Extra control leading needed - advice please

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Beatrice5

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Okay so we moved the horses across the road today. I promised my friend all would be well behaved as we have been practicing leading and doing respect and ground work and all great.

Well we were leading all three together for speed and convenience. I had filly she had mare (7yrs) gelding (4yrs) and they all got rather daft. Nothing crazy but just strong and excited to be going on a jolly.

I ended up swapping as mare and gelding were being so strong friend struggling to hold them. Growled at mare and had to wrap lead rope around her nose - hate doing this but we were going down a road and didn't want to loose anyone. Had control but only by the skin of my teeth and had to jab elbows into both of them most of the way down the raod to avoid getting trampled. I was not impressed with my normally well behaved horses.

Filly was a twerp, leaping, circling and trying to get up everyones bums poor frind yanked all over the place - yet at home we did loads of practice and she is a totally laid back, well behave poppet. Today she was an utter thug.

What would you put on filly for those occasional times when she's going to get over excited and you need control. I know I should have put bridle on mare but fillys too young for that surely.

It just showed me I can do loads of ground work and respect for personal space which is fine when everything is calm and settled but take them somewhere new and it's back to square one - Advice needed.

Do you use a controller haler / pressure halter ?
 
Yes as only a 2 min walk from my house. Pony not broken and neither is filly so can't ride them there. All Hi Viz , gloves etc and as I said we have done it before and all behaved like angels. Today they were a bit too perky.

It's a quiet country road and we only met one car who saw us easily and was very obliging and slowed down and let us cross to neighbours drive bless him.
 
With out bridles on your insurence is nul and void..

All three horses should have had bridles on. Simple. sorry.. young or not it should of had a bridle on.

Lou x
 
I think the most important thing to think about is only having one horse each to lead. Sometimes you need two hands for a horse if its being difficult, which is imposible if you are leading two horses together. Especially on a road where traffic might find it hard to pass anyway.

Its a good thing that you have been doing groundwork with them, but i think you have to make sure its really good so that you can stay in control with your horse listening to you at all times. Its no good having a horse who listens to u in the arena, but doesnt anywhere else. Perhaps you should practice your leading on the road, one horse at a time making sure you can keep the horse focused on you. Before u take them on the road, do they walk beside you, will they stop when you ask and back up whe you ask off a light touch? This is important that the horse really understands these signals so when you get into a tricky situation, both handler and horse know how to behave.

I normally train my horses in a rope halter, but i can also use a webbing halter if i wish and i can use whatever i want to lead out anywhere because ive made sure my horses know how to stop and listen. Its not the tool you use, but how you use it that matters. So i would say to keepworking on your groundwork and leading and backing up, nice and lightly, and if your road is quiet enough, practice it there too.

You dont have to use a bridle to take a horse on the road. Because we use halters or bitless bridles for hacking out, we wanted to make sure we were coverd by insurance without bits. It turns out we are. We just have to prove we are in full control of our horse. If you are concerned about insurance, contact someone about it but as far as i am aware you dont need a bit or bridle for taking horses onto the road.
 
They are not individually insured I have BHS gold membership but that is it.

I lead my NF pony out on his head collar for walkies regularly on his head collar and will continue to do so.

My farriers wife has an 8 month old filly they take walkies on the head collar - I cannot believe everyone who leads horses / ponies accross the road uses a bridle. What about those who ride bitless are they invalidating their insurance?

Was after constructive advice and to see if others use a pressure / control halter.
 
yes possibly they are invalidating your isurence... Your also not covered should your horse damage someone elses property.. you are literally as UNINSURED road user.. just as bad as an uninsured driver.. would you drive without insurance?

I gave you constructive information.. you insurence is void and they need a bridle on...

Lou x
 
Jenny thank you for your post.

Yes I have taken them out individually ( mare and gelding) but not filly as only just weaned but aim to this spring. Both mare and gelding very easy on their own it just seemed the group thing made it all rather exciting today.

When you say rope halter do you mean the really basic knotted ones ? Looked an ebay and there are so many it is rather confusing as to which are worth having. Pointers as to which to buy would be great.

I do agree will go with one person per horse next time but didn't want to leave anyone at home doing their nut but in retrospect should have.
 
I am insured with NFU, and it includes me riding bitless and does not stipulate that I have to have a bit in my horses' mouths to lead them on the road. I rang them and went through it carefully and followed up with a letter. So check what you are covered for.
Having said that, it doesn't sound as if your horses were quite ready to be led together like this. Maybe next time another handler, or could you take one first then the other two?
 
Rubbish not as bad as an uninsured driver - Thank you

Are you telling me everyone who owns a horse has individual insurance for each one?

As far as I was aware BHS gold membership gives me public liability concerning my horses. I do normally insure when horses are in work but am not going to do that for a once in 6 months 2 min walk accross the road for them to stay in the field for another 6 months - would you?

I was after advice on leading excited horses not insurance but hey ho.
 
Re rope halters, there is a lot of rubbish on Ebay, and a lot that don't fit well. For a rope halter beginner I'd recommend Lodge Ropes (just Google him), because he will provide you with well fitting halters. In any case, avoid anything that has a metal end on the tail end of the rope, they are not good at all. Don't let the rope over the nose sit too low down, just have them on as you would a normal headcollar and use a longer leadrope. They are sometimes just firm enough to deter a horse from leaning heavily into them (but sometimes they aren't LOL!).
Edited to add, the BHS aren't great fans of bitless, so that's one insurance it might be worth checking.
 
im with NFU and im sure im not covered for no bridle..

And I would say that most horses are individaully names on insurence policies.. and if not its a bit silly really.. lets be honest.. there isnt many prople out there who could afford to pay for an op for the horse off there backs.. i certainly couldnt.

Lou x
 
Thank you tiny pony :) I did think that re ebay. Will google your chap.

I do insure with NFU normally when I am riding so will double check their policy covers what I do when I take it out - think NF may prefer bitless so we shall see.
 
Nailed - How many op's has your horse had then paid for by your insurance?

I don't know anyone who has had value for money from their insurance - i'd rather put it in a savings account. Those I know who have had a pay out have had to have the horse pts for the condition not long after anyway and in my opinion if the op is so huge I cannot afford it then maybe a hard decision has to be made - sorry to sound harsh. My Mum has worked / owned / ridden horses all her life and to a very high standard and again has her BHS membership and nothing else.

The only reason I insured T when I first got her was as she had an unknown history plus when she turned out to be preggers and they covered any complications associated with that so I kept it going until H arrived.

Now I know her and that she is all in good working order I'll stick to my BHS membership for now.
 
We have 13 and they are only insured for Public Liability through BHS! Can you imagine the cost of individual premiums AND Vet cover, we keep money aside to cover vets bills and I'm afraid if something happened that we couldn't find the money for then THE decision would have to be made! I also lead out on the roads in halters, think nothing of it and am in control of my animals.

OP, I use a Dually halter and the 'Parelli' type knotted rope halters made from 6mm yachting rope, both are good to give you that extra bit of control although I do prefer the rope halters to the dually and find them more effective tbh, although the dually is better with a 'very strong' horse. Whatever you choose you will need to work with your filly to teach her how to respond to the 'pressure and release' but that should only take a few minutes and once they pick it up it sticks. Good luck!
 
Tinypony said:
Re rope halters, there is a lot of rubbish on Ebay, and a lot that don't fit well. For a rope halter beginner I'd recommend Lodge Ropes (just Google him), because he will provide you with well fitting halters. In any case, avoid anything that has a metal end on the tail end of the rope, they are not good at all. Don't let the rope over the nose sit too low down, just have them on as you would a normal headcollar and use a longer leadrope. They are sometimes just firm enough to deter a horse from leaning heavily into them (but sometimes they aren't LOL!).
Edited to add, the BHS aren't great fans of bitless, so that's one insurance it might be worth checking.
Click to expand...

Ditto this. I normally buy halters and ropes when the trainer i like does clinics here. I like his gear and know what im getting. Sometimes halters you get online arent that great, are too thin, too hard etc.
I also would prefer the halter to the dually. I guess i just find it easier to use. PLus i use a 12 foot line instead of a normal length rope or lunge line. Gives me more length of line, but not so much it gets hard to handle.
And ditto too, to make sure the horse will come off pressure really well. You shouldnt have to push or pull. Just ask, and they respond. You can also teach this with a normal headcollar, again its not what you use, but how you use it.
 
we either use a bridle (age irrelevant really, having them bitted is a positive really)
a rope halter (a 'yorkshire' rope halter, not a new fangled knotted jobby)
or headcollar (with looped nose if needed, and a lunge line so you've got the distance to play with if they get stroppy)

I've found the latter works with everything (big and small) just one good short sharp pull to say look pal just listen cos your not telling me what we are gonna do and they are right as rain, then you can loosen it off and lead normally unless they try to bugger off.

Insurance, well Im stuffed "nailed" cos i ride bareback with a headcollar to the field (only have liability ins. anyway), lead majority of the time in just a headcollar and all sorts.
 
That's the thing, having a youngster bitted isn't a positive to me because I back mine bitless. (But then, I'm just an ageing hippy tree hugging lentil eater who hugs bunnies). When the bit goes into their mouth I am hoping it will be a tool of refinement and never a blunt instrument. If they jump about being led in a bit, because they are getting spooky, it becomes a blunt instrument. I know a halter is a form of pressure, but I'd rather spread the pressure over their head if they pull about, than have it in their mouth.
On that note, I'm going to bed and will stay away from this thread. :-))
 
Oh finally I have found some sensible people and thank you for your helpful replies. I was getting worried for a moment!

Tinypony there is nothing wrong with tree hugging or eating lentils but they do give me gas ;) so I try to avoid them LOL

Re bitless would you lead in a bitless bridle out of interest? Willow NF has bit in mouth issues we are working on ( will now play with a bit if I hold it out for him but dislikes it on a bridle) but he is quite happy with his bitless bridle. Am I better getting him a rope halter for our little walkies of getting him used to going out in his bitless?

Off to scour internet for a rope halter now :D just sold a few horses things now must spend it again !
 
We, too, use rope halters and have NEVER found a horse that couldn't be controlled in one (I, too mean the old-fashioned cow-halter type, not the 'new-fangled knotted jobby that loopylozza describes, lol!) They cast about £5 from a local farm stores.

But I wouldn't ever lead 2 horses at once because you do need a spare hand I find, in case of emergency. However I understand that you wouldn't know which one to leave at home for the 2nd trip.
 
Beatrice, to be honest, the bitless bridle I use is a rope halter. I don't like the cross under bridles like the Dr Cooks. I lead my horse in my halter, backa young horse with just one rein, then tie the rope up to get two reins. Hacking out it's nice to have a mecate so that I've got a leadrope if I need it (you know, when there's aboutu22 of rope to make reins and a leadrope?). But to look posh riding bitless I use my beautiful Lodge Ropes riding halter, which is black with red tassles and red binding around the noseband bit, and some black clip on rope reins.
When a young horse is ready, then they learn about being ridden with the bit, but hopefully I've managed to teach them about avoiding leaning on the rein and holding themselves a bit before then. I am, quite honestly, paranoid about how I want a bit to be used in my horses' mouths.
I don't use the old fashioned rope halters, not criticising anyone who does, but I would prefer nothing that closes on the horse's head. I use the "new fangled" ones, which of course are very "old fangled" in places like the US and Australia where they are very common and have been in use for 100's of years. My rope halters never die (although they have been stolen once), they just get dragged through the mud, used and used, chucked in the washing machine and come out good as new. I lead, train and ride in them so think they are pretty good value for money.
In a safe place I might lead two horses together because my ropes are long, and my horses are well trained. So I can place one horse to walk at my shoulder and one to walk further back if needed and they will do it, or side by side if that works better. I wouldn't lead two on the road unless in an emergency for all of that, because I don't trust other road users. But I must admit, it just wouldn't occur to me to think I needed to lead anywhere from the bit, because I have as much control in my halters. In your case, I'd take the calm one alone first, then follow with the other two. Which is actually what I do from time to time as I have 3, and when we move he goes first, followed by the two little buddies who don't like to be alone.
 
Tinypony I don't have a calm one at the moment ;) Mare loves her nearly 1 yr old filly more than filly loves Mum. But Filly loves her big bro ( not really as he's a pure NF but she doesn't know that)

Soon Mare will get back out in big wide world and loose clinginess to not her nearly as big as her baby - well thats my plan :)

Your lodge chap is in the US does he have a uk supplier?
 
No he doesn't, but the service is very good, you don't have to wait a hugely long time for delivery. And I think the prices are reasonable for a well fitting and good quality halter.
Sounds like the plan is to get Mare out and about again and then you'll be able to manage with two handlers. :-)
The thing with the rope halters is that a lot of them have the knots in the wrong place, in fact I'd argue that the Parelli halters come into this category. They certainly have nosebands that are too big. If you look on the Lodge Ropes site he's even written an explanation of this. The knots aren't positioned in special places to exert pressure (as some think), it's the other way round. The knots should be positioned to avoid pressure being put on the wrong part of the horse's faces.
This is a pretty good fit, although you can see that I've tucked the tail of the rope away so that it can't flick up in his eye.
DSC01248-1.jpg
 
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Tell Rob I said hi. So many people have seen that halter and loved it. :)
We hack out in that when we want to look pretty and unusual. He does work in a Rockin' S french link snaffle as well.
 
Beatrice5 said:
They are not individually insured I have BHS gold membership but that is it.

I lead my NF pony out on his head collar for walkies regularly on his head collar and will continue to do so.

My farriers wife has an 8 month old filly they take walkies on the head collar - I cannot believe everyone who leads horses / ponies accross the road uses a bridle. What about those who ride bitless are they invalidating their insurance?

Was after constructive advice and to see if others use a pressure / control halter.
Click to expand...

Your BHS membership will be invalidated by not ensuring adequate control of your horses. Anything led out on the roads should be in a bridle. Bitless bridles do not invalidate insurance becaue the action of the bridle is to enforce control through a specifically designed noseband, and poll action. Neither of which is achieved by a headcollar.

You have received constructive advice. Put a bridle on.
 
On the insurance 'topic', I have just called my insurance company and asked them. (btw my 10 month old is clearly not in work and is still insured to the hilt)

They said they are aware that many insurance companies do impose a restriction saying that bridles should be worn when on a public highway, however they do not stipulate. So long as we have control of the horse, either in bridal, head collar or halter, she said it could just be a lead rope around his nose and head and we'd still be covered.

Insured with KBIS -- great company, highly recommedned. Not as cheap as some, not as expensive as others, but good levels of cover and reasonsable with their terms etc. When we had the boy castrated the other day, we had a slight post-op concern, I spoke to them and they said they would 'consider' a claim for any treatments required in that area post-op, as long as a qualified and experienced vet had done the op and they could speak to him/her. Luckily (so far) nothing as been required.
 
Thanks for that update. I think BHS insurance very unlikely to cover you, if I remember an old discussion correctly. However some other insurance companies are much more understanding of the bit/bitless thing.
 
Oh blimey more insurance comments LOL

Define adequate control ? I think I had control of my two yes they were enthusiastic but still with me so I'd say I had adequate control.

My friend and my filly well yes she was rather less in control but with youngsters they need to experience things to get used to them and she was very excited. No-one taking out a baby for the second trip accross the road in it's life is going to be 100% in control - It's an aminal not a machine (sigh) I would suggest none of us are ever 100% in control. But I would say she was more than adequate in the circumstances and has had a lot of experience working with youngsters hence she was my first choice of handler and I would not have put a bridle on her at her tender age but I will try a rope halter .

Plus all Henna did was try and rush up the others bums when we were on the road it was only in the garden she decided to whoosh about and be a twerp as she knew where she was going and wanted to rush off to eat the new grass.

Thanks again Tinypony and others who have added helpful and constuctive comments you are very much appreciated. And I love the photo btw I will try and find that one on his web site and I think T would look fab in it :)
 
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