Exmoor pony with a strong flight instinct

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TwinkleT

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I have posted before about my semi-feral exmoor pony. I started a new job and was struggling to find enough time to handle him so he has spent the last few weeks with a really good trainer. He has made really good progress with his handling. I can now touch him all over, pick up his feet, catch him etc. He's also had a rider on him and although a bit nervy he's coped well.
However, he still has an issue with being led. The majority of the time he is fine to lead but if he is spooked his first instinct is to run. If you can get him back quickly he's fine and will carry on as normal. If he manages to pick up speed and pull the leader towards him he then gets spooked them and there's nothing you can do to stop him. It's almost as if the leader becomes the predator out to get him and he has to get away. I have had the same reaction trying to run with him and also long reining if you get close behind him. He's not had the best start in life, he's only 4 and i'm at least his 4th owner and there are a couple of unknown years where I can't find out where he was. The yard where he is think it may be a memory of being herded?
Has anyone had a similar problem? He comes home this weekend and i'm not sure the best way to approach this? Should I spend the winter just grooming and messing around with him to get him 100% confident with people before pushing it or cracking on now doing a lot in hand to try and get him desensitised to things going on around him?

Sorry this has turned in to a bit of an essay, any advice is gratefully received! He's a lovely little pony and I really want to make sure he has a chance in life.
 
I had a pony like this, I ended up rehoming him to someone who knew what they were doing before I got injured (already landed in hospital once)

One thing I did to try and iron out the problem (while I still had him) was get a vet to spend two hours going over him for any physical reason for his tanking off, the vet bought an assistant and they tried leading him to see what would happen

Once medical issues were ruled out I had two people come to offer advice, one was a natural horsemanship lady and the other who was a 'traditional' type of horsewoman, I listened carefully to both

I was happy to rehome the pony in the end as I knew that someone more skilled wouldn't have so much of a problem

If I had made the decision to keep him I would 100% not have mucked about any more and would have sent him to someone who was knowledgeable in the process whereby a horse is taught that they cannot pull away (rightly or wrongly)

Two recommendations that I would offer is

1) don't put a rider on him for now
2) routine, routine, routine helped mine, when he was led from stable to field or field to field over winter he was far easier to handle than if you left him in a field and did nothing. I notice that the new owner of my old pony has left him out all summer and is now having problems with him and will have to go back a few steps to sort it out.

Leaving them to 'be a pony' is not always the best tactic

Edited to add: every one of the professional people who saw the pony over the years I had him said it seemed clear he had probably had a 'thrashing' at some point
 
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the moor breds (imle) do have a strong flight response. when he spooks, try and not turn full on to him-it's quite 'aggressive' body language and will spook him more (ditto running in hand). Keep your shoulder to him and keep your energy low, stop moving and try to move in a circle (hard I know, they are strong and fast!).

Are you lunging yet? Because its a good way for you both to get used to each others body language, short ten minute sessions to get stop/stand/walk on/trot on concrete. Mine is now 6 and fine but when he was much younger, me running along side was completely scary although he would just stop and stare.
tbh if he's like this at four, I wouldn't be in a rush to back him-some of them do take longer to come round and its better to not rush them, he'll also be better for being physically mature-remember they can be long lived :). I would just keep handling him-I did some work with mine with traffic, cyclists, tractors and leading out. He needs to trust you so don't be afraid to take your time, be consistent and once he knows you're on his side he'll be fab.


If you can, get an experienced Exmoor person to help you-even if its just once/twice. There's an Exmoor Pony Owners page on FB with people all over the UK.
 
oh, my older pony was moor bred and spent 4 years doing the rounds of low end sales before being bought by a kid lady. I got him at 14, rebacked him and taught him to do classical in hand work, lunging, jumping in hand and hacking. He also gave pony rides to my husbands disabled kids.
He was never reliable in long reins or traffic (although much better now 7 years later) and also didn't like any jointed bit-like none of them. He was ridden in a mullen mouth, then a mullen pelham and finally a peewee although I'd not recommend that for a youngster. I was determined my younger one would be good in traffic which he is, although we have a bit of work to do with motorbikes (which we rarely see).
 
Thank you both for replying.

I'm not in a hurry to ride him. In hindsight it was to soon to have a person on him but the problem has only really become apparent in the past couple of weeks. I think before everything was so quiet and controlled he was never really put in a position where he felt like he had to get away. The good thing is he is not massively spooky so it's not something that happens all the time, it just happens very quickly when it does. He's actually only been sat on in the stable and I think it's probably helped to start desensitising him to things behind him so no harm done.
He does lunge so I think I will carry on with that and just try to spend as much time as I can with him. It's a shame it's winter soon, I've just got a field with stables in so it does limit what I can do a bit. I'm hoping if I can get him comfortable with me then the rest will follow eventually!
I am lucky that I keep them at home so he can just be a field ornament if necessary but you never know when circumstances are going to change so I would rather make him useful!
 
One thing that may really help him get used to something round his backend and so make longreining easier is to get him wearing a rug, he has probably never worn one, he will not need one but it can make a huge difference to the nervy types once they get used to having a flapping rug on them doing no harm, obviously introduce it carefully as a bad experience will do more harm than good.
Keep on working away quietly be clear and firm he should accept you being in charge, often the nervy ponies make the handler back off for fear of pushing too much when they really need a firm hand to give them support, you should be able to gradually reduce the need to run if he learns you are confident in all situations.
 
Don't even attempt to long rein if he runs away with you... There's no point - you'll only teach him what he needs to do to get away.

Lunge him instead and keep your body language very subdued like MotherofChickens suggests. Use a schooling whip (if anything) - not a lunging whip. And make sure you do it in an enclosed space. Keep the circle fairly small to start with as this will give you greater chance of keeping him in if he tries to run off with you.

Free schooling is another thing to do to help build his confidence in you. Exmoors are extremely intelligent in my experience and will begin to have fun if there's something (food) in it for them so don't be afraid to offer a few rewards when the horse does what you've asked calmly and on cue (don't give treats at any other time - you must always have asked for something and gotten it, however small).

I wouldn't let him be and spend the winter grooming. Better get on with it and do as much groundwork as you can. No need for riding but lots of work in-hand, on the lunge and free in the school.
 
I was about to post a similar thread!

The 'subject' in our case is a 4yo Highland pony bought by his second owner from a big breeder off the hill and chosen out of a herd of 70 soon after gelding. His new owner did a lot of ground work with him and he is fine (to our surprise!) with walking over plastic sheets, plywood, a pallet, loading, etc. He is also fine with being groomed, having his feet lifted, etc. Two years later he was sold on to experienced horse owners due to family problems who put him up for sale after a few months alegedly because of a change of employment. They'd only had him a few months and claimed to have been long reining him. This lacks credibility as he will long rein fine (in the round pen) until the next spook when he can and will drag the trainer around at a rate of knots!

As regulars will know, I am an experienced trainer of other species and have now successfully broken a few Highlands using some of my own techniques with good success. Frankly, these could not have been easier -- perhaps one small buck or mini rear amongst several are the only protests we've experienced. This guy is quite fond of mini rearing though it is nothing that causes me concern. (I've seem proper rearing and this isn't it! :)).

He was also OK with being tacked up and led around...then suddenly developed a phobia about the saddle. Initially, I blamed the girl thinking she must have done something to upset him, but that has been ruled out. We got him over that one and then he'd spook at the lunging roller. Then a long rein. And so on. The individual spooks are dealt with by 'approach-and-retreat' techniques using a long stick to desensitise to the particular item (reins, roller, etc. but obviously not the saddle!). I can recommend that technique. It does work without putting the handler at risk. The spooks are very sudden and unpredictable. A few days ago we were remarking what progress he'd made as we put on the roller and he suddenly spooked again. He is a big strong pony and if he wants to go, he goes! He is mostly handled in a 60' round pen so he isn't going anywhere but as has been said a smaller round 30' pen would be better because if he spooks when on the lunge there really isn't anything to do but let go -- and that isn't really transmitting the right message!

I intend questioning the previous owners face to face as something has obviously happened. I had a visit from 'professionals' who thought he was expecting something to happen and was particularly nervous of people going behind him. Alkathene when handled by the breeders? We've worked on that and he is a lot better. I have endless patience (horses are easy after dogs and hawks!) and will solve this one, just could do with a few pointers, hence the post. Our previous problem child was a weaned foal who ran full tilt into a strainer post -- and then blamed me! I couldn't get near him, let alone put a hand on him, for months. As a 2yo, he is now one of the friendliest ponies on the place and not at all spooky, so there is hope. So this thread is being read with interest. I think what I enjoy most about training is the problem solving, so I am getting a belly full with this guy!
 
TwinkleT said:
Thank you both for replying.

I'm not in a hurry to ride him. In hindsight it was to soon to have a person on him but the problem has only really become apparent in the past couple of weeks. I think before everything was so quiet and controlled he was never really put in a position where he felt like he had to get away. The good thing is he is not massively spooky so it's not something that happens all the time, it just happens very quickly when it does. He's actually only been sat on in the stable and I think it's probably helped to start desensitising him to things behind him so no harm done.
He does lunge so I think I will carry on with that and just try to spend as much time as I can with him. It's a shame it's winter soon, I've just got a field with stables in so it does limit what I can do a bit. I'm hoping if I can get him comfortable with me then the rest will follow eventually!
I am lucky that I keep them at home so he can just be a field ornament if necessary but you never know when circumstances are going to change so I would rather make him useful!
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it won't have hurt to put someone on him but I'd not try riding away yet. I would also give up the longreining-he knows he can get away so don't reinforce that. fwiw my older pony couldn't give two hoots about the ropes, the key was his mouth, they really don't have alot of room in there some of them.

You don't need to do a lot or have a lot of facilities. Keep handling, little bits of lunging, tack on and off, groom him etc while standing above him, get him used to busy stables goings on-buckets, rugs and general good manners.

They are clever and very trainable once in their head. Older pony came to me very headshy-couldnt get near his left ear and very difficult to bridle. Now I hold a bridle in front of him say 'head in' (or 'head out' when taking off) and he does it himself. Semi ferals especially are way more attune to your body language and if he has had some dodgy treatment in the past he will remember it for a long time.
 
Dry Rot said:
He was also OK with being tacked up and led around...then suddenly developed a phobia about the saddle. Initially, I blamed the girl thinking she must have done something to upset him, but that has been ruled out. We got him over that one and then he'd spook at the lunging roller. Then a long rein. And so on. The individual spooks are dealt with by 'approach-and-retreat' techniques using a long stick to desensitise to the particular item (reins, roller, etc. but obviously not the saddle!). I can recommend that technique. It does work without putting the handler at risk. The spooks are very sudden and unpredictable. A few days ago we were remarking what progress he'd made as we put on the roller and he suddenly spooked again. He is a big strong pony and if he wants to go, he goes! He is mostly handled in a 60' round pen so he isn't going anywhere but as has been said a smaller round 30' pen would be better because if he spooks when on the lunge there really isn't anything to do but let go -- and that isn't really transmitting the right message!
Click to expand...

my younger pony, for no good reason I saw, got a phobia about his breast girth which he had had on with no issues for a couple of weeks. He decided that when I put it on, passing it in front of the first shoulder was terrifying (and he was shaking). He then got over it with some help, then got phobic about it again. He's pretty solid atm but used the touching game (sort of modified clicker) to get him happy to have it near him and on again. I think when they get a bit unpredicatble (to us) in that way, shaping programs such as Ben Harts can be very useful. This particular pony is horizontal about most things and pretty bold about others, but if he's worried, he is genuinely worried.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
my younger pony, for no good reason I saw, got a phobia about his breast girth which he had had on with no issues for a couple of weeks. He decided that when I put it on, passing it in front of the first shoulder was terrifying (and he was shaking). He then got over it with some help, then got phobic about it again. He's pretty solid atm but used the touching game (sort of modified clicker) to get him happy to have it near him and on again. I think when they get a bit unpredicatble (to us) in that way, shaping programs such as Ben Harts can be very useful. This particular pony is horizontal about most things and pretty bold about others, but if he's worried, he is genuinely worried.
Click to expand...

We led the pony with a rope head collar initially, then did some desensitising with some plastic on the long stick in response to some nervousness, then some free lunging (thanks to posters on this thread!) which really seemed to help. The last seemed to settle him down and then we lunged/long reined on one side only -- minimal pressure and mostly working to voice commands and body language. Stopped after 20 minutes as he had been really good with only a few anxious moments and no tantrums/spooks, so we are definitely getting there. Thanks everyone, these discussions are very useful.
 
Forgot to mention that we attached the long reins to the rope head collar. I wouldn't like to use a bit, too severe at this stage.

The round pen is without doubt the most useful piece of kit we have, baring lots of home made rope halters! It didn't cost a fortune either. The 32 posts were £1 each as they were an odd size (cancelled order for staking raspberries, I think!), then two rows of 1/2" boards, and some white tape for infill. We've gates arranged so we can shed off into the field shelter and another gate to back the trailer up to for loading training. It actually works too. The farrier was delighted to be able to work in the field shelter out of rain coming down like stair rods. Each pony was let out of one gate as another was let in the other end. Assembly line trimming! :)
 
I've thought of building a small 'arena' (currently have one of posts and tape) but the only area I can build one needs digging up first to sort out drainage, house soakaway and relocation of a septic tank. Its a hard place to drive posts into as half of it is hardcore and I live in an extremely windy place so most DIY building I can do won't be robust enough. I bought transport instead ;) but saying that, I am considering buying one of those metal lunge pens for summer use next year if I can.
 
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