Express Eventing - Make your own mind up.

"i was there today and thought it was a great concept but
needed some fine tuning, good for oli but sad for mary, this
was also an accident which could have happened anywhere
and i don't think any blame should be put on EE. it was a
huge loss to the sport and having had it happen to me i
know how mary must be feeling.. please don't write the EE
concept off just yet because i think with fine tuning and
some guidence this could really catch on among to riders
and i for one would really like ago."

I agree. Obviously yesterday was very sad because of the loss of such a brilliant and loved horse, but the concept was brave and creative. I think that the major issue was lack of time for the riders to familiarise themselves with a very demanding test. If you think how many times riders walk the course at Badminton and Burghley. And then how much time they have to prepare psychologically and tactically for it in their minds before they go. This means they should meet each fence with a clear picture of how they will jump it, what they will do if things don't quite go to plan and where they are going next. Everyone knew that it was going to be a 4* challenge but due to the constraints of the venue - they could only start building the course when they took it over from the rugby at 9pm on saturday night-, and the pace of the day, most riders were worrying more about where to go next..there were several eliminations for errors of course as well as a few scenic tours.

I hope that Express Eventing will be able to go forward, having learnt from this experience.
 
Thanks for the videos, really interesting to see.
Alex's dressage was pretty good- It was a sensible floor plan given his little olympic blip, he was very careful about going near the cameras!!

Oli's round looks good on screen and FC did a great job- what a trier he is. WFP's round not bad, shame he got a rubbis stride into the bruses and then he didnt help, he just leant back
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I think it looks like a really good concept, from what i've read i would say a lot of the riders underestimated what the demands of the competition would be and weren't properly prepared. Mary's accident seems to have slightly tainted peoples view, but it was just a freak accident. I think if people compared this to the first time many youngsters go round an intro they wouldn't be too different. I think OT did a great job, i'm shocked everyone is slagging him off, he may of taken a few fliers but thats the name of this game he wouldn't of asked for them if he didn't trust the horse, he wouldn't do anything dangerous, it looked like a fab round and so much fun! it must be due to all his experience of doing the eventers grand prix, similar concept i did a great one at houghton, takes a certain type of horse my 15h thoroughbred coped brill!
 
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and look at the hickstead derby for example - loads of questions asked there and its surely not that different, as in the horses will all be running on adrenaline and there isn't much time to think before a new challenge....

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Ask anyone who's ridden around the derby course and they'll tell you that half the problem is getting the horse to concentrate on the next fence - again, though those are pure SJers who will not find it disconcerting to be placed to every fence
 
I was there yesterday and was really enjoying it up until poor Mary King's fall and the inevitable loss of Cavvy
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Which is so sad
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But aside from that I thought the concept worked very well and if that hadnt of happened my main comments would have been, the course was too confusing for the spectators, and next time should be easier too follow. Perhaps they could have done a simulation, like they do on TV, on the big screen and we could have known where everyone was supposed to be going before they started.
I thought the dressage to music worked really well and think it should be introduced at some 4*'s. Andrew Lloyd Webber and Arlene P, didnt really add and most of their comments were way off the 'real' judges marks. Perhaps they could do away with them and have a knowledgeable dr person, doing on the spot comments. I felt so sorry for Lucy W, who did a super test, to hear as she was still in the dr arena, Arlene P making the comment, 'the horse didnt seem to enjoy the music'
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I'll be interested to see what the riders competing thought of it but agree with some of the comments above, that if EE does continue, it will probably become a specialist horse event, a bit like puissance is in sj.
 
Actually, I agree that the dressage to music was great fun - some people's music choices were god-awful, but Clayton's was inspired and really kicked things off brilliantly, Vittoria's was great and Linda Algotsson's was also good.
 
I agree with your Lucy W comment 100%.

I thought she did a cracking test, the horse was completely on the music (unlike the vast majority of the others) and for me she should have been top 3 after dressage.

Arlene whats-her-friggin-name needs to be sacked. She added no value to the competition at all.
 
Agreed! And i was gobsmacked that Toddy ended up eighth, thought he deserved to be somewhere near the bottom, the horse was tense and it really looked a bit shabby, but everyone else seemed to like it so I was way off the money on that one!

When Nicholas Touzaint did his first canter pirouette I couldn't decided whether the horse had spotted the camera on the boom, whipped round and buggered off down the arena or whether he meant to do that. Then he repeated it at the other end so I decided it was part of the floor plan!
 
I wasn't there, but feedback suggests that the older more experienced horses coped better, and I agree that it is a specialist event.
It is similar to arena eventing, and perhaps some qualifiers at a less exacting level would a) prepare the horses a bit better, and b) allow riders to find which horses suit the format. TarrSteps has put the necessity for tailored horses much better than I could, and for it to work there will need to be some tweaks, not least the intensity of the jumping efforts. .
A load of preparation and work has gone into this, and I like the idea that it can easily be replicated across the world.
Obviously what happened to Cavvy was terrible. But it was a freaky accident, and has to be seen in that context and not reflect on the actual event.
As far as there being loads of problems, every fault made on the courses were seen, unlike at the big 4* events where even the interactive coverage doesn't give you everything. And the intensity of the arena will have upped the emotion. The concept has succeeded inasmuch as it has made the spectator far more involved. A test event without the public pressure might, with hindsight, have been a better idea, to prepare riders better. But what's done is done, and I think it would be very sad if the whole idea just disappeared.
 
I think that the concept of Express Eventing was a very good idea, however on the day it just didn't work. In my opinion, EE is unlikely to happen again, for a number of reasons... The cost of putting on EE was massive, yet not enough tickets were sold, there were many empty seats, and with so many tickets being given away for free, this cannot have covered anything like the costs, will they really be able to afford it again??

The way in which the corner after the bank collapsed after Toddy had jumped it was appalling, several horses banked this fence (not entirely surprising as it followed so close after the back, and was built to look pretty much identical to it), and I think we were very lucky not to see a bad accident here. The bank itself caused probably around half of the horses to be on their knees upon jumping up at fence 4, it looked from where I was sat as though the going on the top of the bank was just not right.

In my opinion, the course was too difficult for the first time in a stadium like this, the horse's were totally fazed by the arena style, and perhaps there should have been some more time-consuming longer alternatives? Seeing so many horses eliminated (yes... I know 5 of them took the wrong course, but there were still 8 others who did not complete...) gave the wrong feel to the event in my opinion, I believe it would have been more interesting and exciting to have had a course that allowed more horses to complete, just with longer times... Perhaps it would have been worth making it so that horses were not eliminated after 3 refusals, but simply had 20 seconds added each time.

The dressage I thought they could have been given a little more freedom to do some more difficult moves, Bettina's horse for example I know can do tempi changes etc, and would have made this phase slightly more exciting for the audience, although I think this phase was in general a success.

Cavvy's accident was a tragedy, my thought's are with Mary and all his connections, but his fall could have happened at any combination on any XC course of this level, admittedly, the atmosphere and the arena-style may have changed the way the horse's were, and had some impact on this, but I personally would view this as a tragic event, but just a very unfortunate freak accident.

I for one, wouldn't go and see Express Eventing again, I think it's a shame the event didn't work, as the idea was fantastic, but there were just too many mistakes, rather then leaving that arena excited and positive, everyone I know left feeling sick and flat...

That said, congratulations to Oli, he rode a lovely round for the most part (other than his VERY long stride at 13!!) and his dressage was, IMO, lovely to watch, and really fitted his music. I just hope that the bad point's from the day don't detract too much from a fabulous performance on his part.
 
I was there too. FWIW, I'm not sure these videos give a true picture to people who weren't there as they show the more successful rounds - the uncomfortable bits (leaving Cavvie out of this - enough has been said elsewhere about that
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) were all the world-class combinations unable to cope with the xc section. Matt123 (think I know who you are
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) is right to say riders need more time to learn the course - if that percentage of top riders go wrong there must be a flaw in the plan somewhere, they aren't all idiots!! Also, the intensity of efforts required really seemed to throw most (not all) of the horses, creating some unpleasant spectacles - Miners Frolic, to name but one, seemed to have his confidence really shaken. Presumably some tweaking of course design could help this, as well as riders becoming more familiar with what sort of questions such an event will ask and how best to prepare their horse for it.

Of course the riders don't want this event to be binned - look at the prize fund!!! BUT, that is assuming the sums add up to continue to be able to offer such enormous prizes. Ticket sales seem to have been half of projected, if rumour is true - certainly the 15,000 who were there (and many of these were freebies remember) looked pretty lost in the 80,000 seater stadium, I personally thought it lacked any atmosphere (but tbf I go to sold-out rugby fixtures there which isn't really a fair comparison
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). There seems to have been some muddle over the TV package, I speculate that the TV revenue won't be as much as was hoped for originally. Unless a major global sponsor is found (not easy in this financial climate), it seems unlikely that a future event would be able to offer anything like these levels of prize money. Will riders still be as keen if the prize fund is £25K not £250K? One for Matt123 to answer...

If it does continue, my further suggestions would be 1) Keep the celebrity judge's comments - entertaining if bizarre at times! - but add comments from chief technical judge, this would remove the confusion of some riders having great comments and cr*p marks, while others had the reverse, which was very confusing to the uninitiated. 2) Better food!! THe MS's catering is fine for a rigby match when you're only there for 2 hours and most people eat before or after but when you are stuck there all day you need something better, plus enough people serving that you aren't queuing for 45 mins for a cup of coffee
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BTW, you could have had a pint of beer straight away - at the rugby it's the other way around
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3) Scoreboard which showed the time as people were going round the course rather than after the round - the scoring was sold on the basis that we would know exactly what a rider had to do to win (like in a SJ jump-off) but in reality, we only knew after the round how they were looking compared to the leaders, not nearly so much fun. 4) Have a proper shopping village - people went there with money to spend and there were limited opportunities - would have helped the revenue generation, the atmosphere and the overall experience for ticket-holders. BTW, there was no notification for people on the upper tier that there were any tradestands anyway, so hardly any of the nearly half the spectators who were up there found their way down to the middle tier to go to the tradestands which were there!

My last point, however, does come back to the tragic accident - I know I said I wouldn't but it does have a bearing, inevitably. The organisers were despoerately unlucky to have this happen in the first running and to such a national treasure. However, we all know accidents do happen eventing. The problem with this format is that they happen right in front of (if it is successful) 50,000 people - at Badminton, if there is an accident, there are probably only a few hundred people at that fence, only a few of which have a really "good view" - the TV cameras can cut away quickly. We were all trapped in the unfolding disaster - I took my party of 12 year old out but they were still very distressed. Eventing suffers from bad press about this kind of thing anyway, my fear is that EE just makes the inevitable disasters more public and more intense. I'm not sure the sport can handle that
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Large gin and tonic if you got this far - I know I need one.
 
Spot on Tabledancer.

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I haven't had time to read everything - I was surprised at it being held straight on the rugby pitch although I understand that they had a match there the day before. But what about the pitch? how much turf is there actually on there because I have been to a concert at the stadium and know that it's concrete underneath.
 
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and look at the hickstead derby for example - loads of questions asked there and its surely not that different, as in the horses will all be running on adrenaline and there isn't much time to think before a new challenge....

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Ask anyone who's ridden around the derby course and they'll tell you that half the problem is getting the horse to concentrate on the next fence - again, though those are pure SJers who will not find it disconcerting to be placed to every fence

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I haven't once said anything to the contrary - obviously its not easy and will be harder for some horses than others. However all I am saying is that I don't think the problems that occurred are because what the horses are being asked is too much for them physically, which is what l_p_p said. I think its more that they couldn't cope mentally with it - which explains why some horses were fine and others went to pieces.
 
QR

I was not there and I do feel it is up to each individual rider to decide whether they should run it again, and of course owners of these fantastic horses. Mary's loss with Cavvy was tragic but it could have happened anytime, anywhere, it was just a freak accident, I think everyone is jumping on the bandwagon blaming EE.

I watched a you tube version of ollie's round and i have to say big fences BUT he rode it as it should be ridden at XC pace and attacked each fence in a brave (some would say reckless) manner. Those fences needed to be ridden that speed, it was not a showjumping course. I am not a big ollie fan but fair play he won fair and square and that took some balls. I think people forget how young the bloke is.

Dont write this event off completely it could be good in the end, with input from riders and professionals, maybe tweak it here and there.

Any form of eventing is going to carry risks, simple as that.
 
Brilliantly written and would be what i would write if i had time
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I came away a little embarressed to be connected to it (small advertising/sponsorship) to be honest, thought it was all a bit of a shambles.
Not something i would be happy to be connected with in the future until the whole concept is far more thoroughly and extensively thought through and all issues resolved.
 
I don't know alot about eventing, but i do know people can have very negative view on it.
In my opinion eventing allows good all round horses to show their abilities in all events.
This EE seems to have been very demanding, and again I state don't know much about eventing, but accidents happen all over, not just in eventing, but pure XC, pure SJ and dressage too! Its just a shame that Mary Kings accident happened on the first time this event has occurred!

Can I ask though is there a higher risk in indoor XC compared to outdoor XC? as (from the posted vids) there seemed to be space between MOST jumps...... but again, no xc pro so.....
(im a dressage person! hate me if you like!)
 
QR - I don't like the look of it as it stands, but regarding the point about the "no atmosphere, empty stadium", wasn't it held well into bl**dy Wales? (correct me if I've got that wrong!)

If they'd wanted more spectators, surely the answer's simple - put it in the middle of England.
 
Yes because no other events at the Millenium Stadium ever sell out and have been successfull held there.. just a few FA Cup Finals, MASSIVE Rugby matches, boxing matches, the Wales Rally GB, pop concerts...

The Stadium have a generally faultless ability to get people in and out of the ground quickly and efficiently. Its been honed over the years (and believe me it wasn't great to start with)

Don't go messing with my home town - by the sounds of it the location wasn't the problem. I'm not pretendign its perfect, but Cardiff is a darn sight more acccesible than Badminton, Burghley and various other events.

Diolch.
 
To me EE looked like quite a different challenge from 'normal' eventing and I would be worried that horses that normally spend years building up the confidence and skills to jump such demanding fences at eventing were suddenly asked to do so in this different context.

On a personal level I found it a bit dull and would not pay to go see it, but I do watch eventing both live and on TV.
 
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Don't go messing with my home town - by the sounds of it the location wasn't the problem. I'm not pretendign its perfect, but Cardiff is a darn sight more acccesible than Badminton, Burghley and various other events.

Diolch.

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Sorry, but have to disagree with you there. Burghley is damn easy to get to - It is located about 2 miles off of the A1, Stamford has direct rail links to birmingham, doncaster etc, and to peterborough, which has a direct link to Kings X. I think any place is accessible to people if they get their act together. However, I think more people from Scotland are likely to go to Burghley which is half way up the country than Cardiff which is all the way down the other end.

Sorry, but I think you should have thought that through a little more before you posted it.
 
no i meant mentally it was too much as the adrenalin diverts away from their thinking, and they need more time to think about what they'd done. I just thought that alot of horses looked like they needed the time to get their brains back into gear after jumping something v technical.

Its the one thing I love about how Janet Plant builds, she builds fences that ask alot mentally, and then has a very long gallop/straightforward before presenting at something else... which means that yes her courses sort the weak from the strong out, but they dont go overboard IMO... (I know you couldn't have gotten Janet Plant to build EE, Im not saying that at all, Im just using the example of what encourages horses to jump well and gain confidence in themselves...)

I think TD also summed it up beautifully, as did SC and lec in the previous posts
 
See now I thought Cardiff was very easy to get to, to be honest. I drove down from Worcester (so only just south of Brum) and took the M50 route (to avoid paying the severn toll
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) it took me 1hr30 and was a straight easy drive all on dual carriageways/motorways apart from the small distance from the M4 to the park & ride (which was clearly signposted from the motorway itself).

On the way back we did get struck in traffic on the M4 due to an 'incident' but forked off again up towards M50 and had a straight clear run.

So from the North you would have done M6 M5 M50 and down to the M4, from London etc M4 straight across, from South up M5 then M4. You will never find a venue that is easy for everyone due to the size of our country but being attached to a good motorway network makes it a hell of a lot easier, and Cardiff is just that, yes it is in Wales but (road works and accidents excluded) it is what 25mins from the Severn Bridge if that?!!?

Oh yes and add in good rail links and I'm told there was extra trains laid on as well, so in terms of which stadium to choose (as the set up as they had it required a stadium) I think they choose well in that aspect. Not sure where else they could have chosen really other than perhaps Wembley!?
 
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Spot on Tabledancer.

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I haven't had time to read everything - I was surprised at it being held straight on the rugby pitch although I understand that they had a match there the day before. But what about the pitch? how much turf is there actually on there because I have been to a concert at the stadium and know that it's concrete underneath.

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L, it is turf with a palletised system underneath it which means the pitch can be completely taken up and put down again depending on what sort of event they were holding, but essentially meant there was several inches of soil under the turf. Either way, the ground really was not a problem, it looked to ride well and that wasn't one of the complaints which came through.
 
Actually the point about Burghley was preciesly how hard it can be to get to - admittedly its nearly a decade since I've been. Its unlikley the house has moved but I appreciate the roads may have got better :-)

The reason the Millenium Stadium is such a popular venue is because it is right next to the train station which is direct into London stopping en route at various parkway stations. Seriously its why they kept coming back again and again and again with the various football stuff whilst Wembley was out of action. For this kind of event it is exactly the right sort of place it should be held. Its not the only one, but it is a good one. Cars are expensive (and yes I know so can trains be) but for a mass market event you need to hold it somewhere with good public transport right next to a train station. My understanding of EE is that was exactly the market they were going for.
 
Agree with Aliwalig on this! Elf, living in Essex of course it's difficult for you to get to - luck of the draw. Cardiff is direct, 1 1/2 hours from London by train, direct and about the same from Birmingham, direct to Crewe - get the picture? By road, it's 2 1/2 hours from central London, less than 2 hours from Birmingham etc etc. Very very easy from Gloucestershire, Bristol/Avon, Somerset, Devon, Herefordshire/Worcestershire... I live just over half an hour from me and comfortably compete at some of the same events as you do - it's really not that far
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! Possibly it does suffer from some misconceptions however...

As far as your last sentence to Aliwag is concerned - I think perhaps you might think again on that one - even if you disagree it's a valid point of view
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thanks for posting those vids. interesting to watch.
there are bigger gaps between the xc fences than i expected, actually. OT made it look very easy, all power to him. (i've watched Mary's round and she, too, was making it look easy, as classy as ever, until they just drifted off their line with such a tragic result. Can't be blamed on the course imho, having watched it, I thought the distance between the corners looked fine as long as they were attacked a bit... which is what xc riding is all about. I've only watched OT and WFP jump the corners too, and both made it easily on 2 strides.)
OT's round looked fine to me, taking strides out is fine on a good, bold, experienced horse. Sjers do it in jump offs and no-one has heart failure! Some horses really enjoy going on a long one anyway.
Just shows how others' comments can be really confusing/misleading, until you watch it yourself. I've read that Mary "tried to go on 1 long stride" (she didn't), for example.
I am a bit confused though, looks as if WFP jumps the bank the 2nd time (right to left) and then jumps another fence a couple of strides later. At the same spot, OT doesn't seem to jump the fence after the bank though, horse seems to just keep galloping, not rise. Am I going blind? Surely 20,000 people would have noticed if he ran past a fence... or if WFP jumped an extra one!?
 
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