not a member of staff and if your contract says a month's notice, then you have to give notice. I would do what Katt said.
 
Luckylocalian said:
I sent the horse to the pro to be ridden after informing my livery yard that was what I was doing and making sure it was ok, which they confirmed it would be and I would only have to pay my box (at the livery yard) which would be in the region of £25-£30 a week rather than £105 which is what she is trying to get me to pay.
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I would write a letter outlining this point, and that you are giving notice. I personally would just pay the lower amount during the notice period.
 
The contract is actually between "the yard" and me. The owner is not mentioned anywhere in the contract (and has indeed not even signed the contract). So technically legally speaking any representative of that company (or holding themselves out to represent that company) is capable of acting on behalf of the company and provided that I acted in good faith in reliance on that then no court of law is going to deny that I acted on what I was told and to make me pay the full amount would be inequitable. The yard owner cannot just claim that because I didn't speak directly to her then it is my own fault. No business would operate if that were the case. It is comical to even suggest that given that both the yard owner and the head girl and the deputy head girl were off yesterday so technically there was no one in charge of the yard if that was the case.... I had no choice but to speak to "the monkey" (as YO so nicely put it!!)
 
Oh and I am more than happy to give a month's notice and totally agree with that, but it should be at the reduced rate that I was told not the full livery rate when the horse isn't even there!!
 
If she wont be reasonable and let you just pay one months notice- without added food/hay/bedding/services (if thats what your contract states) then tell her to sue you for it........ the legal fees would end up being more than £500.
 
I would do what Katt said. Pay the months notice at the lower rate. They probably wont take it any further as it wouldnt be worth it financially for them.
 
I know, and I thought she was a really nice lady before which shows what a bad judge of character I am!! I have honestly never had anyone speak to me so rudely in my life, and I am the customer!!!! I have never said I won't pay I just want some compromise which doesn't involve just ripping me off!
 
But if the notice amount is in the conract I would be paying the full rate for that. Just not for the period when your horse was on another yard and you hadn't yet decided to leave.

ITSWIM. Although I may very well be confused :p
 
Luckylocalian said:
Oh and I am more than happy to give a month's notice and totally agree with that, but it should be at the reduced rate that I was told not the full livery rate when the horse isn't even there!!
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That's what I would do.
From a personal view, when I had liveries that temporarily moved for training, I didn't charge them at all. If they weren't there, no fee, I couldn't bear to not be fair and lining my pocket for doing nothing.
 
indiat said:
Now I get it! TBH, you should have talked to the YO and not a member of staff and if your contract says a month's notice, then you have to give notice. I would do what Katt said.
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I think who she talks to depends a lot upon the way the yard runs, if this is a decent sized business with a number of employees maybe a company rather than a sole trader I would expect that speaking to someone like the YM or head girl would be acceptable in the absence of the YO. She is entitled to rely upon what the YO's staff tell her, if they are acting outside their responsibilities that is an issue for the YO and her staff.
 
lexiedhb said:
........ the legal fees would end up being more than £500.
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If your contract is clear on this I wouldn't rely legal fees being too high - we looked at the small claims court for service charge money owed and it was really cheap and easy to do. I have filled in more complicated forms shopping online. Fees were quite low and added onto the money owed.

You are relying on them not wanting the hassle of chasing you for the money.
 
Thanks everyone. Well the contract says that notice is to be given and I totally agree and am more than happy to do so because, however rude the YO has been to me, I wouldn't want to leave her out of pocket. However, the contract does not say that rate at which notice must be paid and as I have been informed approx £25 -£30 that is what I intend to pay? I wanted to reach an agreement that we were both happy with but she has made it impossible. I HATE HATE HATE arguing with people but being nice has just got me shouted at. I must have cried on and off for about 5 hours yesterday after she finished with me. That is just NOT what I pay decent money for and NOT at all fair :(
 
True fees for a money claim online are not high, but there is the hassle and a lot of people are put off because they think the fees are bound to be high.

OP can wait and see whether a claim materialises. If it does she could pay up to avoid further hassle, or take her chances at court. If she spoke to a relatively senior person at the yard and acted in good faith on what she agreed the rates would be then she may stand a chance of winning and not having to pay more than the retainer rate. But it would depend upon what her contract says.
 
I think Katt's advice is good. Write a letter and clearly point out your reasoning, ie that your contract is with the Yard and you took advice from the staff in charge. Pay them something reasonable and wait to see what happens. If it does come down to having to pay more if they do take legal action, which is unlikely, then I think you are allowed to pay it off in quite small installments.
 
if you wernt planning to leave the yard i think £25-£35 retainer is reasonable - speaking frm experience!


we had a retainer of £35 a week on a full livery yard... and had our horse being re-schooled....(that was £110 a week there)...we had every intention of filling the box with another horse and going back to paying full livery.....

we didnt actually go back so handed our notice in. they were reasonable and let it go etc.

tbh your yard owner is way out of line - fine another yard... i wouldnt put up with being spoken to lke that.
 
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