Experience of claiming on BHS Gold member 3rd party liability?

tootsietoo

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Hello. I was wondering if anyone has had a claim made against their third party liability insurance cover which is provided by the BHS gold membership? Or if there are any insurance or equine lawyers round here? My horse kicked another causing damage which incurred £200 of vets bills. I assumed that this is the sort of thing which 3rd party liability insurance covers, but apparently unless my negligence caused the incident, the BHS insurance doesn't pay out. I can see that it would work the same way as motor insurance in the case of an accident ie. both parties' insurance companies will do their utmost to make sure that the other party pays out. And I can see that perhaps it could be argued that the "victim" in this case should claim under her horse insurance (if she has it) on the basis that the injury was an accident, just as if the horse had damaged itself in the field.

I would like the injured party in this case to be able to claim her vets bill from my insurer. However, I'm not sure that £200 is worth the amount of correspondence and time and effort that it will take to argue the case.

I just wondered if anyone knew much about this, and whether if I push it I will be able to persuade them to pay out?

The reality of the situation is that neither of us were really at fault, but as with all these things, a perfectly good argument can be constructed, out of perfectly truthful facts, both for my negligence and for my complete innocence!

Any experiences or knowledge appreciated.
 

ihatework

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Horses are horses, I wouldn't expect a 3rd party liability pay out if my horse was either the kicker or the kicked. Put 2 horses in together and that is a mutual risk you take.
The other person should claim on their insurance, although its barely any more than the excess.
 

SKY

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I was lead to believe whoever name is on the passport is the insurance cover. But I was lead to believe if my horse does any damage no matter what I'm covered. That's the whole point of insurance I know horses will be horses and this thing can happen. But is that not why we have gold membership to cover for this. Touch wood ive never had to claim and hope I never do. But would like to think I am paying every year for things like this.
 

tootsietoo

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Hi, thanks for the replies, sorry for the delay in checking, busy weekend! It does make sense that 3rd party liability doesn't pay out for a pure accident. However, I'd been thinking of it as accident cover if my horse did anything to damage people or property. The wording that I have in my head from the membership blurb is that it covers you for "any loss or damage arising in connection with your use or ownership of horses". Which makes me worry a bit. What if my horse kicked a person and caused serious injury which incurred large costs? If my insurance wouldn't pay out because I wasn't negligent, how would the costs of the accident/injury be covered?
 

Lizzie66

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I've just re-read the BHS public licability insurance terms and exclusions. You should covered for negligence and any legal liability to an unrelated third party or their property.

You should inform BHS of the incident and provide the third party with your insurance details, it would then be up to the third party to pursue the matter with your insurance company. If they don't get satisfaction from the insurance company then they would be free to pursue you personally. You should not admit liability as this could invalidate your insurance.

If it is a pure accident then you may not be liable and your insurance company might not payout, however it would depend upon the circumstances.
eg two horses in a field where you both agree to the horses being in the same field then it is likely to be c'est la vie and pay your own bill. Your horse jumping in to someone elses field then it could be argued you were negligent in not ensuring that the fencing was secure enough to hold your horse.
 

YasandCrystal

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If my insurance wouldn't pay out because I wasn't negligent, how would the costs of the accident/injury be covered?
In the same way as if you or your horse incurred an accidental injury - you claim off your own insurance and if you are uninsured you pay from your own pocket. The key for insurance payout is 'negligence' - so only if your negligence was proven. I had a friend whose horse reared and backed onto the roof of a Jaguar car causing 00s of £s of damage - her insurer's refused to pay saying she was not negligent; her parents ended up paying privately due to the threat of court.
 

Goldenstar

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As others had said it will only pay out if you are liable .
The fact you would like to it pay the owner of the other horse is not relevant .
If the owner of the other horse seeks to persue you then the insurance would fight the case on your behalf , they might pay ( because it may be cheaper ) but it's more likely they would say you had not been negligent and where for not liable.
 

GrumpyHero

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I dont think you can claim for that from BHS Gold I'm afraid.
Though if another horse kicked mine I'd pay the vets bill myself - surely your friend was too close to your horse which meant it was in kicking distance? She should keep her distance - I don't believe she should be able to claim her costs from you. Horses will be horses.
 

honetpot

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Third party insurance is a very basic insurance provided by the BHS,if you have house insurance or any other insurance that the insurer can split the cost or pass the claim on to they will, that why its so cheap. Sometimes there is insurance cover for legal fees which can cover your legal costs but that's usually tied to another policy, usually house or car insurance and you pay an extra premium.
 

TequilaMist

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Public Liability insurance doesn't mean automatic payout.
My horse literally stood on a friends head and body she was critical for ages in hospital/rehab for a year so went thru the whole solicitor thing. PL covers you for being sued and person had to prove negligence. Petplan also said I had to check with my house insurance providers to see if I was covered for PL with them(I was). Petplan said they would not cover me unless I did this As honetpot said they then split the costs.

Even tho friend didn't manage a claim as she missed the claim deadline my house insurers still paid out about £3500 as their chair of cost for solicitors/behaviour experts.We only found this out when changing insurers many years later as we had to declare it to any new insurers.
 

D66

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We claimed on pony Club insurance when a horse reversed into a car door. The PC insurers asked if we had household insurance and then half the payout came from that. As we had only joined the PC to avoid troubling the household insurance if we needed to claim I was quite annoyed.:( If I were you I'd come to a private arrangement with your friend and give a contribution to the vet bill if you want to stay friends.
 

Goldenstar

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There's nothing wrong in this liability sharing is you are paying for liability in several places it's only logic that the cost of any claim ought to be shared .
 

Gloi

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I've no idea about your situation but many years ago I claimed on it after my pony damaged a parked car. They were very helpful and I had no problem with it (apart from answering questions on the insurance form like 'who was driving at the time?')
 

tootsietoo

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Thanks, it's interesting to hear experiences. Yes, friend and I have come to a private arrangement. It's not something I've had experience of before and hadn't thought much about.
 

irishdraft

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my horse was spooked by a car passing too close and bucked out at the car & caused quite a bit of damage, the driver was adamant that it was my fault, i went thru the BHS insurance and never heard anymore so assumed they paid out. Also a friends horse kicked a car out hunting and she claimed thru the bhs with no problem, this is probably more the type of situation you would be covered for I would think
 

AmieeT

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May I ask what arrangements you've come to? I really don't see why you should be made to feel like you have to pay for anything... at the end of the day, they're animals, they will kick. She surely knew that on getting one. It's unfortunate but it comes with the territory.
I wouldn't expect one of the liveries at our yard to cover the cost and I wouldn't pay for theirs either. X
 

tootsietoo

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No, she didn't expect me to pay for the vets bill. But I did contribute, to make myself feel better! Interesting, irishdraft, about the car being kicked out hunting and successfully claiming through the bhs, as that is a very similar situation to mine. I guess the car driver could demonstrate that she was negligent.
 

tallyho!

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Hello. I was wondering if anyone has had a claim made against their third party liability insurance cover which is provided by the BHS gold membership? Or if there are any insurance or equine lawyers round here? My horse kicked another causing damage which incurred £200 of vets bills. I assumed that this is the sort of thing which 3rd party liability insurance covers, but apparently unless my negligence caused the incident, the BHS insurance doesn't pay out. I can see that it would work the same way as motor insurance in the case of an accident ie. both parties' insurance companies will do their utmost to make sure that the other party pays out. And I can see that perhaps it could be argued that the "victim" in this case should claim under her horse insurance (if she has it) on the basis that the injury was an accident, just as if the horse had damaged itself in the field.

I would like the injured party in this case to be able to claim her vets bill from my insurer. However, I'm not sure that £200 is worth the amount of correspondence and time and effort that it will take to argue the case.

I just wondered if anyone knew much about this, and whether if I push it I will be able to persuade them to pay out?

The reality of the situation is that neither of us were really at fault, but as with all these things, a perfectly good argument can be constructed, out of perfectly truthful facts, both for my negligence and for my complete innocence!

Any experiences or knowledge appreciated.

That's exactly what happened to me. My boy kicked a mare and I claimed through BHS gold absolutely no problem whatsoever. It took 8weeks but that was only because I had a three week holiday in between. BRIT insurance is the underwriter. They were brilliant and paid the owner of the other horse directly once she forwarded them her vets bill.

As long as your normal insurance hasn't got 3rd party, then it will be fine.

There's no point having BHS Gold if your horse insurance covers it.
 
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BHS_official

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That's exactly what happened to me. My boy kicked a mare and I claimed through BHS gold absolutely no problem whatsoever. It took 8weeks but that was only because I had a three week holiday in between. BRIT insurance is the underwriter. They were brilliant and paid the owner of the other horse directly once she forwarded them her vets bill.

As long as your normal insurance hasn't got 3rd party, then it will be fine.

There's no point having BHS Gold if your horse insurance covers it.

We're pleased tallyho! had a great experience claiming on the insurance provided as one of the benefits of our Gold membership! However, while we realise this thread is specifically about insurance, it's not accurate in a wider context to say there's no point being a Gold member if you're already insured. In addition to other personal benefits, membership means we can carry out our work in access, safety, welfare and education on behalf of all horses and riders :)

Also, just to clarify - the public liability and personal accident insurances on our Gold membership are provided by South Essex Insurance Brokers (SEIB) and currently underwritten by the International Insurance Company of Hannover Ltd and Millstream Underwriting respectively. Anyone with an insurance query relating to their membership can contact our Membership team on membership@bhs.org.uk or 02476 840505, or get in touch with SEIB directly on 0845 4500634 / 01708 850000 or email enquiries@seib.co.uk.
 
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