Excessive urination (also in veterinary)

[Three]

My oldie (35 in June) has, over the past few months, been getting wetter and wetter. His bed squelches some mornings.

He is not noticably drinking much more - although I can't monitor his daytime intake as he is out with a largish group.

He does have much wetter feeds these days - he has no pairs of molars left - but it doesn't 'feel' like enough to produce so much extra wee.

He has readigrass & alfa A oil ad lib at night as he can no longer chew long fibres.

I have started using coprameal (the coconut derivative stuff) as a way to help keep his weight on over the winter. Could this do it?

Other than the excess wee-ing he seems bright and perky, still keen to go out, tucks into his feed etc and I can't see any other 'symptoms' of anything.

Any ideas?

I've also posted this in Vet - but I know lots more people pop in here.

 

[duggan]

Could it be that his bladder is getting weaker so he goes more often? It might have been that he was storing it up before and going once out in the field. I was told that horses wee different amounts and that I wasn't to worry unless they were drinking a significantly bigger amount.
I have two that wee for England, and don't drink any more than the others. Hope your lad's ok, its a cracking age to get him to, well done.

 

[Booboos]

Just to check see if you can get a urine sample to the vets and it might be worth doing bloods to check liver and kidneys are functioning well. Probably nothing, but it's better to be sure!

 

[cm2581]

So first of all the obvious - sure your stable isn't leaking?!! Or does he empty his water into the bed?!

If both of these are not the case(!) then to urinate excessively he must drink excessively. The main clinical cause for this is cushing's disease, which at his age is quite likely, although if he drinks no more than normal over night, it may be he is only drinking a lot in the field. This could be habit thru boredom or because he can't satisfy his hunger with the grass/hay in field due to his teeth so he drinks instead. Or maybe he just likes the taste?! Also eating chaff mite increase his water intake? Be careful feeding that if he has no pairs of molars left as he is very unlikely to be able to chew even chaff and this could lead to choke which older horses don't recover so well from. Soaked high fibre nuts and unmolassed sugarbeet are also a good hay replacer for oldies.

But also very well done for getting him to this age! Hope mine lives that long!

 

[Booboos]

For what it's worth excessive urination is NOT always associated with excessive drinking. Excessive drinking (polydipsia) which leads to excessive urination (polyuria) is indicative of different health problems than excessive urination which can occur on its own - just went through all this with a dog!

It will be helpful to the vet if you know whether it is excessive urination on its own or combined with excessive drinking.

 

[jendie]

I'd be suspicious of a kidney problem or something like diabetes. Maybe the vet could do some baseline blood tests?

 

[Three]

Thanks all.

He's definately not drinking excessively in the stable - but may drink more in the field; although I haven't observed him doing so (but then I don't stand all day watching him - tempting though it is to lean on a gate doing nothing

).

I don't think he has Cushings - he shows no other symptoms - although his coat has got longer and coarser over the years he moults fine and it doesn't have that wavy look that Cushings coats often get.

Duggan, I'm inclined to think it just may be old age/weaker bladder (at least fingers crossed it is!)

I think I'll get some bloods done just in case....

 

[TGM]

Apparently alfalfa can cause an increase in urination - have you noticed this difference since you have been giving him the Alfa A Oil overnight?

 

[brighteyes]

I have enjoyed reading this post - a refreshing mix of sensible advice,helpful suggestions, and the overall impression the wonderful oldie is in excellent hands

I hope it's nothing serious and he's back to his usual self soon. Many congratulations on getting him to 35. Magnificent age

Do let us know your findings and there is plenty there to be getting on with in the meantime. I'm not sure about the grazing he's on, but if new stuff is coming through and he's waiting til he comes in to wee... The water outside may be preferable to him and he's taking more out there instead. I've got my fingers crossed for simple explanation.

 

[Three]

TGM - possibly! I had thought it more recent but I'll have a mental rekky and see if it ties in!

He had only been having Readigrass and I started him on Alfa-A as a change and he really enjoys it.

Thank you - that would be a relief if it is that.

 

[Three]

Thanks Brighteyes - HHO is a fabulous place generally speaking.

Our grass isn't coming through yet - I heave a giant sigh of relief as soon as it does because it means my winter battle to keep his weight good starts to ease off.

(then of course I start the summer battle to keep the cob's weight down...

)

I'm planning a birthday party for him if we get to June!

 

[Enfys]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently alfalfa can cause an increase in urination - have you noticed this difference since you have been giving him the Alfa A Oil overnight?

[/ QUOTE ]

As you say TGM.

OP, There is a link to an article about alfalfa and increased urination in this thread, scroll down to the final post:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5309461/an/0/page/0#5309461

It may be worth considering as part of the cause.

 

[Three]

Thanks Enfys - have been trawling round the web and found good and bad on Alfalfa.

http://www.womenandhorses.com/protein20050517.html

Definately looks like a possible though - and well worth swapping him off and onto something else to see if it helps.

Once again a big thank you to everyone offering thoughts, help and advice; very very much appreciated.

 

[foraday]

defo check out the alfalfa

a recent horse santuary had reason to 'test' the alfalfa as they had a spate of laminitus for no reason-turned out to be the hifi lite stuff!

Apparently last year when it rained and rained etc it was excellent growing for the alfalfa-result very high proteins in the alfalfa across the range

also the coconut would help as its a natural diretic and laxative-your horse doesn't have to be drinking more to wee more as body is made up of 75% water anyway! So the coconut could be 'helping' to remove fluid that the oldies find hard to get rid of naturally

Would suggest a blood test though just to make doubly sure as cushings does not have to be the 'curly coat'

My friends horse had full blown cushings but she clipped her 'woolly coarse' hair off so she wouldn't sweat and her eyes did need cleaning every day-she was on pergolide as well