Expectations when paying someone to ride

Hi @Bangagin it sounds as though she was perhaps under pressure / a bit nervous on the day she rode your horse for the first time.

As it sounds like it's going to be beneficial to you to find a rider to exercise your horse, you could always give the lady the benefit of the doubt and give her one more try? If you do, then specify exactly what you want her to do wrt grooming / wash off afterwards etc.

The deal breaker for me in the past was when riders didn't dunk the bit to wash it off after riding. Tbh, for some reason, I had more of a problem with that than not grooming or washing off after riding.😊
 
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Hallo2012 said:
generally, as someone who rides for people a lot, and with the exception of good friends or clients in an emergency situ...............you are paying me to ride and i am not a groom BUT it depends if you made it clear she would be getting ready/putting away too.

i dont get involved in tacking up or aftercare (again with a few exceptions) as IME people just take the piss and start expecting you to bring in/turn out etc or swap rugs and you end up riding for 20 min and doing their jobs! turned up to ride once and got asked to retrieve horse from muddy bog field when i'd only come in trainers and in an immaculate car-no thanks, see above, not a groom.

HOWEVER i always message same day with a detailed account of my ride and the plan going forward.
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Agreed, if I'm paying someone to ride, the horse is tacked up ready for them and they turn up and get straight on. OP would probably be better off with a sharer, there are experienced sharers out there, probably more now than ever before.
 
marmalade76 said:
Agreed, if I'm paying someone to ride, the horse is tacked up ready for them and they turn up and get straight on. OP would probably be better off with a sharer, there are experienced sharers out there, probably more now than ever before.
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I don’t actually agree. I just think the terms of the deal need to be clear.

For instance, when I used a pro to come in for my 4yo, my expectation/need was that they tacked up, untacked and washed off (weekdays, I work)

The horse was bought in from the field first thing and flicked off. Spent day in stable so pro could rock up at any time to suit them.

Pro perfectly happy. They charged per hour, my 4yo only needed 30-40 mins, so the rest was tack/wash.

It’s just about communicating and aligning expectations
 
LadyGascoyne said:
I have my two exercised by two regular riders and ridden by a pro dressage rider on an ad-hoc basis.

Expectations for regular exercise riders, £15 per 30-40 min ride (I pay 1.5 times if they go over on longer hacks etc):

Horse brought in
Light brush
Tacked up
Ridden
Untacked
Hosed off as necessary
Put away
Bit rinsed

Updates included along with invoices.

I set the agenda, with either me or our pro dressage rider, or pro eventer coach so this is the example:

Hi [rider]

Feedback on Miri from [pro rider] today:

- feeling very sound and even
- ⁠worked very sweetly but won't maintain a frame due to lack of strength
- ⁠when she's tired, she becomes heavier in front and lacks self carriage so she tries to balance herself on the rein

Given this, and the physio advice re working over her back and getting a swinging walk from behind, can you:

- hack for the next two weeks, focusing on letting her have her head and balance herself. I appreciate she's not an 'on the buckle' horse yet but giving her room for self carriage rather than allowing her to lean on the bit will be helpful
- ⁠longer strides on straight lines to encourage her to swing from behind.
- suggest better to ride positively and think about getting those bigger steps rather than letting her amble about or give quick, short steps
- ⁠if she leans in trot, half halt, if she comes back then big fuss but if she doesn't, ask her to come back to walk, reset so that she's really with you, and then trot again
- ⁠if she goes above the bit, don't fight her to come down, give her space to figure it out - visible shape is less important than engaging correct muscle groups
- ⁠no time in the school unless [coach] or [pro rider] can watch her for resistance and provide structure from the ground
- physio next week Wednesday 10am
- let me know if you want a lesson with [pro rider] or [coach]
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You get all of that for £15?! You're getting the deal of the century!
 
TheMule said:
You get all of that for £15?! You're getting the deal of the century!
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Yes, £15 per horse 30 min each but it usually ends up being closer to 40.

I have 2 horses, both ridden 3 x a week. Hacking, light schooling, and a little bit of jumping for the one horse. I pay for any lessons with the pros and coaches. This is for an amateur rider so not a pro but very competent, and who works on yards.

Our pro rider charges £60 per session, usually 40min.

So for the regular rider, it is £30 a day for 1 hour to 1 hour 20. £90 per week, £405 per month. Plus extra time if needed, and with free lessons.
 
I'm surprised the amount of pro-riders that expect the horse to be tacked up - the people I know that use a pro rider regularly is because they can't be there to ride as they are at work.

I'd expect the horse to be in the stable (or paddock if field kept) and clean enough to tack up without grooming and tack easily accessible but given it only takes a few minutes to tack up and un-tack/sponge off that's still at 50/45 minutes - assuming you are paying by the hour.
 
Northern Hare said:
Hi @Bangagin it sounds as though she was perhaps under pressure / a bit nervous on the day she rode your horse for the first time.

As it sounds like it's going to be beneficial to you to find a rider to exercise your horse, you could always give the lady the benefit of the doubt and give her one more try? If you do, then specify exactly what you want her to do wrt grooming / wash off afterwards etc.

The deal breaker for me in the past was when riders didn't dunk the bit to wash it off after riding. Tbh, for some reason, I had more of a problem with that than not grooming or washing off after riding.😊
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We all have different expectations! I think you need to start again and have a conversation.

Some people insist the bit is washed afterwards, others want the tack put up correctly, others the feet picked out before and afterwards, etc. etc.

If the horse was stabled I would not expect to give it a groom before riding, but if it is out a quick brush in the saddle and tack area would be appropriate. Also give a brush after riding. We were always told in the Pony Club NOT to wash down a saddle area with water after riding, we should wait until it dried an then brush it off. But most people seem to wash now.

If she is coming and being paid for one hour this would obviously be taking time away from riding.

I would advise to have a conversation and start again so you are both clear about expectations.
 
The poor pro I used had to drag a filthy horse in from the field. I said expressly not to worry about the state of her. Flick any dirt off under tack and crack on. When done untack and chuck out. I included that in the riding time. I have however had pros ride when I'm there in which case they are presented with a clean smart and tacked up horse and once they hop off, I take the horse and deal with it. People are usually fine with all scenarios so long as they know and are paid.
 
marmalade76 said:
Agreed, if I'm paying someone to ride, the horse is tacked up ready for them and they turn up and get straight on. OP would probably be better off with a sharer, there are experienced sharers out there, probably more now than ever before.
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If I’m paying someone to do anything then it’s on my terms … I only pay people to ride if I can’t be there (cos otherwise I’d ride myself) so tacking up etc is part of the deal - never had to tack up for an employee in my life … seems a strange way around to me.
 
I actually think as a pro tacking up is part of your health and safety, your are checking the tack, that its is in good condition, fits well not rubbing and it also gives you an idea if there any problems when ridden of a possible cause. This is basic PC stuff. Same with the quick groom, you are checking for rubs,cuts and anything else, if there is a problem take a photo and inform the owner, because if they find it later its 'your fault'. Even if someone tacked up for me I would check it, and the a quick check for injuries and the state of the shoes /feet, even if I paid to ride, its my body that gets injured if something goes wrong,
TBH I am just surprised at the lack of basic professionalism, never mind care for the horse. Over the years I have had several sorts of jobs, and the one thing you never do is take anything for granted on hand over, you check every thing you use and the work environment, equipment etc. If I was freelance I would make a check/ feedback form, if your insured if there is a dispute you have documentation.
I used to have a teenager ride one of my ponies in the school holidays and she had more about her than the person you are paying.
 
honetpot said:
I actually think as a pro tacking up is part of your health and safety, your are checking the tack, that its is in good condition, fits well not rubbing and it also gives you an idea if there any problems when ridden of a possible cause. This is basic PC stuff. Same with the quick groom, you are checking for rubs,cuts and anything else, if there is a problem take a photo and inform the owner, because if they find it later its 'your fault'. Even if someone tacked up for me I would check it, and the a quick check for injuries and the state of the shoes /feet, even if I paid to ride, its my body that gets injured if something goes wrong,
TBH I am just surprised at the lack of basic professionalism, never mind care for the horse. Over the years I have had several sorts of jobs, and the one thing you never do is take anything for granted on hand over, you check every thing you use and the work environment, equipment etc. If I was freelance I would make a check/ feedback form, if your insured if there is a dispute you have documentation.
I used to have a teenager ride one of my ponies in the school holidays and she had more about her than the person you are paying.
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I am amazed this 'pro rider' didn't ride bareback!
Even if the horse has been left in a stable, it's surely appropriate to give a quick flick with a brush as you check that you can put the tack on comfortably and make sure the horse hasn't injured itself on something since it was last checked. We all know what horses are like!
 
I have had some pro riders over the years, the first few were via an agency and they would come for say 2 hours and it was up to me what we spent those 2 hours doing, riding, grooming, mucking out etc. When the agency closed one of the girls carried on riding for me and again I'd pay for x amount of time and we'd do things to fill the two hours. She always washed off and cleaned tack etc if she was on her own and would find things to fill her time if I wasn't about either (she even used to take Nev the Queen of Shetlands for walks if was out of other things)

The second had the exact same qualifications as the first (AI) but was much less helpful unless paid for it. She would ride, wash off then go even if I'd tipped into and paid her for a full second hour. These were her terms however and as much as it annoyed me to be paying for 10mins out of 60mins work, those were the terms I'd agreed to. I also used to occasionally schedule a very quick 1 hour hack where she'd arrive to a fully tacked horse, and once we'd got back after precisely one hour she'd get off and stop helping/go. Again, that's the terms I agreed to.

So what I'm saying is that you need to find out their terms so to speak, and what they expect to do and be paid for. If it doesn't match yours then I'd say find another person if possible and be firm from the beginning the level of grooming and washing off you expect so there are no grey areas 🙂
 
I agree with what a lot of others’ have said here - I think you need to have a conversation with her about exactly what you are (and aren’t) paying her for and how much time you need allotted.

As to whether you continue using her
- if she was recommended to you by people you trust it might be helpful to ask them a little bit more about her and what she does with their horses, that way you might get a bit more idea of this is her usual standard. If it seems that it is then you’re in a better position to decide.

With the issue of not brushing the saddle area first, I’m a bit unclear on how clean the horse was when she turned up - but if there wasn’t any visible dirt on the saddle/girth area then I wouldn’t be fussed - as long as I thought that if there WAS then she WOULD have taken a brush to it!

With the quick tacking up, just something to bear in mind is if you work with horses you do become very quick at things like this - you have to go up a gear from when you’re doing it as a hobby - again I’d not be bothered as long as it was done correctly.

Fingers crossed you can sort this out and reach a solution that suits you both!
 
What I have learnt from years of employing people is you can’t expect young people to think like old people.

If you like her as a rider, just explain what you want! If you pay her for an hour, then explain you would like 10mins before and 10 mins after doing things and 40 mins riding.

But ime professional riders rushing in and rushing off is the norm!
 
Hallo2012 said:
generally, as someone who rides for people a lot, and with the exception of good friends or clients in an emergency situ...............you are paying me to ride and i am not a groom BUT it depends if you made it clear she would be getting ready/putting away too.

i dont get involved in tacking up or aftercare (again with a few exceptions) as IME people just take the piss and start expecting you to bring in/turn out etc or swap rugs and you end up riding for 20 min and doing their jobs! turned up to ride once and got asked to retrieve horse from muddy bog field when i'd only come in trainers and in an immaculate car-no thanks, see above, not a groom.

HOWEVER i always message same day with a detailed account of my ride and the plan going forward.
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This has always been my experience when paying someone to ride my horse.
 
canteron said:
What I have learnt from years of employing people is you can’t expect young people to think like old people.

If you like her as a rider, just explain what you want! If you pay her for an hour, then explain you would like 10mins before and 10 mins after doing things and 40 mins riding.

But ime professional riders rushing in and rushing off is the norm!
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It does seem to be the case that you have to be very clear in your explanation of what you require. A few young or younger people notice things / are more observant but the majority seem only able too work with short and very specific instructions. Sometimes it’s helpful to physically show or demonstrate - for example my granddaughter has been helping feed some of the animals recently and as she’s seen how things are done over a period of time she manages fine. Her mother is totally clueless though and would happily use up the last remaining dog/ horse/ chicken feed without thinking or checking that there would be enough for breakfast.
 
ihatework said:
Id expect a discussion as to who is doing the grooming of the horse.
If it's the freelancer then it needs to be built into their time and charges.
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I agree you need to talk about it in advance .
Here riders are handed a clean tacked up horse but may take the tack off on return especially if everyone is riding at the same time .
They don’t wash them down .
An hours riding becomes twenty minutes riding if they do the horse themselves .
 
It depends why someone is riding your horse. If it’s:someone riding because they have a specific skill set (e.g. teaching a young horse to jump) then they may well just come, ride and give feedback. And the owner may well want to be there. If it’s someone riding because the owner is working and has no time then of course there will be an expectation that they get the horse ready and see to them afterwards. Either way, expectations should be discussed upfront and the rider compensated for time spent.
 
lme said:
It depends why someone is riding your horse. If it’s:someone riding because they have a specific skill set (e.g. teaching a young horse to jump) then they may well just come, ride and give feedback. And the owner may well want to be there. If it’s someone riding because the owner is working and has no time then of course there will be an expectation that they get the horse ready and see to them afterwards. Either way, expectations should be discussed upfront and the rider compensated for time spent.
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My horses were ridden to help me out when I was too busy to ride. I was never there. The horse would be waiting for them in their stable, clean and ready to be tacked up. They would then be returned to its stable and turned out by the yard. There should be no expectations that the person you are paying to ride also deals with the horse afterwards, unless by prior arrangement and at additional costs (and if the yard permit the rider to turn it out, which some wouldn't).

You are paying for a ridden service.
 
Amymay Again said:
My horses were ridden to help me out when I was too busy to ride. I was never there. The horse would be waiting for them in their stable, clean and ready to be tacked up. They would then be returned to its stable and turned out by the yard. There should be no expectations that the person you are paying to ride also deals with the horse afterwards, unless by prior arrangement and at additional costs (and if the yard permit the rider to turn it out, which some wouldn't).

You are paying for a ridden service.
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Which is fine if you are on full livery :) I'd have expected similar when I was on full had I used an pro rider outside of the yard.

As I'm now on DIY I'd expect any rider I used to tack up and untack & sponge off as part of the service - in return, the horse would be stabled and clean with everything to hand as far as possible (e.g bucket of water & sponge outside stable).

Of course, that'd be discussed with the rider but if I had to be there to tack or pay for an additional groom to prepare the horse, it would be a totally pointless or expensive exercise and I just wouldn't bother.
 
I've never been on full livery.

However. If the OP is happy to pay an additional grooming service from the rider, then there's no issue. They just need to understand the difference between a paid rider and a groom.
 
Amymay Again said:
I've never been on full livery.

However. If the OP is happy to pay an additional grooming service from the rider, then there's no issue. They just need to understand the difference between a paid rider and a groom.
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Apologies, a yard with assistance available to see to the horse afterwards then. I'm still not convinced it would work for a lot of people if another paid person needed to do some of the associated pre or post ride care.

I totally appreciate on a professional yard where there are seperate teams of grooms and riders the rider would expect to only ride but I was surprised so many riders won't tack up or untack and sponge the horse down with a bit of water to make them comfortable afterwards for a client away from that setting. But obviously there is a market for it.
 
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You should talk to her and make things clear from the start.

Tacking the horse up and finishing him off, could be interesting for her.

By tacking up, she can feel the legs, have a check for any injuries or anything amiss. His the mare in season ? ect ect.

Finishing the horse, she could check the shoes, any cuts and so on.

Also, a quick text telling you where she went, how the mare was seems a must.

The best way is to talk to her, you are paying her, she doesn't do you a favour, it's a paid job, you are the employers so ask what you need to be done,
if she won't do it then don't use her services, simple really.
 
Amymay Again said:
My horses were ridden to help me out when I was too busy to ride. I was never there. The horse would be waiting for them in their stable, clean and ready to be tacked up. They would then be returned to its stable and turned out by the yard. There should be no expectations that the person you are paying to ride also deals with the horse afterwards, unless by prior arrangement and at additional costs (and if the yard permit the rider to turn it out, which some wouldn't).

You are paying for a ridden service.
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I think it’s mismatched expectations that can cause issues. I don’t use freelancers to exercise my horses when I’m not there, but if I were to, I would be clear about the services I expected them to provide, only employ people who were happy to provide those services, and pay the agreed hourly rate(s) for their time.
 
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