Excessive urinating - add on from hfffffffff he was scoped post

[Chinchilla]

This is OP's first horse, if I remember rightly, so it's worth remembering that most people don't expect - and consequently don't prepare for - anything like this; certainly not with their first. I feel quite sorry for OP to be in this situation, but agree that at this stage a hospital referral for in depth investigations would probably be the best root as the horse's quality of life, in my opinion, needs to take precedence over anything else.

 

[Horsekaren]

I know you can't always fix them and I'm sorry it didn't work out for your Horse but all I can do is try. It's only been 2-3 months of symptoms , a scope and a trail of steroids which has helped. I don't have endless amount of money.
Hopfully the scan will show something we can work on. This evening he seemed happy, let me do his feet, was munching and was covered in chippings so he was either lying or rolling.
So being two months in and not really explored I'm hoping this is all going to turn out ok.
Monday can't come soon enough.

 

[Ellietotz]

Been following your threads for some time now. I really hope you manage to solve this mystery. Would be interesting to know what it was after all this time x

 

[Talism4n]

Haven't read all of your other posts so my apologies if this has been covered. Have you had a blood test to check liver/kidney function and signs of inflammation? My boy had very similar symptoms to this and it turned out to be liver failure. I feel for you, it's heartbreaking stuff.

 

[stormox]

I think, Horsekaren, it might help if you wrote ALL the symptoms down in a list, stating when started etc. You should do this for the vet anyway and it might help people on here who havent read all the previous threads and posts you have written.

 

[Pinkvboots]

One of the ponies at polo kept having what seemed to be colic episodes, it turned out to be a severe urinary infection.

this is also what I was thinking

 

[Gloi]

I think, Horsekaren, it might help if you wrote ALL the symptoms down in a list, stating when started etc. You should do this for the vet anyway and it might help people on here who havent read all the previous threads and posts you have written.

Very good idea. Will also help if the vet needs to refer to somewhere else.

 

[LaurenBay]

I completely agree GS that the OP should be aware of the mounting costs of veterinary treatment, but it seems to me having followed the many threads about this horse that her own vet is flailing about a bit and not accurately diagnosing the problem/s this horse has, and in the meantime the horse is clearly becoming more uncomfortable.

So if he were mine, I would be sending him to the equine hospital for rigorous testing and diagnostics, to try to establish what exactly is causing the horse to present in this way, and then making an informed decision as to how to move forward - or not.

I would be seriously unhappy to have had this much time passed and still not know what the cause was. And I would not have been happy with a vet who, when told how the horse was presenting the other night (on top of all the existing issues), didn't want to come out and see for herself.

Absolutely this! I would not be using more of my insurance claim on this vet. The Horse has been displaying symptoms for a very long time!

 

[Horsekaren]

Symptoms occurring for the last 3 months
1. Grumpy
2. Pulls aggressive faces at his stable door
3. Girthy – this started within two weeks of having him (saddle issue)
4. Hates being tacked up
5. Doesn’t want to be touched (anywhere but especially flacks backwards) – this has got worse in the last month
6. Up and down appetite, some nights he leaves most of his hay
7. Kicking at rugs – last month
8. Kicking when picking back feet – last 2 weeks
9. Hot and sweaty un-rugged in stable if above 6 degrees – might just be coat
10. Urinates a lot (7 times in 1 hour when possibly having a mild colic attach)
a. During this episode he was walking oddly on his back right leg
b. He is a wet horse, doesn’t seem to struggle to wee and they don’t seem to be short (always done this, the above 7 times is a one off)
11. Hangs his willy out a lot – always has
12. Inconsistent drinking – sometimes empty in morning sometimes hardly touched- changed from dry to wet hay so this may be a factor
13. Sometimes swishes tail when being lead and stamps back leg to kick belly
14. Some mornings he is desperate to roll / this coincides with number 13
15. Inconsistent poos, some nights 8 some nights 2
16. Sometimes agitated
17. Loses balance when dozing- on and off
18. Switches off and almost goes unconscious when being girthed occasionally, or in times of stress, have seen this about 4 times
19. Seems to itch a specific area at the back of his flanks, hip joint a lot during the night
20. Some days he just stands at his stable with his ears back like he is in pain
21. Biting -last month
22. Yawning- last 2 months
23. He seems to shift his weight a lot, not sure if more than a normal horse.
24. He stamps his back legs on the floor but I presume this is because of his feathers itching.
25. He rubs his bum on the walls, itching his tail. Doesn’t have worms

It adds up to a lot but I have to mention this is our first winter, this started not long after the change in routine.
He has had bloods that show inflammation somewhere. To coincide with the above he also had a cough was treated with steroids and anti B’s which helped.

Scoped - no ulcers, slight pinkness at opening of small intestine
No worms
slightly positive Succeed test for blood in hind gut

Since the steroids and balancers the bloods results have shown an improvement, he isn’t quite as miserable, i.e. you can stand with him at his stable door and he won’t tell you to go all the time. Since the steroids began he seems to feel much better under the saddle (not that he has ever been bad) he just felt relaxed and nicely forward (I have stopped riding now until I have the scan) He appears to stop lying down so we wondered if the wobbliness was due to sleep deprivation but seems to lay down most nights as he is covered in chippings.

The above list seems vast but keep in mind, these arn't every day and constant. The only constant symptom that doesn't change is - don't touch my flanks and saddle. The rest are all things I have noticed but I am watching and analysing everything.

I am going to try and upload a video of this tummy after the other nights episode.

 

[Horsekaren]

[video=youtube;-UXSkKY84oQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UXSkKY84oQ[/video]

This video was taken after he has been walked for 20 minutes during his episode. thoughts?

 

[Rowreach]

I know exactly what springs to mind reading your list and seeing that video but I'm not a vet and won't comment other than to say again, hospital asap.

I'm also not going to say what I think of your vet.

 

[ponyparty]

I've nothing useful to contribute other than to say I really hope you get to the bottom of this soon and that the outcome is positive. Rooting for you and your horse - what a nightmare to have all this trouble with your first horse. I really feel for you.

 

[Horsekaren]

Thanks, i don't want to be frightened with scare mongering or worst case scenarios. I know the list is long. The weeing is concerning but this was the day after the scope and he has never had an episode like this before. .

This morning and yesterday evening he was perfectly fine as he has done since before the scoping... again only constant is don't touch my belly.

His bloods are being taken monthly so if anything was super high or super low we would know. His temp is normal so unlikely to be an infection.

I suppose i'm just trying to fine one person that has had the exact same symptoms but seems impossible.

I cannot stress enough though, he is my first so everything is a huge deal, ive been told he isn't the type and he is taking the mick but since the other night opinions have changed. Its hard as 95% of the time he is behaving perfectly normal, happy out, happy in ect

 

[LaurenBay]

Your Horse is not taking the mick. He is screaming at you for help. Your vet needs to get his a**e in gear and either admit he doesn't know what the issue is and refer you to an equine hospital or come and see you more often and not make you wait so long for appointments. Bloods taken once a month is absurd!. It is not fair on your Horse who has been suffering for 3 months to keep waiting around for this vet.

Get your Horse to equine hospital immediately and find out what the issue is so your Horse can be helped!

 

[Leo Walker]

You arent going to find the answers online. Every picture I see of this horse screams pain and your posts back this up. Your vet seems awful sadly. You are now at the point were he needs to go to a specialist hospital for a work up. They can scan there if they want to. Hes been left too long with all this going on.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Your Horse is not taking the mick. He is screaming at you for help. Your vet needs to get his a**e in gear and either admit he doesn't know what the issue is and refer you to an equine hospital or come and see you more often and not make you wait so long for appointments. Bloods taken once a month is absurd!. It is not fair on your Horse who has been suffering for 3 months to keep waiting around for this vet.

Get your Horse to equine hospital immediately and find out what the issue is so your Horse can be helped!

Echo this. I know it's hard to know what "normal" is with a new horse, especially when it's your first, but none of this is normal. 3 months is way too long to still be taking stabs in the dark whilst your boy still suffers, particularly when it'll be using up precious insurance money and claim time. At this point I'd be either asking for a referral to an equine hospital or getting a second opinion rather than waiting around for weeks on end for your current vet to pull their finger out.

 

[Rowreach]

I cannot stress enough though, he is my first so everything is a huge deal, ive been told he isn't the type and he is taking the mick but since the other night opinions have changed. Its hard as 95% of the time he is behaving perfectly normal, happy out, happy in ect

I'm sorry and I feel for you, I really do, but you have been posting on here for months and people with a lot of experience have been telling you that your horse needs proper diagnostics, which you clearly aren't getting from your vet, and still you keep coming back and getting the same comments.

It doesn't matter if he looks a bit better today, he is NOT better.

As GS has said in a previous post, sometimes you never get to the bottom of what is wrong, but your vet certainly never will and your horse needs to be seen by a specialist. And then you can take it from there.

 

[Goldenstar]

[video=youtube;-UXSkKY84oQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UXSkKY84oQ[/video]

This video was taken after he has been walked for 20 minutes during his episode. thoughts?

Thoughts very sick horse get it refferred and take desision asap .
You need to seriously consider the cost implications of the various routes forward and talk frankly with the vets before they charge you 10k to tell you to shoot the horse .
This is really tough stuff but you are where you are and you have to get through somehow .

 

[Goldenstar]

[video=youtube;-UXSkKY84oQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UXSkKY84oQ[/video]

This video was taken after he has been walked for 20 minutes during his episode. thoughts?

Thoughts very sick horse get it refferred and take desision asap .
You need to seriously consider the cost implications of the various routes forward and talk frankly with the vets before they charge you 10k to tell you to shoot the horse .
This is really tough stuff but you are where you are and you have to get through somehow .
Ps your is grey the vet ought to have been considering melanomas long ago.

 

[ester]

He's not grey, he is red sabino (type)

 

[Sandstone1]

Get your vet to refer you to equine hospital now. Or change your vet because there is something serious going on and if you delay you may regret it

 

[Rowreach]

He's not grey, he is red sabino (type)

Rare in non-greys but tend to be more aggressive if they are present.

 

[Horsekaren]

Rare in non-greys but tend to be more aggressive if they are present.

Hi, sorry i know you're not a vet and are speculating but what are you speculating about?

 

[Leo Walker]

Hi, sorry i know you're not a vet and are speculating but what are you speculating about?

The specifics dont matter. I think what almost everyone is speculating about is something catastrophic that is causing your horse a lot of pain and almost certainly isnt going to end well.

 

[SEL]

Have you shown that video to your vet?

It was videoing behaviour and insisting that a vet saw it (dropbox upload) that actually got me taken seriously with my "she's just having you on" mare. Whenever the vet came out adrenaline would take over and her symptoms were masked. Once I was able to video what was going on the vet took me seriously.

 

[Horsekaren]

if everyone is thinking the same thing then can someone please say so i can ask to my vet about it. For all we know its already been ruled out. You cant just that you all think its something catastrophic and not say what you are thinking that's not fare!

 

[cobgoblin]

Renal colic? Possibly passed the stone into bladder with ittermittent urinary obstruction?

 

[SEL]

I'm not thinking anything - but I would like your vet to see that video because that isn't 'normal' behaviour.

Lots of people will have different thoughts based on horse they have come across in the past, but the vast majority of us aren't vets and will just be guessing. Its unfair on you to share those guesses because 1) they might scare you witless and 2) if your vet has ruled it out then it might stop you going back to the vet.

BUT - there is something not right and your vet needs to get their backside in gear and they need to see that video.

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to get the horse to diagnostic centre of excellence and then take it from there .
This is not something that can wait you need to crack on and get hopefully an answer you need the support of specialist vets while you go through this process .
This is way beyond Internet advice .
Speak to your vet and make arrangements to move things forward with specialist input .
Every thing you find out your horse does not have makes this more likely to be potentially catastrophic.
You need to control his pain while you take a desision my horse did well on fynadyne

 

[Rowreach]

if everyone is thinking the same thing then can someone please say so i can ask to my vet about it. For all we know its already been ruled out. You cant just that you all think its something catastrophic and not say what you are thinking that's not fare!

I have replied to your PM and have told you that I will not speculate because it would only further confuse you with all the responses you have been getting, and in any event I may be wrong.

And it doesn't matter if what some of us are thinking has already been ruled out, you still don't know what is actually wrong with the horse and you certainly won't find out by posting on here.

Sorry, I do feel for you and I hate sounding harsh, but your horse needs to be seen at an equine hospital by a proper equine vet with proper diagnostic tools to hand.

He is a seriously unwell horse.