Expected costs of a part-share?

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PartTimeLurker

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I currently have a part-share who is on full livery. I pay half his livery costs and half his shoes, all other costs are covered by his owner. I pay this regardless of whether I can actually ride him (due to lameness or illness or holiday or whatever) and it's an arrangement that works really well. I have a really good relationship with his owner with healthy communication, and often stand in for her if she can't be there for whatever reason, so whilst my financial costs are fixed, I'm happy for my time commitment to fluctuate.

However, I've been offered another share at a different yard with a horse that is more suitable for the direction I want to go in and I am seriously considering the change. The only thing is that the owner is asking for me to contribute 50% of ALL costs, including any unforeseen ones. The horse is fully insured so presumably these wouldn't be enormous but I'm still uncomfortable with it. The amount she's saying it will usually cost isn't so different to what I pay at the moment, but I can't help feeling that as I don't own half the horse I shouldn't be responsible for half its costs?

What is usual in this situation? He's a great horse so I don't want to miss out on him just because I'm stuck on the way I do things at the moment, and really don't want to seem like I'm unwilling to take on responsibility (other than financial!). Does anyone else have this arrangement and does it work ok for you? What are the pitfalls and how do you get around them?

Any advice gratefully received!
 
It depends on the costs of the livery etc. really and how many days you ride.

For my previous horse I charged £125 a month (pretty cheap I think!) and sharer had 2 days per week to do as they wished. I also took them out competing/lessons/clinics as well.

When I shared I wouldn't want to be responsible for half of vets bills etc. as it wasn't my horse! I do put in my sharer contact though that if they cause the injury requiring vet treatment they pay the excess/the costs if it isn't something which can be claimed for which I think is fair enough.

I think the cost you pay for the share depends on the quality of the horse/yard and whereabouts in the country you are.
 
Most shares I've seen are £20-£30 a week irrespective of the owners costs - usually a great financial deal for the sharer because the owner is getting their horse exercised for free.

If you like the horse and want to move see if she will be flexible on the arrangements. I would be nervous of agreeing to a blank cheque - 50% of remedial shoeing or weekly physio the owner suddenly decides is necessary could add up or if the insurance has a high excess (mine is £500) or something is not covered by the insurance (they are good at wiggling out of something)

So say the owner forgot to tell the insurance about minor colic which is on the horses vet record - 2 years later the horse has had £4k of colic surgery and the insurance co request the vets records then reject the claim because the owner forgot to tell them about the past history - would you be committing to £2k of surgery costs???)

You have no say in what the costs are - so I think it's pretty unreasonable to be expected to cover half of them without question.
 
Think it should be percentage of known costs depending on how many days you do. As others say you could end up paying a fortune that you actually don't own. Agree monthly price to include livery, farrier, supplement and insurance so you know where you are.
 
Thanks for your replies.

I pay £225 per month at the moment for 3 days a week riding. All I have to do is let the livery know when I'm going to turn up, groom and ride, then turn out. Everything else is done by the yard. If I do anything else extra, like if the owner takes me somewhere in her lorry then I give her petrol money or buy her lunch or whatever we agree on. If I think the horse needs something, or if anything gets broken (ripped rugs etc) then I just let her know and she deals with it. It's a nice arrangement, I pay her by standing order so we never really talk about money, just nice horsey stuff!

I agree, taking on unknown costs doesn't make sense to me. That's partly why I don't own my own! So I will see if she is open to negotiating a fixed cost, as the horse is lovely.

But what timbobs just said about being responsible for injuries I've caused has got me thinking. Does that mean anything that happens to the horse while I'm on board? Or anything that happens on the days that I'm responsible? How did you define it timbobs?
 
PartTimeLurker said:
Thanks for your replies.

I pay £225 per month at the moment for 3 days a week riding. All I have to do is let the livery know when I'm going to turn up, groom and ride, then turn out. Everything else is done by the yard. If I do anything else extra, like if the owner takes me somewhere in her lorry then I give her petrol money or buy her lunch or whatever we agree on. If I think the horse needs something, or if anything gets broken (ripped rugs etc) then I just let her know and she deals with it. It's a nice arrangement, I pay her by standing order so we never really talk about money, just nice horsey stuff!

I agree, taking on unknown costs doesn't make sense to me. That's partly why I don't own my own! So I will see if she is open to negotiating a fixed cost, as the horse is lovely.

But what timbobs just said about being responsible for injuries I've caused has got me thinking. Does that mean anything that happens to the horse while I'm on board? Or anything that happens on the days that I'm responsible? How did you define it timbobs?
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I never actually had to use the clause- so didn't really define it! I just had it in there more to make the sharers think before they did things like jump/gallop on hard ground and potentially cause an injury.

I think you shouldn't be responsible for vets fees, as that is the owner's job! I would say around £200 a month is good price for a decent horse on full livery but I wouldn't want to be responsible for unknown future costs.
 
I agree, I think you'd need to understand what these extra costs would be, to compare to what you currently pay. And I think it should not be so open ended, as you don't really know what you are signing up to and horses can be flipping expensive!

I charge less than 50% of the livery costs (and nothing else i.e. no shoes, food, supplements, kit, vet etc) and I'm on full livery so similar to you in terms of set up, but it's been less about money for me and more about getting the right sharer and someone to exercise him (to save me paying the yard to do it!).
 
I'm in the same situation as Bernster. Henry's sharer rides as much as he likes when I'm away, then we go onto a more fixed arrangement when I'm back. He's on full livery and they pay £20 a week plus all shoes. I also have a clause in the share agreement like timbobs, which is very important for my situation as sharer regularly takes him out hunting and to PC rallies etc. I have defined it that they are liable for anything not covered by insurance (incl. the excess) that happens when sharer is riding/travelling him etc., but not for example if something were to happen in the field/stable on a day when they were meant to be riding. I've never had to use the clause, and share has only been underway for a few weeks, but seems to be working well so far.

I'd definitely be wary of paying 50% of all fees without some kind of definition. Especially if you're not going to get a say in what costs are...
 
The owner of the horse you're thinking about sharing is proposing what in my experience is a pretty unusual arrangement, and one that probably won't work for many sharers. If she decided she wanted the horse to have a new £300 rug or it needed a £4k saddle or a £100 bit, or she decides it should have really expensive monthly physio or trips to a water treadmill, would she be expecting you to go halves? Usually the sharer pays a fixed amount and the owner retains all the risk, and along with that risk, control over the horse's management.

It might be that this owner hasn't had/been a sharer before so doesn't know how these things usually work?
 
Thanks for the advice everyone, that's pretty much what I was thinking.

Yes Micropony I think you're right. The owner is a new owner and has never had a sharer before. I know someone on the same yard has the 50% agreement with her sharer which is probbly what put the idea in her head, but as I understand it this was a specific agreement as a stepping stone to taking the pony on on full loan, which isn't my situation at all. I don't know the ins and outs of the contract and it wasn't any of my business and I don't know the people very well so I didn't probe!

Either way I need to have another conversation with her and it's good to know that my initial reaction wasn't completely unreasonable!
 
You already pay quite a bit per month, you could keep your own Horse on DIY for that amount!!!!

I would not share 50/50 costs, I think there will be trouble down the line.

I charged my sharer £10 per day.
 
LaurenBay said:
You already pay quite a bit per month, you could keep your own Horse on DIY for that amount!!!!

I would not share 50/50 costs, I think there will be trouble down the line.

I charged my sharer £10 per day.
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You cannot keep a stabled ridden horse DIY at a yard with facilities for a total cost of £225 in many areas of the South East - farrier, bodywork, insurance, worming, vaccinations, stable and field rent, hay, feed, bedding take the total way over this.

Plus the original poster is not doing any chores currently.
 
I'm just curious do you mean you Share the horse, or Part loan as they are different things.

I cover the full costs of my part loan .... a whopping £65 every 2 months :D:D

Wouldn't ever consider paying the amount you pay, I could afford my own paying that much!

Majority of unforeseen is paid by the owner such as vet bills and his equipment. I wouldn't have thought it was unreasonable for you to pay the unforeseen costs if you share the horse, I part loan, and if I injure the horse or cause a preventable injury I have to cover the costs, which is fair.

Although, asking this is like asking how to pronounce book correctly, opinions vary!
 
i had a sharer for years with my old boy, she only ever paid £20 a week. my livery could fluctuate depending how many bags of shavings we needed that week but would never ask her to pay more. she didnt pay anything toward shoes, vet bills or feed as i felt that was my responsibility as the owner. it was my first time having a sharer and didnt want to ask too much incase people thought i was taking the mick!

if i was to get another sharer i would stay in the realm of half the livery and half farrier costs (my youngster is barefoot so not that it would cost much anyway!). as others have said the owner may just not have had a sharer before :) hope you get things sorted in a way you are happy with!

ETA my sharer did 3 days a week, sometimes 4 depending on my shifts. it still stayed 20 a week :)
 
Ha ha yes indeed merlo89. I think you would probably think I was part loaning the (current) horse, although confusingly the owner refers to it as a part share. I pay a fixed amount (which I know roughly equals half his livery plus half shoes) for 3 days riding. I have no (final) say over the horse's management, the biggest decision I make is what rug to turn him out in at night (which to be fair is a pretty big decision, especially at the moment!)

I'm not quibbling the amount I pay. It's worth it to me, and I don't really have the knowledge base at the moment to keep my own on DIY anyway. The owner has always been very transparent about how much things cost, I know she's not turning a profit!

The interesting thing though is the question of who is liable if I injure him whilst riding him. We've never discussed it (which we probably should have). I know he is fully insured and I have rider insurance but it's definitely something I would broach on my next share.
 
merlo89 said:
I'm just curious do you mean you Share the horse, or Part loan as they are different things.

I cover the full costs of my part loan .... a whopping £65 every 2 months :D:D

Wouldn't ever consider paying the amount you pay, I could afford my own paying that much!

Majority of unforeseen is paid by the owner such as vet bills and his equipment. I wouldn't have thought it was unreasonable for you to pay the unforeseen costs if you share the horse, I part loan, and if I injure the horse or cause a preventable injury I have to cover the costs, which is fair.

Most people keeping stabled horses, with facilities on site and paying rent cannot possibly keep their own horse for close to £32.50 a month.

You have previously said that the 18 year old horse you part loan for £32.50 a month is on private land and there is no school.

I still think even a barefoot ridden horse, living out on private land, kept properly would typically cost more than £32.50 a month with vaccinations, worming, foot trimming, bodywork, saddle check, saddle adjustments, dentist, minor injuries, vitamins and minerals, supplementary feed.

I think most people interchange the terms share and part loan. And use the terms to mean a range of things. Most sharers "share" a proportion of the costs or chores in exchange for a proportion of the riding benefits.

Part loan isn't a common expression where I am.
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PartTimeLurker said:
Ha ha yes indeed merlo89. I think you would probably think I was part loaning the (current) horse, although confusingly the owner refers to it as a part share. I pay a fixed amount (which I know roughly equals half his livery plus half shoes) for 3 days riding. I have no (final) say over the horse's management, the biggest decision I make is what rug to turn him out in at night (which to be fair is a pretty big decision, especially at the moment!)

I'm not quibbling the amount I pay. It's worth it to me, and I don't really have the knowledge base at the moment to keep my own on DIY anyway. The owner has always been very transparent about how much things cost, I know she's not turning a profit!

The interesting thing though is the question of who is liable if I injure him whilst riding him. We've never discussed it (which we probably should have). I know he is fully insured and I have rider insurance but it's definitely something I would broach on my next share.
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Unless you were actively negligent, and don't think it matters who was riding the horse when he was injured. Some rider insurance covers a bit towards the cost of any injury when you are riding someone's horse.

As an owner with two sharers, I trust them as sensible adults. If horse went lame when they were riding it is just bad luck. Same as if goes lame when I am riding them. Perhaps different as we don't jump / hunt / or gallop often. I'd not be looking for compensation, my insurance would cover it or not. Most lamenesses IME don't arise from one ride.

Liability insurance on the other hand is essential.
 
wingedhorse said:
Most people keeping stabled horses, with facilities on site and paying rent cannot possibly keep their own horse for close to £32.50 a month.

You have previously said that the 18 year old horse you part loan for £32.50 a month is on private land and there is no school.

I still think even a barefoot ridden horse, living out on private land, kept properly would typically cost more than £32.50 a month with vaccinations, worming, foot trimming, bodywork, saddle check, saddle adjustments, dentist, minor injuries, vitamins and minerals, supplementary feed.
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I'm fully aware of the cost of a horse.

He's not barefoot he has a full se of shoes which last him 8 weeks, which cost £65.

He doesn't get any feed and if he needs it when he's in full work I will purchase it. Worming hardly breaks the bank. He doesn't get vacinated. Doesn't need his saddle checked.

So I do pay for the whole cost of him.
 
I've been on both sides of the fence and I would never expect a sharer to pay 50% of everything. It's too complicated for a start. It would be a set amount each month for a set number of days based on regular basic costs such as livery, feed, shoes. Anything extra like vet bills, physio, teeth, rugs etc. I would be paying for as the owner.
 
I agree with everyone else that a 50% split is unusual in a share. I pay £100 ppm for mine and get two days a week, plus some extras when owner is away on holiday. Horse is on DIY so I do jobs and clean tack, but I am never asked to pay extra even if horse has had the vet/ been clipped etc. I just buy the occasional sack of carrots.
 
merlo89 said:
I'm fully aware of the cost of a horse.

He's not barefoot he has a full se of shoes which last him 8 weeks, which cost £65.

He doesn't get any feed and if he needs it when he's in full work I will purchase it. Worming hardly breaks the bank. He doesn't get vacinated. Doesn't need his saddle checked.

So I do pay for the whole cost of him.
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Are you genuinely unconcerned at riding a horse that's not vaccinated for tetanus? Riding a horse that doesn't get annual bodywork/ saddle check / teeth check?

How about equipment replacement costs? Harrowing and spraying fields? Maintaining fencing?
 
As something to buck the trend, I am in the process of taking on (I hope) a 50% share of a horse on grass livery. We have only ever discussed 50% of costs down the line, unless it is something that one of us is doing that the other isn't - ie costs for serious dressage - which is beyond me, but is totally feasible for the horse and other rider.

It didn't seem unreasonable to me, and perhaps what we will have is more of a part-loan, but I like the sound of a 'you break it, you fix it' clause in the agreement terms.
 
to me although they call it a share these days you aren't actually co-owning the horse so to expect you to pay half towards ALL bills is unreasonable.

the owner is ultimately the owner, part of the convenience of a share is that the sharer knows exactly what they will pay with no worries about the unexpected situations
 
Surbie said:
As something to buck the trend, I am in the process of taking on (I hope) a 50% share of a horse on grass livery. We have only ever discussed 50% of costs down the line, unless it is something that one of us is doing that the other isn't - ie costs for serious dressage - which is beyond me, but is totally feasible for the horse and other rider.

It didn't seem unreasonable to me, and perhaps what we will have is more of a part-loan, but I like the sound of a 'you break it, you fix it' clause in the agreement terms.
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The trouble with this is things mostly just break because they're old or not up to the job not because you've done anything wrong. It's a bit unfair if e.g. unluckily for you the wheelbarrow disintegrates whilst you are using it. If you genuinely broke something because you were doing something you shouldn't with it then fair enough.

I would not expect a sharer to replace standard items. If they want something extra then they can buy that and keep it when the share ends or if they want to gift something that's different.
 
50% of all costs is unreasonable because you don't get a 50% say in decisions - why should a sharer pay for supplements just because the owner is a supplement junky? Nor should you pay for equipment that will last longer than the share.

50% of standard keep - livery, feed, forage, shoes - is the maximum I think is justifiable, and even then that's well above the going rate.

In terms in injury - if the horse goes lame mid ride, who's to say it's the rider's fault? If the horse comes in lame from the field the day after you took it hunting, did you lame it when you were out or did it happen overnight? If you choose to jump a barbed wire fence and rip the legs open, then that's clearly the rider's responsibility - but injury and lameness is not usually clear cut ...
 
Interesting post. I've never thought to charge a sharer what the horse costs me as a % or relative to days usage they get of the horse. I have always put a nominal amount on it but I'm now considering advertising him at £20 per day, that's what he costs me in "basics"/fixed costs. That's almost double what I've asked for previously!
 
Big sigh... I can't find a sharer even though I'm not charging anything! All they might have to do is bring the horse in from field, groom him and maybe skip out. Also remove poo from the school if they've used the school and the horse has pooed. In exchange they get a nice properly surfaced well draining school to themselves, a lovely nicely schooled horse with manners to die for, a visiting instructor and the chance to compete.

On the rare occasions I've found someone they've been unreliable - normally I get a last minute 'can't be bothered' excuse or they simply don't turn up. Hard when you've made an alternative arrangement and suddenly have to rush back to deal with the horse.

The last time I shared - I paid £145 a month by standing order and I always turned up, regardless of the mileage, traffic or weather, even if I couldn't ride. The only time I had a problem was when I turned up on one of my nights and as I was emptying the wheelbarrow my back went into a really painful spasm. So I had to phone the owner and ask for him to take over.
 
OldieButGoodie said:
Big sigh... I can't find a sharer even though I'm not charging anything! All they might have to do is bring the horse in from field, groom him and maybe skip out. Also remove poo from the school if they've used the school and the horse has pooed. In exchange they get a nice properly surfaced well draining school to themselves, a lovely nicely schooled horse with manners to die for, a visiting instructor and the chance to compete.

On the rare occasions I've found someone they've been unreliable - normally I get a last minute 'can't be bothered' excuse or they simply don't turn up. Hard when you've made an alternative arrangement and suddenly have to rush back to deal with the horse.

The last time I shared - I paid £145 a month by standing order and I always turned up, regardless of the mileage, traffic or weather, even if I couldn't ride. The only time I had a problem was when I turned up on one of my nights and as I was emptying the wheelbarrow my back went into a really painful spasm. So I had to phone the owner and ask for him to take over.
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From experience I find that a lot of people don't trust these free ads, they think they're going to turn up and find a mental horse that no one else wants to ride. Sad really cause I'm sure you have a lovely horse.
 
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