"experienced" rider my whatsit! *mini rant*

When I sold Henry I said in the advert and told everyone that despite his size, he was not a child's pony. He was strong, spooky, scared of people, basically pretty much wild. One lady rang up and wanted to come to see him anyway and when she got there she tried to stroke him over the door. Being the nervous wreck he was he shied away from her and she immediately said oh no he's too spooky for the kids ... Don't know how many times I'd told her he wasn't a child's pony and she had said in the phone he wasn't for her kids ??? :mad:

I don't know how I'd rate my riding, I ride racehorses but wouldn't say I'm particularly brave. Some horses I just laugh at while they leap around and be naughty, others terrify me! My own horse I'm fine on. Also when it comes to schooling I'm pretty pants as I've not had a proper lesson in yonks, think I'm a bit of an odd one :p
 
I don't understand why people over estimate their riding! As soon as they ride the horse it will be obvious if they have so why bother??

In Going to try a 16hh mare on Sunday and have explained that when I get on new horses I can get very nervous!
 
My riding is utter rubbish. I really am useless and as a result I would NEVER get on a strange horse, Id be likely to wreck it. I have actually given up riding TBH, I have has lessons with very good instructors but I'm too cowardly to ride well.
 
newbie_nix said:
Asking what level someone rides at is always going to be tricky to someone like me who probably doesn't appreciate the wider spectrum because until recently I only really hacked or rode in a school.
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If I were buying, I would expect to be asked this, and I certainly would ask if I were selling, as I think there are occasions when people really do not realise how little they know.

I was speaking to a guy I know, some while ago, he knew I had started riding and had my own pony. He said that he and his wife really enjoyed riding and would consider buying their own horses. I said "I did not know you rode", he said " Ohh yes, when we were in Spain last year we went out on a trek for two hours, and when we recently visited Greece we were out for longer than that!" He really did think that there was nothing to riding a horse:eek:
 
nikCscott said:
Over estimating YOUR OWN skill is one thing, it's the mothers that are more than happy to put Darling daughter on a green 4 year old pony after only 4 lessons that terrified me when loaning out Sid.:eek:
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This

Spotsrock said:
Because by the time u are any cop as a rider u realise how much there is left to learn. When ur novice u think walk trot canter 1 foot cross pole is everything so u can do everything.
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and this!!

They don't understand not only the dangers but the difference!! All they see is they or they child are better than the total beginners at the riding school!!

Unfortunately it is then up to the person selling the horse to tell them they are not matched, of course a lot of sellers just want to sell to anyone, shame but that is life
 
This problem will always exits whilst riding schools grade their clients as Novice, Intermediate or Advanced.
Without wishing to offend anyone who's riding is restricted to riding schools, I have yet to come across a riding school that would have a horse that requires an advanced level of skill to ride. It would simply be too much of a liability. TBH you would be hard pushed to find an intermediate level horse in a riding school.
I say this from experience. When between rides or working away from home I would often have a lesson at a local school and 99.9999% of horses were very simple to ride. Only time I had a fantastic session was down in Exeter when the owner taught me on her own horse who was PSG / advanced eventer. No way would this horse normally be used in the school. I spent the entire session jumping decent size grids the whole time without reins. Had to turn, approach, jump and ride away all on seat and leg. I would class that as a defining moment in my riding. Every other riding school session I've walked away from thinking "well that was a pleasant way to kill an hour"

My point is, while the professionals are telling people thay are advanced then that is what they will believe they are and you cant blame them for that.
 
But it does go the other way. When I was looking for a horse, I explained that I was a very nervous rider, and would need something that wouldnt panic if we landed in a heap after a small jump! Although I was doing xc and sj with Benson, I knew exactly how he reacted to whatever happened.
I was sold (by a dealer!) what they described as a dutch warmblood, good weight carrier, completely trustworthy,very calm, seemed to tick all the right boxes.....until we got him home! There was no way he was suitable for a novice, and we know now we were completely duped by them.
 
PaddyMonty said:
This problem will always exits whilst riding schools grade their clients as Novice, Intermediate or Advanced.
Without wishing to offend anyone who's riding is restricted to riding schools, I have yet to come across a riding school that would have a horse that requires an advanced level of skill to ride. It would simply be too much of a liability. TBH you would be hard pushed to find an intermediate level horse in a riding school.

My point is, while the professionals are telling people thay are advanced then that is what they will believe they are and you cant blame them for that.
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This is exactly right, and the situation is made worse with children, where the modern idea that 'everyone's a winner' means that the riding school cannot tell mum and dad what they really think of their precious offspring, for fear of losing business, and the opportunity to actually improve the riding of the pupil.
 
Excellent post paddymonty
When I used to teach we always done assessment class on nee riders who said they could ride, we were short staff one day so one filled in the office and booked a girl on the advanced lesson. She could not do a 20m circle or rise in trot without socking horse in teeth :( I had to stop her and ask her to get off as it was a jumping lesson and she needed beginner i did feel for the poor girl. When I used to teach on what was the advanced I always made sure they knew once they went out into horsey world this is only very novice and that's when you start to learn properly as there is only so many situations you can fit into an hours rs lesson. I did also were possible start the basics of the importance of stretching and lateral work although not easy on most rs horses :D
 
NeilM said:
This is exactly right, and the situation is made worse with children, where the modern idea that 'everyone's a winner' means that the riding school cannot tell mum and dad what they really think of their precious offspring, for fear of losing business, and the opportunity to actually improve the riding of the pupil.
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You should come to my riding school then. The owner will tell the kids and the parents exactly what she thinks (good or bad!) and there's horses and ponies for experienced and novice people and everyone in between!
I ride one who's a bit of a loony, but I feel safe enough on him so we can both learn together. I can learn to control a naughty horse, teach him manners and boost my riding and he's learning to be more calm and collected.

Though I do totally agree! My last riding school pandered to my parents and told them "I was really getting somewhere" when I REALLY wasn't. I'm sure they were just trying to get more money. I didn't want to get on a horse again after I left that place. Luckily, I gave it one last shot.
 
Well I estimate myself as pretty crap. Once upon a lifetime ago I galloped racehorses and was one of the better ones and got on a lot of household name horses. During one of my winters in California I also worked for one of the top SJ riders as a schooler.

Then I moved to Ireland and we had a breaking business for many years. Didn't make me a great rider, I just did well with babies. I just wanted to send back happy confident youngsters that could go on to do anything.

I now have a jumper that I bred myself and initially sent her away for jump training and showing. I didn't want to make an idiot out of myself. Now this year I will jump her myself and hopefully not embarrass my mare.

I see many many people that are much better riders than myself. I also tend to believe what people tell me in regards to their riding ability. Case in point a new girl moved in here with her "eventer". I thought great someone to help me at home with flat work. She asked if she could ride her so I thought yeah, great idea. My first clue is when she asked if she needed her vest. I said sure if it makes you happy. She says, well I don't need to get bucked off. Um, Abba, she knows better and has never come close to bucking someone off. She asked if I'd warm her up. Ok. She gets on (people if you can't get on efficiently with a leg up Flippin learn! Riding is a little athletic and my horses appreciate it!). So walks around endlessly telling me all her issues. Tries to trot and pulls her back and starts yelling at her. Um please don't yell at my mare. Abba's party trick to see how you can ride is to stick her head up and say no. One boot and it's a non issue. So I get more lectures on how mare needs this, that, and the other. I thought WTF was that. I hold eventer riders in the highest esteem even at the lowest and pony club levels. Anyway, no more riding from that one. I should have waited to see her schooling her own horse. Then I would have had a clue.

I'm pretty crap in most things. I'm broken a bit physically but I'm good on babies. Good at initial groundwork. I can still gallop just about anything. But if you saw me in other areas you might think me useless and I will most likely agree.

So for me the hardest thing is to judge riders in fairness I guess. But yes I hate selling and having to decide if person in front of me is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

By the way if you asked me if I was a good rider when I was 10, hell yeah I'm a good rider! LOL! Funny how time changes that!

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
By the way if you asked me if I was a good rider when I was 10, hell yeah I'm a good rider! LOL! Funny how time changes that!
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^^THIS^^

LOL!! I was a brilliant rider when I was 7 or 8... Then I hit 20, started riding for "real" and realised I actually sucked!! haha!

... 10 years later and I still suck! Perhaps just a little less! ;)
 
THIS POST SUMS UP EVERYTHING I HATE ABOUT SELLING/LOANING HORSES!!!!!

I have an incredibly talented 13.2hh NF pony. He has attitude but is a serious show jumping pony. It has taken me 5 (YES 5!!) years to put him out on loan...

I wrote a massive paragraph here about a few very amusing trials he's had...then i deleted it. I KNEW this post would press my RANT button!


AHHH H&H...how you cheer me up when i'm bored at work!! :D
 
I have been on all sides of this. I was a competent RS rider and thought this made me a good rider, now i have my own I know so much more but realise I am at best a competent Novice now.
I rode at a trekking centre last year where I know the owner. He has seen pics of me out on mine hunting, XC, etc and assumed I was a much better rider than i am. Needless to say I loved his 'feisty little number' but was ready to swap off him after 3 hours of bucks, bolts and difficult behaviour. I can do all sorts on mine but that is far more of a reflection on him than me.
I started out sharing ponies as an adult and very quickly realised that I was not up to most of them. Then again the first one was badly miss sold to me - he was supposed to be 4 1/2 and broken 6 months (I still wouldn't really have handled this but i didn't realise at the time - RS ego going on "of course I've ridden youngsters before") but was in fact 3 1/2 and just back from 6 weeks at the breakers yard. Why this girl was happy for me to ride her baby I will never know, she knew I wasn't up to the job but was desperate for him to be in work!!!!
I now have a lovely horse and have on occasion offered him out to riders when i struggle for time. I have stopped telling people the normal things as all I get is overweight people looking to get back into riding and people expecting a plod. He is a heavy horse but I keep him fit and responsive, if you're an RS rider he will take the p!ss big style! I had one that injured his shoulder and didn't tell me so I'm now very, very picky.
It's a mine field and I like the psychology thoughts on this.
 
Even though I have a horse I still go to a riding school as currently can't compete or jump at home,

The instructor will tell you if you have faults and praises when good. They have horses for all levels, I normally ride a 5 year old 16.3hh/17hh gelding who is very spooky and very strong also I ride a 4 year old who is very string and a bit unbalanced, but if the unstructor doesn't feel you can ride that horse they don't let you and do explain why, we are the top group and quite a few in the group have own horses so it's not the typical rs lesson!
 
This reminds me of when I went to help a younger girl who had my old pony on loan choose a new pony. In reality he was more than enough for her but she was convinced his refusing to jump or do anything faster than a trot with her was his fault and that he was too small at a stocky 13hh for her at 4'10". I was only 15 myself and felt a horrible sense of responsibility in curbing her enthusiasm and although I tried to point her in the direction of more suitable horses she just wanted anything local so it was easier to get it home. Her parents were very sweet, but a bit older and totally clueless and she had them wrapped around her little finger.

We saw a 15.2hh stocky coloured mare who was very strong and very quirky. I sat on her, survived about 6 bucks in a row, booted her and got carted across a field. I wouldn't even let her get on her and she sulked all the way home. A few more similar experiences followed and then I went on holiday. When I came back, she had a new pony - she had been with the yard owner's daughter (daddy had bought a farm because the daughter wanted one) a 12 year old who thought she knew it all to see one while I was away. 2 weeks later I had to put her on my not so easy Sec D half way round a ride as she was so terrified and ride her mare (not an experience I ever wanted to repeat) at the same time as keeping an eye on and talking to my boy to keep him calm and a week after that she had a broken collar bone, a dislocated wrist and a mare in foal she couldn't give away.:(:(:(

Taking me as the "experienced friend" was bad enough as I didn't really have a clue either but at least I knew her limitations and wasnt afraid to tell her no - unfortunately her parents couldn't do the same.
 
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well youve all terrified me now!! my lovely tb is going out on loan at the end of th year as im travelling, hes got years in him yet, full of life and recent x rays (he had a nasty fall) showed his joints to be in faab condition for an 18yo but oo old to sell and i love him too much!!

how can i prevent this?? he is great will jump but dressage is very weak, loves hacking and will alone but needs a confident rider who will just get on with it as he can be a pig. tbh worst when leading to the field just needs a firm handler who isnt scared of him... hes not going to wow the world at his age but needs someone who IS experienced how the hell will i ever find anyone????????????????

i think my riding ability isnt great but i rode for 8 years before i got a horse and when we looked it was all through my riding instructors i guess it gives a more accurate perception of real capabilities... people should sit a test and be graded so when they call they can say i am certifies grade ... ?????
 
I used to teach part time in a local riding school, nothing fancy but some of the horses and ponies were not plods to put it mildly. When a new customer came I would test their abilities in two ways - if they were coming for a hack I would see them cantering and jumping without stirrups first. Our hacks tended to be quite fast with potential for spooking. That sorted out quite a few. The other was to ride from the front of the ride to the back in trot, carry on trotting past the ride, perform a circle in canter at the front and then carry on to the back, to return to walk by the final corner before reaching the ride again. Hardly any of the ahem, experienced riders could manage that. Passengers, pure and simple albeit looking nice!
 
I would say I'm probably a novice rider in the real world but an advanced rider at a riding school. I've spent most of my riding life [8 out of 12 years probably] at riding schools and have really grown out of them. I used to be in the advanced lessons, but being in a group I never felt I advanced. I was stuck at that level. Just before I went to equine college I had a few sessions with the head instructor and in about 4 sessions I improved 10 fold. So much so that when I went to college and had my riding assessment they put me in a BHS Stage 3 equivalent group merely because I had a good position and could ride a tricky pony, I could get it going because my legs could wrap almost all the way round its belly!

They soon realised this wasn't right and moved me from the top of the 3 groups to the bottom! But I was far happier in this group, I wasn't pressured and could learn at my pace and do things I was capable of. I did have a could of sessions with the middle group and the instructor yelled at me and had me in tears. My confidence was shot at this point because of a couple of nasty falls and I just wasn't used to the type of horses at college, they were more like normal horses than RS horses. So my confidence and knowledge of RS horses just wasn't enough.

I did eventually find a few horses at college that although could be tricky but gave me confidence, especially an Irish gent who although could be strong and a bit difficult was probably the best horse I could have ridden. I went from crying when a jump was put in front of me to laughing and knowing it was my fault if he refused or it wasn't good enough. I did have an amazing instructor too at this time who really helped.

But what I'm saying is you have to be given the chance to improve and make the step up from an RS rider to a real world rider. If I'd never gone to college I wouldn't have been given the chance to ride better horses. And then I wouldn't have had the confidence to find a share horse when I came home who was tricky, strong, but taught me a lot. I went from jumping max 2'6 and not very confidently to jumping a 3'3 spread on a proper eventing horse without dying and enjoying it!

Yes, it's terribly annoying when people aren't truthful about their experience but if they're not given the chance to improve or told they aren't what they think they are they're never going to know better. It works both ways.
 
I think a lot of people think they're a lot better than they are. I often get calls from basically beginners (and none of my horses are for beginners). Was selling 2 horses in the autumn - had a 14 year old girl call me about a very large, green horse. When I heard how young she was, I explained she isn't a novice ride to which she said "oh but I ride lots of different ponies at the riding school and am hoping to learn working hunter soon"... okay... And for my other horses I had a lady call who admitted straight away she was an under-confident novice so quite why she was calling about my 1* eventer and showjumper I'm unsure - not what most people of her description go for!

I think people love to have a flashy horse even when their ability doesn't match it.
 
I've given up loaning out my mare for now. She's at a retirement livery until the summer hols from uni and then I'll have to reassess then.

But god, I had some interesting people come try her. She's a fairly straightforward ride, but she needs regular work or she'll start messing you about, she's also quite sensitive and a bit spooky so I wanted somebody with a bit of stickability to loan her. As she's 'pretty' she firstly seemed to attract 12 year old girls. I don't mind 12 year old girls... I was 12 when I got her! But I just wish they would be truthful about whether they were complete beginners!

My personal favourite was the 'girl taking lessons' who said she was a confident rider. So they came to see her, saw her tacked up (I've since learnt that asking them to tack the horse is a good indicator of their level...) and I got on and warmed her up a bit because the mother wanted to ensure she wasn't a loon. Fine. So I then gave the girl a leg up. She held the reins like handlebars and did classic armchair, as the mother cooed and said "Awwww you look so grown up up there! Your first time on a horse!". At which point I asked the child to dismount!!!!!!!! (Also, I did clarify with the mother, she hadn't just been riding ponies or anything - she was due to start taking lessons for her birthday!!!!)
 
im finding this with trying to find a rider/loan home for one of my horses. hes generally good but will take the mic out of a not experienced rider and can become strong.ive been very honest in my ad and still have total numptys ringing up.i can tell straight away when they say i can jump 4ft and gallop that maybe their not suitable.its dangerous really as although my horse is safe with a capable rider he wouldnt be with a novice!!
 
My friend advertised her 15hh QH as 'green, quirky, needs confident, experienced rider to bring him on.' She got: 1 woman who wanted a pet for her back garden (!!!) a chap that wanted a polo pony, who actually turned up to view and wanted to slap on his very old saddle, which didn't fit, and was very pissed off when my friend said no! And a father who wanted to buy the horse, for cash, unseen, for his 7 year old daughter, who had never ridden. 'They can learn together' he said. The mind boggles!!
If anyone described themselves as a 'good rider' I wouldn't let them anywhere near mine!
I have ridden since I was a small child and am now 52, I still wouldn't describe myself as 'good', I just don't think that good is a word that one uses to describe oneself :D (unless you are a long way up your own a**e :D )
 
oh dear, i had one hilarious (tho it wasnt at the time!) experience when looking for someone to part-loan my mare when i was pregnant. she is a 16.1 tb x irish draught and one day she is perfect and the next day can throw a decent paddy. i advertised for confident, experienced riders who wouldnt let her take them for a ride

had a lady ring who said she had ridden for over 20 years, had ridden youngsters, problem horses, racehorses etc etc.

i was fairly impressed until she turned up on my yard, she was wearing huge saggy wellies, a bandana round her head and was smoking. i was ready to send her away immediately, but OH is much more tolerant than me and said to 'give her a chance.' i had expected her to want to groom and tack up herself to get to know my mare a bit, but no she just stood around while i did it.

then she pulled down the stirrups and prepared to get on, until i asked if she was intending to wear a hat and she said 'oh well i didnt bring my hat, its fine' !!!!!!!!! why she would think i would allow anyone to get on any horse of mine without a hat baffled me. eventually my 'tolerant' OH said she could wear his hat which she tried to wedge on over the top of the bandana, before finally realising it wouldnt fit over and taking it off :mad:

and then there was the mounting, first i offered her a legup (we didnt have a mounting block so i always used a legup) and she had no idea how to receive a legup (for someone who said she used to ride work on racehorses i have no idea how she used to get on them!) then she asked to try and mount from the ground, and omg she looked like she was trying to climb a wall, with one foot in the stirrup and the other one flat against the side of my saddle dragging herself up, exactly like u do at a climbing centre whilst wearing a harness! my poor horse didnt move a muscle but looked very put out. eventually she managed to get on by standing my girl next to the gate and climbing on from there - why i ever even let it get this far ive no idea.

luckily my mare is extremely clever, and within 2 strides of moving off, said a flat out no and just planted where she was. cue a 'oh its alright horsey, whats the matter?' and a flap of the heels on her sides. megan promptly started reversing back up the drive towards her stable at which point i made her get off to make way for me. (OH was not happy with me riding whilst pregnant but i'd worked really hard on her to get her going confidently and i wasnt having that messed up in 5 minutes flat) and she went perfectly ok for me, but demonstrated exactly why i asked for a 'confident experienced rider' in the first place!

at this point i was ready to scream, and left my poor OH to get rid of this mad woman whilst i went and mutinously cuddled my old gelding at a safe distance.

excuse the extremely long waffly post but it really is crazy the sort of people who turn up (proven as once we left the yard we got halfway up the road and spotted the same woman at the side of the road sticking her thumb up to all the passers-by trying to hitch-hike her way home!!) - is it mean that we just drove past??? :D
 
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