Experiences please!! Horse hops/puts in a canter stride all the time in trot! help!!

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LizzieRC1313

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I would be really grateful if anyone has any advice or experience of owning a horse that does this - especially if you have fixed it!

Ever since we have owned my horse he has hopped/put in a canter stride in trot. It makes it impossible to ride the trot, and it makes it impossible to make any progress with him. He is essentially bridle lame, although he is absolutely FINE out hacking. So last year he had a made to measure saddle done by a highly regarded saddle fitter. We pessoaed him and rode bareback all summer and he seemed to really improve, although the problem wasn't fixed. He also had a mctimoney physio out a couple of times, although I never felt she really made much of a difference to him, and she never seemed to find a definite area that may have been causing the problem. He is absolutely sound on the lunge/out hacking/in the field/in canter and walk.

Anyway we moved yards in October and got a couple of really good dressage instructors and around February time I thought we had got it sorted, he had stopped 'trontering' and was really improving. Then at the end of this long winter he has dropped a lot of condition and in the last 2 or 3 weeks the hopping has come back with a vengeance. If it is simply the saddle then we can cope with that because it is fixable, (although having the altered after he gains or loses weight is a bit of a nightmare!!) although having the saddle made to measure last time didn't fix the problem. Alternatively it could be his back but as I said I wasn't massively impressed by mctimoney last time, it never seemed to make a difference, so I'm wondering if the vets would recommend a physio or maybe an osteopath would be more effective?

Once saddle and back are ruled out (which obviously we are already sorting out) then I'm stumped. His teeth are done regularly so I don't think it's that. The next step after saddle/back will be to open the vet can of worms.

Part of me thinks it could be evasion or habit, but I have to absolutely rule out pain first, but at this moment I'm worried we are going to have to retire him as a hack, which I really do not want to have to do. I have heard so many opinions on it from saddle fitters ( its a habit) instructors (he's just trying to go into canter/he's tense) showjumping instructor (severe weakness in his hind leg) I'm at a loss :confused:.

So basically what I'm asking is does anyone own or knows of a horse that does this and if they found out what was causing it and was it fixable??

Wine for later for anyone that has any experiences!!!
 
There are a number of things you could possibly do.

Personally, I would be tempted to see if there is anyone local to you that does thermal imaging. Could help to provide clues if there are any problem areas on the horse without going to the expense of getting vet tests.

After this, I would see what a physio says, probably followed by an Osteo if you have a good one locally. If these dont find anything, I would suggest getting a good lameness work up from a vet, and go from there.
 
wench said:
Personally, I would be tempted to see if there is anyone local to you that does thermal imaging. Could help to provide clues if there are any problem areas on the horse without going to the expense of getting vet tests.

After this, I would see what a physio says, probably followed by an Osteo if you have a good one locally. If these dont find anything, I would suggest getting a good lameness work up from a vet, and go from there.
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Thermal imaging is an interesting suggestion, and something I'd definitely consider. Would this pick up a problem with his hind legs as opposed to a pain in his shoulder? These are the two areas I think the problem is based in.

& LBM he is probably around 12/13 and his breeding is unknown, probably ID in there somewhere, maybe some welsh as well?? Who knows, he's mr anonymous!

To add as well, I think his previous owner mainly hacked and hunted him, so I don't think he has actually done much trotting. However, we have had him 2 years now so surely he should be getting it by now!!! We are feeling pretty demoralised with it today, as we really did think we'd fixed it and now it's as bad as ever :mad:

Thanks guys x
 
The thermal imaging should pick up areas where there is more heat, which in turn can show an area that has problems. Some people on here will say it is unreliable, however I've had it show up consistancies in my horse that I know are wrong.

However, it's only really worth it if you have someone thats local. I had a whole horse done for £85, there are some companies that will charge 2x this, which makes it almost pointless doing, as that sort of money will get you plenty of vets workup.
 
I agree that thermal imaging would be a good start. The fact that you say he has lost condition could also be significant. Either because his saddle may no longer fit him and is causing pain, or that the loss of condition is secondary to some sort of physical disorder and pain. Things that immediately spring to mind are kissing spines, sacroilliac dysfunction, foot pain, or gastric ulcers.Just because he has been seen by osteos and physios, does not mean that any of these things can be ruled out. My horse saw a Mctimmony chiro, a sports therapist and two vets, all of whome said his back was fine. When I insisted on xrays he was found to have very severe kissing spines. Another horse here was seen by three different physios who did not find anything other than minor little sore areas (no more than average). On referral to Rossdales, he was found to have arthritis of the neck, kissing spines, sacroilliac dysfunction and suspensory desmitis! His first symptoms were putting in canter strides in the trot, which progressed to going disunited and skipping behind in canter, to then being unridable. Isyour horse insured?
 
Wagtail said:
I agree that thermal imaging would be a good start. The fact that you say he has lost condition could also be significant. Either because his saddle may no longer fit him and is causing pain, or that the loss of condition is secondary to some sort of physical disorder and pain. Things that immediately spring to mind are kissing spines, sacroilliac dysfunction, foot pain, or gastric ulcers.Just because he has been seen by osteos and physios, does not mean that any of these things can be ruled out. My horse saw a Mctimmony chiro, a sports therapist and two vets, all of whome said his back was fine. When I insisted on xrays he was found to have very severe kissing spines. Another horse here was seen by three different physios who did not find anything other than minor little sore areas (no more than average). On referral to Rossdales, he was found to have arthritis of the neck, kissing spines, sacroilliac dysfunction and suspensory desmitis! His first symptoms were putting in canter strides in the trot, which progressed to going disunited and skipping behind in canter, to then being unridable. Isyour horse insured?
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:eek::eek::eek:

Yes he is!!! You've put the fear of god in me now!!! What happened to the poor horse?? I think we are going to sort the saddle (get it rechecked by the saddle fitter) and then see whether it improves and if it doesn't then possibly look into thermal imaging, or potentially just go for the full vet work up. I share him with my mum and she really enjoys dressage and isn't as into hacking etc so we are really stuck if he doesn't come right, and we don't have the time or money to keep 2. :(
 
LizzieRC1313 said:
:eek::eek::eek:

Yes he is!!! You've put the fear of god in me now!!! What happened to the poor horse?? I think we are going to sort the saddle (get it rechecked by the saddle fitter) and then see whether it improves and if it doesn't then possibly look into thermal imaging, or potentially just go for the full vet work up. I share him with my mum and she really enjoys dressage and isn't as into hacking etc so we are really stuck if he doesn't come right, and we don't have the time or money to keep 2. :(
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The horse is currently undergoing treatment. If he does not come sound enough to do dressage (unlikely), then he is a lucky boy who will be retired as a light hack, or field ornament.

It is highly unlikely your boy has all the things this poor gelding has. It really could be as simple as saddle fit, especially if he's lost condition. Gastric ulcers can cause hopping in trot as the horse tries to 'arrest' the swishing of the stomach acid on the ulcers (provides a temporary relief from the pain). Do you normally ensure he has something in his stomach before riding, such as chaff or alfalfa or good hay?

It could also be down to foot pain, and be something as simple as poor hoof balance, or something more serious such as navicular (usually treatable). So sorry if I've worried you.
 
Was bones Spavins in both hocks with my horse and, when I noticed another friend's horse doing it, se was diagnosed with the same thing too.
 
Wagtail said:
The horse is currently undergoing treatment. If he does not come sound enough to do dressage (unlikely), then he is a lucky boy who will be retired as a light hack, or field ornament.

It is highly unlikely your boy has all the things this poor gelding has. It really could be as simple as saddle fit, especially if he's lost condition. Gastric ulcers can cause hopping in trot as the horse tries to 'arrest' the swishing of the stomach acid on the ulcers (provides a temporary relief from the pain). Do you normally ensure he has something in his stomach before riding, such as chaff or alfalfa or good hay?

It could also be down to foot pain, and be something as simple as poor hoof balance, or something more serious such as navicular (usually treatable). So sorry if I've worried you.
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He does normally have food in his tummy, and the other day he had been in the field all day and was doing it really badly when he was ridden, even when dressage instructor got on. Also the farrier has never suggested anything seems to be wrong with his feet, and I would have thought that he would have displayed some symptoms on a hack? :confused: I don't really know anything about navicular or bone Spavins?

Don't worry, I really appreciate your advice and help!!! It's just really difficult cause it seems it could be any manner of things. We've just driven our new lorry home so could really do without the horse being out of action. :mad:

I have a jumping lesson tomorrow so am going to put loads of padding (inc gel pad) under the saddle and see if it makes any difference.

Thank you again for all those who have replied- really have given me food for thought!
 
LizzieRC1313 said:
He does normally have food in his tummy, and the other day he had been in the field all day and was doing it really badly when he was ridden, even when dressage instructor got on. Also the farrier has never suggested anything seems to be wrong with his feet, and I would have thought that he would have displayed some symptoms on a hack? :confused: I don't really know anything about navicular or bone Spavins?

Don't worry, I really appreciate your advice and help!!! It's just really difficult cause it seems it could be any manner of things. We've just driven our new lorry home so could really do without the horse being out of action. :mad:

I have a jumping lesson tomorrow so am going to put loads of padding (inc gel pad) under the saddle and see if it makes any difference.

Thank you again for all those who have replied- really have given me food for thought!
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Good luck getting to the bottom of it. When horses have general performance issues, it is so much harder to pinpoint the cause than if they have an obvious lameness. Very frustrating. I've been there many times. We currently have one under investigation at an equine hospital. He's been there nearly two weeks, because he decided not to show his performance difficulties in front of the vet! They have been riding him hard twice daily, and only now has he started to show the symptoms that he displays all the time at home. Very frustrating, and very expensive!
 
Jumping lesson today with gel eze pad + Anky saddle pad (so a bit more padded) along with old hanging cheek bit, and no hopping??? So confusing, I agree it is very frustrating and I really don't want to start the expensive route! I can imagine mine being the same and going beautifully in front of the vets. I'm going to get the pessoa out and the saddle checked and give it a few months and see if it improves. :confused: Thank you for all your help! Although I'm still none the wiser! :rolleyes:
 
If he has lost condition he will have lost topline too.
it migth be that he needs building up to get his back up to strengh to carry out the work you want him to do.

It's prob why padding out the saddle helped. Would def get saddle rechecked and I would ask your vet for their recommendation on physios in your area do if they need to do further things down the line then they already know that person.


Also it wouldn't hurt just talking to vet as well, just to ask advice.
 
One of my little pupils is currently having the same problem with her pony

He will hop part of a step into canter and back to trot - happened at a time in the lesson where I was asking the rider to get him going forward more so I considered that she was possibly pushing him out of his stride.

He finds getting on the correct lead in canter on the right rein difficult - starting the lesson fine then becoming a problem after he has done a few jumps.

If he has a short break during his lesson he will go back out and produce a sewing machine trot.

At my suggestion his owner took him to see a chiropractor and he found several area of problems - shoulder, neck and pelvis. He's been tweaked and now on six weeks paddock rest with daily massages - part were boney problems part muscular as a result of the boney problems.

Thermal imaging is brilliant and worth having done before and after being worked as it will show the degree of the problem.
 
had similar problems and after 3 vet referrals, 6000 quid of diagnostics horse was eventually diagnosed with hock spavins.
he too was fine to hack at the time, sound on lunge and in field.
 
Urgh.... From some of these replies Hock Spavins sound like they may not be an unreasonable suggestion :(

Think I will give him a couple of months in pessoa and then assess. Mum and I would like him to do Novice dressage tests and I'd like to show jump him... feeling very worried if he does have Spavins it could put a end to all that. :( £6000 worth of vets fees sounds like an absolute nightmare??

Thank you for all your replies folks x
 
If he has lost condition/muscle tone over the winter he may improve with correct excercise.

If he does have spavins, they will only get worse so delaying treatment will be detrimental to your horse. If you are insured for vets' fees I would get a full work-up, x.rays etc from your vet. Any treatment recommended by your vet should then be covered by insurance, including thermal imaging, physio etc.
 
just thought id mention it may not be the worst outcome (although possible). My boy used to do this. had everything checked including full bone scan and nothing found. turned out he was doing it when tense or he felt under pressure. took the pressure off a bit when schooled him, and gradually he has completely stopped doing it ! hope yours is easy to solve to.
 
I can't really be sure your horse is doing the same as mine, so this may be completely irrelevant. But my horse would hop in trot and struggled getting into canter on one rein. He had been out of work for a long time, before I got him.

It was his stifle. he has a weak stifle, probably from a kick or injury in the field at some stage. Vet had no clue and was suggesting all kinds of scans and talking about SI, back problems, and it all being very difficult to get to the bottom of. I asked if I could get osteo out and got permission. She said stifle and that it was weak. Had to do lots of walking in straight lines, few treatments, pole work and he really improved. Basically had to build up the muscles around the stifle to keep it strong.

He is now perfect but has to be kept in full, hard work, can't ever be a '3 times a week pootle' horse as he needs the muscle to be strong. He had 3 easy weeks at one stage and started to hop again. When he is in full work - not a single problem. Now does endurance, jumping, cross country, dressage, gymkhana.

So it needn't be the worst case scenario. I was so down after the vet visit as he just had no clue.
 
the thing is with spavins are they aren't that all easy to diagnos. some horses show typical symptoms and can be diagnosed with a simple x ray and others are more complex.
thats what happened in our case. various vets looked at various x rays and all came up with different diagnosis. he eventually went to rvc who did a bone scan etc and took it from there.
all the vets reccomended pts or field retirement as he had basically broken down and never responded to injections etc...
i was absolutely devestated as he was supposed to be a competition horse and we had gone thru nearly a year trying to get a diagnosis.
i decided to give him the summer and then i took ill so he ended up living out 24/7 for 14 months unrugged and unfed as i had no choice. he had never lived like this before.
i had a new farrier who really sorted his feet out and 2 years later he is hackable. i can hack him out for ages, pop the odd log.
he is the most forward going he has ever been. i don't trot much as he does sometimes do the hopping thing again and i wouldn't school him as don't think its fair but who knows what he will be capable of in time.
i never bought him to just hack but now so thankful i can!!!
 
My horse does this!!!
She's five now, when we bought her two years ago she did this funny hoppy thing, we just thought it was bridle lameness, it only lasted a stride, then went away. but now it's got worse, and it's every time we school.
she does this funny hoppy thing in trot, I don't really know what it is as im always on top, but mum says it looks like all her legs have been taken off and put back on again, and it's like a 'canter hop'
like your horse she's fine in the field, without a rider and on a hack. it's just schooling we have a problem with. it seems to be different every day.
we have had the mctimoney back lady out three times, this seemed to help at first, but now it doesn't. she said that the problems too deep for her, she can only relieve the symptoms, not the actual cause of the problem. we've had two different vets, the first one said two months light hacking, this made no difference, the second one has tried to work it out, but got nowhere either. he has scanned her hocks and ovaries, both of these are fine, and she's had bute too, but that didn't do anything. one time when he came she didn't even do it!! also had her saddle checked. we were thinking about bridle lameness/resistance, but she's far too honest a horse for that, and it seems too bad for that. took her to our friend who brings on horses etc, and has far more experience than us, she said it was just resisting, but it didn't feel the same as normal and the next day she was completely different!!
Someone mentioned sacroiliac???? It's such a shame as she could be a really nice horse, she has so much potential!! She's now on a years rest...:mad:
 
Don't waste your money on a mctimothy practitioner. After the vet has seen the horse look at getting in a registered sports physio for the horse.
 
It's really interesting to read all the replies on this thread. Thanks for sharing all your experiences. I think the only thing I can say for sure is that it might be nigh on impossible to diagnose what exactly is causing my boys problem. I would definitely not buy a horse that does this again, knowing what I know now!! I think with D, the problem is a weakness in his left hind leg. However mum rode him today and got him going nice and forward and there was no sign of it at all. I'm still jumping him for an hour once a week & that doesn't seem to be making it any worse which I would have thought it would if it was pain related?? Unlike others on here who have made the decision to put on field rest, I don't feel at all that he needs that and feel he would be wasted. It is a very difficult problem and really feel for all of you with the same thing. Especially freshy and J&D who have young horses, or horses with potential. My boy is just a fun cob so if it continues to be a problem he would have to retire as a hack.

Horses ey?!
 
Have one who sometimes did occasional odd bunny hop/bit of a canter stride behind when asked to really work hard&round into a trot. He scanned with slight inflammation of cartilage in one stifle. (Vet said it was only a negligible ampunt of inflammation.)As for above poster,vet recommended he is kept fit,so all muscles/tendons/ligaments supporting & surrounding stifle can do so effectively. When fit,doesn't ever do bunny hop thing. Is able to event,SJ,dr,everything:) Nothing fancy needed-just consistent work:D
Good luck,hope it's something simple for you :)
 
My horse did this for quite a while when I first got him, he was very babyish so all this came down to was weakness and lack of balance.
It was like a hop that would literally throw you onto the other diagonal and he did it constantly.
I was told to ride forward and to keep pushing on through it, also worked him on the lunge, various surfaces ect and it completely went away after a few months.
Good luck
 
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