Exercises to improve a strong rude horse I cant stop in walk!

[Leo Walker]

and yes I know the answer is lessons, and they are booked for a couple of weeks time, just looking for things to do in the interim But my lovely little cob is a thug! Hes generally fine to handle as we did a lot of ground work in a Dually, but his default setting is pigpony. I'm at the top end of weight I'd put on him, but its like he doesnt even know I'm there. Hes had his back, teeth and saddle checked, all more than once, and I am 100% happy he is fit and well.

I'm a very quiet rider and absolutely refuse to rag him about. 99% of the time he will stop/slow of weight and seat aids. But what do I do when he wont?? He had a huge strop yesterday as I expected him to be ridden when I brought him in, instead of being installed in his stable to scoff hay. He had a huge paddy and tacking him up was like wrestling an angry rhino! We worked through that, got him tacked up and I went to get on. Instead of parking by the mounting block as per usual he was VERY rude. Worked through that and he stood quietly and I got on. Then he literally just towed me back to his stable, barging through people who were stood on the yard. I had to get someone to get hold of his bridle and tow him round to face the right way.

Very embarrassing for me! He then agreed to hack out and everything was fine, he was back to his usual jolly little self. We did lots of halting off seat aids, walking on, and then halting again and all was fine. Very responsive off me just tightening my seat. Until he was back on the yard and then he towed me again!

He doesn't open his mouth, he just sets himself against me and then hes off. He is the ONLY horse I have ever sat on who has ran away with me at a walk! I know its down to his mind set and next time before I ride I will give him a tubtrug full of chopped straw so his tummy is full so there is no starving to death excuses, but equally I know he is phenomenally strong and ignorant when it suits him, so its something we need to work on

Hes 5yr old and hes had a very easy time up until now, so its not been an issue, but I want to start doing a bit more with him. Barging back to his stable isnt the end of the world, but it will be if I take him hunting or out on a sponsored ride etc and he just disregards me. I can shrug it off when he does a slow motion tow to his stable, I probably couldn't if I was tanked back to it and it feels like it could easily escalate to that! 99% of the time hes brilliant, 1% hes out of control

EDITED to add hes in a Myler comfort snaffle

 

[Ebenezer_Scrooge]

A stronger seat, a good contact & turn him in a circle if he tries to go where he wants so he has something else to focus on. If he's being rude & ignoring your aids you have to be firmer in your aids. Yes it might not be pretty but his behaviour isn't acceptable either.
I'm sure more experienced riders will give better ideas but just my initial thoughts.

 

[Barnacle]

Can you get someone else to try him? It sounds like you are struggling to make the point clearly enough and I would be curious to see if someone else could. I know you said you've never had this happen before but that's not really an indication of much.

I also wonder, how did you deal with him not standing to be mounted? And other than have him turned around, what did you do when he made the beeline for the stables?

You say you "refuse to rag him about" - what do you mean exactly? And, not to be mean but how does that differ from getting someone else to "tow him" by the bridle? I'm not suggesting you should pull him around violently but perhaps you need to use more leg for the turn and be a bit more forceful rather than thinking you have to remain quiet for the principle and getting someone else to do your dirty work so to speak.

I would do a few things. First of all, I'd be tougher in the first place. He sounds like he's just ignoring you... I would really push him off-balance with legs and seat and only a little bridle to get him to turn and reconsider what he's doing. Secondly, if you have an enclosed space and he naps towards the stables while in it, try riding there and just pushing him forward (but in no particular direction) whenever he naps and then relaxing when he moves away. As well as this training, you can do groundwork (free schooling and/or lunging) to stop him thinking he can go where he likes. From what you're describing, he needs to be made to do more work when he starts barging his way to the stable, a bit more impulsion and then turn. You do need to be careful if there are people around though. But basically he sounds unfocused and not on your leg.

 

[Leo Walker]

He had a months pro schooling. Before he went there he was a typical ploddy cob, very, very lazy and just couldnt care less about going forwards. Some of that at least was not really understanding about going off the leg. He came back very forward and responsive and he still is.

My usual way of dealing with him not standing to be mounted (only happened once before after we taught him to stand) Was calm, consistent handling, ie, he didnt stand so he was walked round and presented again. Honestly, this is the first time he hasnt stood and shuffled himself over to the right place and stood on a loose rein. This time another livery helped me, and just calmly kept presenting him until he stood calmly. I was very happy with her help She was calm and consistent and rewarded him for doing the right thing.

I say I refuse to rag him around as he completely ignored me, when we got near the overhang of the stables I did try and yank him round as all else had failed! He didnt even notice it! I got him turned round by someone else getting hold of his noseband and turning him around and walking him away. I guess thats a sign off how well his ground work has stuck as he didnt object

Its very hard to explain! Hes a lovely polite boy, until he isnt, and then he is literally oblivious to anything! I'm not exaggerating when I say I could wallop him with a piece of 2x4 with nails in and he would just ignore me!

 

[Yardbird]

As you ride him more he wil get the hang of what you want him to do.My cob would not turn easily when I got him at 4 and also did not always stop in walk too , but he just got the idea of what I was asking him by keeping on doing it.

 

[Illusion100]

Go back to groundwork basics, long lines in particular.

 

[merlin12]

He is only five and still has a lot to learn. With my cob I found that you have to be very firm and clear. Once he knows who is boss he is perfect, but he still likes to test the boundaries I need to use strong legs, school on hacks ,bending and flexing ,change of direction etc. With a weaker rider mine will go where he wants. Cobs are not as easy as lots of people think. Sounds like you are doing well. Ground work and long reining can help. Do you think he is just testing you.

 

[twiggy2]

start bringing him to a stable with no hay for half an hour would be my first change to tackle the towing you round the yard. Followed by a haynet before you ride.
many youngsters walk through the aids when confused/worried that is part of youngsters and with a consistent rider it does change. If possible turn him and ask again.

 

[LHIS]

I agree with others - groundwork and long reining. Pop his dually back on for the ground work, or even bridle with dually over the top.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

More work: he is nearly at his full physical strength and has not learned to be compliant. As others have said you need to "macho up" with this one, the pro schooling has sharpened him up and then you took him back and in his mind you let him off with his nonsense.

If you can;t quite cope it is important you get someone to sit on him and re install his manners. A horse like this is going to need work, lots and lots of hacking,, miles and miles of walking. Plenty of school work, make him sweat a bit, but keep it all interesting, if he starts to get bored he may start to nap, so keep moving forward. It may be tiring for you, so you may need to do a bit of running yourself, and some weights in the gym.

Look at diet, NO molasses, try a month on Feedmark Steady up. If he is food oriented, stop feeding as soonas he comes in. Have some hay in his stable but no feed. A few minerals and salt and a bit of chaff after work.

You may need to carry a stout stick and slap him on the neck if he starts messing about or looking around, ditto on the ground, you give him a flick with your fingers on the neck, always stand where you are in control of his body, imagine he is a two tonne monster and you are a very tiny person, you must keep your personal space sacrosanct, never let him in to your personal space.

Very few people seem to use verbal commands these days, fair enough, but I find that a few growls get attention, and a few songs when out hacking will also help with rhythm.

I would possibly have him in a cheeckpiece bit, something chunky that you can get hold of and insist on getting his attention.A grackle may be required. To me a myler is for the schooled and obedient type to improve cadence and balance, he sounds like a thug, you are not tweaking his schooling.

You need to have basic control and he must learn to respect you. Be fair, be consistent, be firm.

 

[Leo Walker]

Hes on a diet of hay, chopped straw and bluechip calmer.Nothing else. He cant do more work as hes been off for a couple of months so we are literally right at the start of the walk part of fitness work and I'm really unwell at the minute, but yes more work will settle him a bit. A smack with a stick wouldnt even get a raised eyebrow from him. Honestly, he really couldnt care less about getting a walloping.

Hes definitely going through the Kevins at the minute and is obsessed with food. His world literally revolves around it! I've previously brought him in and let him have a bucket of chopped straw and hes been totally fine. This time I didnt and he was enraged which is where all of this came from. But it also highlighted that hes happy to transfer his thug behaviour under saddle. Hes fine on the ground now usually as he never got away with it, so he pretty much stopped trying. It is just his default setting.

 

[Hoof_Prints]

Transitions, walk-halt, halt-walk, use the weight and seat but if you need to take a pull then take one, don't yank but use what it takes to get him to stop, just incorporate your seat aids along side and use voice if that helps.
I have ridden many horses with no brakes ! and it just takes endless transitions to get them to listen, you won't ruin your horses mouth. You need to teach a bit of respect and show him you are the leader. I have a pony at the moment that simply didn't understand what being asked to stop was, I don't know how he was ridden! he would never actually stop, just shorten up and pull me. I had to use strong rein aids and make him stop until he got the idea. He now can do all transitions from halt to canter with a touch on the mouth or no reins at all so honestly, don't worry about taking a pull! If he sets himself then give him a sharp turn in a circle and make him listen, take no nonsense , if he still doesn't listen I'd go down the route of a slightly stronger or different bit then work down to a snaffle once he stopped being rude. Not ideal in a young horse but It's something you want to nip in the bud before he tries new tricks.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would just use the rien and stop him the moment he stops I would release the rien and pat him once on the neck .
If he moved off before I asked I would repeat and repeat and repeat until he learnt it was not tolerated .
I would use short sharp rien aids not a strong haul he could brace against .
I would also withdraw all cuddles and treats and handle him in a detached way until he learnt not to treat me with no respect.
I would also work him more ,being tired usually makes all such issues easy to sort.
At this age it should be quickly sorted let it run on and you risk creating a little monster .

 

[AdorableAlice]

I would just use the rien and stop him the moment he stops I would release the rien and pat him once on the neck .
If he moved off before I asked I would repeat and repeat and repeat until he learnt it was not tolerated .
I would use short sharp rien aids not a strong haul he could brace against .
I would also withdraw all cuddles and treats and handle him in a detached way until he learnt not to treat me with no respect.
I would also work him more ,being tired usually makes all such issues easy to sort.
At this age it should be quickly sorted let it run on and you risk creating a little monster .

Good advice. These young cobs learn bad more quickly than good at time. If he was professionally broken it would be worthwhile asking for help from whoever broke him. He should not be rude if broken properly.

 

[misskk88]

Haven't read all the replies, but hand to pocket circles are a god send. If he wants to move and not listen, then he can continue to move, but he will have to work bloody hard for it! If when you ask him to stop and he stands still, move on with whatever you were doing. If he refuses to stand still again, continue with circles. That way it doesn't become a tug of war and he cannot set against you.

Also, I understand not being heavy handed, but I think sometimes it is far better to give one hard 'LISTEN TO ME' signal if they are just bulldozing through the contact, than it is to just keep trying to politely ask and keep it all gentle and sweet (same goes for leg aids too!). Having had a mare who tried every trick in the book to not work into a contact, once she had a firm reprimand, I could continue riding quietly. I found the more I tried to stay calm and gentle, by the end of our session, I would suddenly realise I was bracing and either holding her up, or holding on for dear life as I got tighter and tighter! The same went for the youngsters I use to help with too, some from lack of understanding, some through pure Kevin attitude!

Also- another vote for teaching voice commands. I find a horse that listens to that is 99% easier to handle both ridden and ground wise. I use to do a lot of loose schooling with mine and she use to just go off my words.

 

[pennyturner]

Goldenstar has it. I would add that, although it seems counter-intuitive, make sure you put your leg on as you ask for the transition down. I had a strong-willed little pony, who was my first. He took a hold in all paces - and yes, it's embarassing and difficult to explain to people that your pony has tanked off in walk! - and taught me that to engage a halt, you must first push your pony up into the bit.

Otherwise it's just him towing you down the road.

Incidentally, the same goes for when he's tanked off in canter, bucking like a speared pig. Leg on first!

 

[Leo Walker]

Its hard to explain, hes not rude, until that 1% of the time that he is, and then he really, really is! Its a new thing. He went away for schooling and came back very grown up and confident. Much, much better educated. I should have been working him from the minute he came back cementing that, but I have been so, so ill I just couldnt. Hes bored and he thinks hes hungry. I'm also still a long way from well, but I'm well enough to manage the walk part of fitting him at least.

GS I think you might have just solved my problem Part of not being very well is being confused and not having great cognitive function, and somehow I defaulted to pulling against him and trying to haul him round, instead of short sharp pulls. Duh! I cant believe I hadnt worked that out. I'll never win in a pulling match with him, it just gives him something to set against. I feel pretty stupid now! Sometimes I am an idiot! :lol:

 

[Arzada]

GS I think you might have just solved my problem Part of not being very well is being confused and not having great cognitive function, and somehow I defaulted to pulling against him and trying to haul him round, instead of short sharp pulls. Duh! I cant believe I hadnt worked that out. I'll never win in a pulling match with him, it just gives him something to set against. I feel pretty stupid now! Sometimes I am an idiot! :lol:

We all are from time to time and then we reflect and learn!

 

[ester]

I also think you need to do the short sharp oi! pull and boot in the opposite rib way before he got anywhere near his stable and before he got much momentum up . It is not acceptable for him to go anywhere without you telling him when you are riding .

 

[Broc]

My cob was exactly the same at 5, I know this prob won't suit you but I sent him away to be broken to drive, voice commands, forward going, it has made him a much better riding pony and he loves driving as well.

 

[Leo Walker]

He was originally bought to drive. He long reins like a pro and I think he'd love driving! Its something I keep thinking about doing, but the costs and logistics keep putting me off actually doing it!

 

[Clodagh]

I think you know what to try next, but I would kick him hard and sock him in the gob, if necessaty. I really like full cheek snaffles on a baby as well.

 

[Broc]

The guy who broke mine to drive wasn't too pricey,and you can pick up good harness and carts quite reasonably as well. It is great fun, I prefer it to riding now!

 

[Sukistokes2]

I have a little cob, he is usually brilliant, sounds a bit similar to yours, usually 100%. Stands to be mounted works well, tries hard and is fab on the ground. Then out of the blue you have a different horse, spooky, naughty, won't stand to be mounted, won't go forward, kicks out sidewards when asked him to engage, can open his mouth and fling head about when asked to stop, just like yours he has had all the checks, several times. I have worked out that he goes like this when he is growing and when he has reached a point that he is uncomfortable carrying weight and working hard. I get through these stages by reducing work load, by stopping riding myself and only getting his light weight rider to gently work him or even by turning him away for a couple of weeks until he gets used to what ever bit has grown. Mine is six, he is a traditional and i was warned by a breeder that they really grow between 6 and 7 and it can be traumatic for them.

 

[rosiesue]

Presuming this is purely behavioural, read Klaus Ferdinand Hempflings book "dancing with horses" .....may put a different spin on things for you.

 

[Leo Walker]

Hes definitely not growing, I wish he was :lol: But it is his way of telling me something is wrong. But in this instance the thing thats wrong is him not standing in his stable stuffing his face when he thinks its tea time! I had a similar thing with him barging through fencing/people/gates etc a few weeks ago, when he decided it was time to come in and people weren't moving quickly enough to get him. Thats stopped now thank goodness. Last nights episode was definitely food related.

I'll just give him a scoop of chopped straw when he comes in so he can stuff his face for a little while and I think he will be fine. If not I'll be getting very, very tough with him. It is only very occasionally that he decides to be a pigpony but he shouldnt be being a pigpony at all :lol:

 

[el_Snowflakes]

I think it's probably a case of 'rag him about' to start with. He obviously doesn't mind ragging you about!

 

[Lintel]

Full cheek snaffle.

This is what my boy used to do literally ripping the bit through his mouth wouldn't even work- until we discovered the full cheek snaffle and a lot of right or left rein.
Soon found out it was rubbish fun to get consistently turned in a circle.

He used to open his mouth aswell but the cheeks seemed to solve that issue too, we then downgraded to D ring and then back to his loosening snaffle.

You'll get loads of good advice on here but this is what helped me, can't help too much on the ground thankfully some consistency and a crop sorted my stroppy boys issues there

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'll just give him a scoop of chopped straw when he comes in so he can stuff his face for a little while and I think he will be fine.

Lots of good advice already on here, but it sounded to me like he threw a CobStrop because he thought he was being diddled out of a meal! Your plan sounds good. I always bring mine in for a tiny handful of feed and a nibble of hay before work, so they think they've had something.

A hungry cob (or one that reckons it's missed out on some food, somewhere) is generally not the most co-operative of beasts..

 

[Woolly Hat n Wellies]

I think it's probably a case of 'rag him about' to start with. He obviously doesn't mind ragging you about!

When I first took my bargey cob to my instructor I was horrified by the way she ragged him about. As soon as he turned his head away from her she yanked it back straight, when he went to move she socked him in the gob and kicked (not hard!) his knees until he stepped back. As soon as he did it she dropped all the pressure on him. I was on the verge of running in to 'save' him, when I saw him give the biggest sigh, and drop his nose right down. I'd never seen him so relaxed as after she'd 'ragged him about'. It seemed a bit rough to start with, and it was really hard to do myself as I was terrified of hurting him, but now he's a different horse. He used to push through you on the ground, walk over the top of you to get to his feed, or hay, or to look out of the window, he fidgeted when I tacked him up, he fidgeted at the mounting block, he was known as 'Billy No-Brakes' as he would just set his huge under-neck muscle against you and pull forward and down, ripping the reins through your hands and getting faster and faster. Now he will back up from a word, or from the pressure of a finger on the reins, I can stop any time I want, instantly, and he will stand like a rock.

I'm sure he's happier for knowing that I'll do the thinking and the only thing he has to do is follow instructions.

There are occasional moments when he gets anxious and forgets himself, and then I 'rag him about' a bit and he relaxes and calms down.

But my experience is limited to an old man with deeply ingrained bad habits, not a younger model!