Extreme fear of humans

[kimberleigh]

Has anyone ever sucessfully rehabbed a dog who is so frightened of humans that it just shuts down?

Ive worked wih plenty of nervous/timid/shy dogs but never one as bad as this girl appears to be.

Little back story for info - friend bought her a week ago (10month old mastiff breed) after buying another from same breeder overseas a month ago, totally different pedigree though. Said 1st bitch came (month older, same breed) and was slightly unsure in new surroundings, but within 2 days was his best mate.

This one arrived and was too terrified to even get off the transporters van. Wouldnt walk at all, flat to floor, head down, tail clamped between legs. Managed to get her home and into kennel where she refused food and water for 2 days, spent whole time inside kennel bed, must have came out into the run for the toilet but wasnt seen until day 3. Then she would flee back into bed as soon as she saw a human.

Started eating but not until human was out of sight. If kennel door left open she would venture into garden after human had been gone for about an hour. On sight or sound of human she would flee back to kennel and sit at back growling if approached.

Ive seen plenty of videos and there is zero aggression, it is pure fear...however videos of her with the breeder dont show an ounce of nerves.

Im thinking its a complete lack of socialisation coupled with poor genetic nerve to begin with, and the journey has knocked her for six - she just has no coping mechanism and has shut down around any human.

She comes to me tonight in an attempt to see if I can make any progress, before breeder will consider refunding money/swapping her for another etc...a fair amount of money was paid for her so my friend wants to try everything possible.

Im thinking she isnt right and never fully will be, so will therefore be unsuitable for his requirements in any case. She could make progress here and then have that ruined by the smallest new thing.

Any experiences?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm afraid that I can't see how changing home yet again will help her to relax. Does she have contact with the first dog in her current home, ime the best way to teach her what is expected of her is to let her learn from the other dog.

 

[CorvusCorax]

A dog with these issues at this age, which is likely to grow very large indeed, is a liability, IMO. I would definitely neuter as soon as old enough, at the very least.

 

[kimberleigh]

No contact with other dog where she is as dog 1 will not tolerate other bitches. My own dogs here are great with others so hoping she will take some comfort from them.

Apparently she started 1st season the day she left from overseas, but no swelling or blood been noticed over past week.

Moving will certainly not help but frankly she couldnt get any worse from what Ive seen so its chance hes willing to take - he made zero progress in those 7 days unfortunately, despite being there pretty much constantly with her.

I feel heartily sorry that she is this way, as it must be awful for the bitch, but my honest thoughts are that she is a duffer and should go back to breeder if he is willing

 

[CorvusCorax]

And hopefully breeder will do the responsible thing.
Seeing more and more 'duffers' of huge physical strength and poor temperament being moved on, sold to unwitting public and/or entering the gene pool

 

[debserofe]

Has anyone ever sucessfully rehabbed a dog who is so frightened of humans that it just shuts down?

Ive worked wih plenty of nervous/timid/shy dogs but never one as bad as this girl appears to be.

Little back story for info - friend bought her a week ago (10month old mastiff breed) after buying another from same breeder overseas a month ago, totally different pedigree though. Said 1st bitch came (month older, same breed) and was slightly unsure in new surroundings, but within 2 days was his best mate.

This one arrived and was too terrified to even get off the transporters van. Wouldnt walk at all, flat to floor, head down, tail clamped between legs. Managed to get her home and into kennel where she refused food and water for 2 days, spent whole time inside kennel bed, must have came out into the run for the toilet but wasnt seen until day 3. Then she would flee back into bed as soon as she saw a human.

Started eating but not until human was out of sight. If kennel door left open she would venture into garden after human had been gone for about an hour. On sight or sound of human she would flee back to kennel and sit at back growling if approached.

Ive seen plenty of videos and there is zero aggression, it is pure fear...however videos of her with the breeder dont show an ounce of nerves.

Im thinking its a complete lack of socialisation coupled with poor genetic nerve to begin with, and the journey has knocked her for six - she just has no coping mechanism and has shut down around any human.

She comes to me tonight in an attempt to see if I can make any progress, before breeder will consider refunding money/swapping her for another etc...a fair amount of money was paid for her so my friend wants to try everything possible.

Im thinking she isnt right and never fully will be, so will therefore be unsuitable for his requirements in any case. She could make progress here and then have that ruined by the smallest new thing.

Any experiences?

Having rescued a number of dogs over the years, the 'nervous of humans' ones are the most difficult as they cannot be pushed into trusting and so take the longest time to come round. My feelings are that a kennel environment is not the best for these type of dogs. Although it is important not to be too nice - can't love them ok! I found leaving them alone (even letting them find a place to hide - feel safe) and letting them seek me out when ready, worked. By taking away the 'threat' they learnt I was safe place (person) to be around.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Personally, I would wonder why he got a 2nd dog, if the first one doesn't tolerate other bitches. It sounds to me as if a few people ought to to 'do the responsible thing'.

 

[kimberleigh]

Having rescued a number of dogs over the years, the 'nervous of humans' ones are the most difficult as they cannot be pushed into trusting and so take the longest time to come round. My feelings are that a kennel environment is not the best for these type of dogs. Although it is important not to be too nice - can't love them ok! I found leaving them alone (even letting them find a place to hide - feel safe) and letting them seek me out when ready, worked. By taking away the 'threat' they learnt I was safe place (person) to be around.

Yes give me a dominant/pushy bully of a dog anyday over a fearful one!

She is lucky in that I have no spare kennels at the moment so she is honoured by being allowed in the house, have a very friendly adult greyhound bitch and an adolescent springer bitch indoors at the moment - both of which have bags of confidence but will happily ignore other dogs too. The Springer acts like nothing exists but me, so will be perfect if this one is unsure of dogs (videos of her wirh breeder show her to be happy and submissive around other dogs, but they also showed her to be confident and happy go lucky around people so can be deceiving!)

 

[kimberleigh]

Personally, I would wonder why he got a 2nd dog, if the first one doesn't tolerate other bitches. It sounds to me as if a few people ought to to 'do the responsible thing'.

He has a few, and most are dog intolerant at best - nothing unusual with these types to be fair. They arent the fido/fluffy types who want to play in the park with strangers dogs, most get on fine with those they know but not adolescent /adult newcomers

 

[CorvusCorax]

Are you happy enough to potentially put yourself/your own dogs at risk ?

 

[kimberleigh]

Are you happy enough to potentially put yourself/your own dogs at risk ?

Having seen the videos of her, she is no risk to me in her current state of mind - cant say about dogs, having only seen videos of her wih breeder when she was a totally different bitch...but I'm confident that I would very quickly know if her intentions towards dogs were anything to be worried about.

I wont mix her with some of mine, as they'd either be likely to bully her or overwhelm her and neither would be conducive to helping in any way, shape or form.

Im trying hard not to judge before I've met her in person but my gut tells me she wont be suited to my friend (or 99% of people tbh!) If I were the breeder I know what I'd be doing, but very few actually do whats "best" for the dog in my opinion

 

[Blazingsaddles]

Has anyone ever sucessfully rehabbed a dog who is so frightened of humans that it just shuts down?

Ive worked wih plenty of nervous/timid/shy dogs but never one as bad as this girl appears to be.

Little back story for info - friend bought her a week ago (10month old mastiff breed) after buying another from same breeder overseas a month ago, totally different pedigree though. Said 1st bitch came (month older, same breed) and was slightly unsure in new surroundings, but within 2 days was his best mate.

This one arrived and was too terrified to even get off the transporters van. Wouldnt walk at all, flat to floor, head down, tail clamped between legs. Managed to get her home and into kennel where she refused food and water for 2 days, spent whole time inside kennel bed, must have came out into the run for the toilet but wasnt seen until day 3. Then she would flee back into bed as soon as she saw a human.

Started eating but not until human was out of sight. If kennel door left open she would venture into garden after human had been gone for about an hour. On sight or sound of human she would flee back to kennel and sit at back growling if approached.

Ive seen plenty of videos and there is zero aggression, it is pure fear...however videos of her with the breeder dont show an ounce of nerves.

Im thinking its a complete lack of socialisation coupled with poor genetic nerve to begin with, and the journey has knocked her for six - she just has no coping mechanism and has shut down around any human.

She comes to me tonight in an attempt to see if I can make any progress, before breeder will consider refunding money/swapping her for another etc...a fair amount of money was paid for her so my friend wants to try everything possible.

Im thinking she isnt right and never fully will be, so will therefore be unsuitable for his requirements in any case. She could make progress here and then have that ruined by the smallest new thing.

Any experiences?

Does she behave like this with human males and/or females? I can’t see how leaving her with you after just one week with her owner will make any difference to her behaviour. Your friend needs to work with her, at his home and build up the trust. That won’t happen if the bitch is living with you.

 

[kimberleigh]

Does she behave like this with human males and/or females? I can’t see how leaving her with you after just one week with her owner will make any difference to her behaviour. Your friend needs to work with her, at his home and build up the trust. That won’t happen if the bitch is living with you.

Both males and females, no visible difference whatsoever going by videos I've seen in her level of fear.

He basically wants me to be the one to break the news to the breeder that she's just no good I think - breeder trusts me and doesnt know my friend, so more likely to take my word than his.

I am almost 100% sure the bitch will prove me right in my initial suspicions...but I'm all for being proven wrong!

 

[Clodagh]

Just being nosey - as he obviously doen't have them as pets if they can't tolerate other dogs what on earth does he do with them? I have a feeling I am being painfully naive here, but why would someone buy a giant guarding breed unseen from abroad? I know it takes all sorts!

 

[SusieT]

What does he want bitch for? If it's breeding she's clearly a no goer as temperment can't cope with life. If it's a pet which it doesn't sound like she will probably come round in time to one owner, but may not be safe around others. If it's a guard dog sounds veyr much like it's not a winner. Bitch probably better going back to breeder unless home environment suits her better.

 

[kimberleigh]

Just being nosey - as he obviously doen't have them as pets if they can't tolerate other dogs what on earth does he do with them? I have a feeling I am being painfully naive here, but why would someone buy a giant guarding breed unseen from abroad? I know it takes all sorts!

He does protection work with them, and wouldn't usually buy an adolescent from abroad (pups yes), but this breeder usually has phenomenal dogs and he took a chance...which I'm pretty sure has backfired

 

[kimberleigh]

What does he want bitch for? If it's breeding she's clearly a no goer as temperment can't cope with life. If it's a pet which it doesn't sound like she will probably come round in time to one owner, but may not be safe around others. If it's a guard dog sounds veyr much like it's not a winner. Bitch probably better going back to breeder unless home environment suits her better.

She would've been a protection sports prospect...with the view of breeding if she made the grade at maturity! But thats a definite no no from me already, even if she was to come round I wouldn't advise passing those genes on!

It may be a complete and utter lack of socialisation rather than genetically weak nerve, but from what Ive seen so far I would think it to be a combination of both and nobody wants to produce litters of pups that cant cope with normal life

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Just being nosey - as he obviously doen't have them as pets if they can't tolerate other dogs what on earth does he do with them? I have a feeling I am being painfully naive here, but why would someone buy a giant guarding breed unseen from abroad? I know it takes all sorts!

Is this the same friend who had the breeding greyhound that he 'gave' to you to whelp, then, although he didn't want her back wouldn't allow her to go to a rescue?

 

[{97702}]

A dog doing "protection work" doesn't have anythig like a normal life anyway surely?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Are you happy enough to potentially put yourself/your own dogs at risk ?

Doesn't the OP have a young toddler, too?

 

[kimberleigh]

Is this the same friend who had the breeding greyhound that he 'gave' to you to whelp, then, although he didn't want her back wouldn't allow her to go to a rescue?

Haha no! Worlds apart from greyhound coursing

 

[kimberleigh]

A dog doing "protection work" doesn't have anythig like a normal life anyway surely?

For the most part no they tend not to...or not what the vast majority of pet owners would call "normal" anyway

 

[kimberleigh]

Doesn't the OP have a young toddler, too?

Yes I have a 2 year old son, though that has zero bearing on anything as he isnt allowed near any new adult dog - regardless of first impressions - until I trust it...and then only heavily supervised

 

[{97702}]

For the most part no they tend not to...or not what the vast majority of pet owners would call "normal" anyway

I think you’ll find that a lot of people who post in AAD are not your average “pet owner”

 

[splashgirl45]

i just find this very sad.. poor dog she must be so distressed all of the time......

 

[SusieT]

I can't see that your friend will enjoy having her for that sort of job and it sounds like she will find it stressfull - I'd send her back to breeeder where hopefully thye can resolve the issue for her.

 

[kimberleigh]

I think you’ll find that a lot of people who post in AAD are not your average “pet owner”

No I wasnt suggesting they are, I probably worded it badly! I meant if you talked to most people about protection sports work they just wouldnt get it because it involves bitework. Its safe to say this bitch is never going to be suitable for that though

 

[kimberleigh]

i just find this very sad.. poor dog she must be so distressed all of the time......

To see her last night in the flesh was very sad indeed. Beautiful looking, but just a shell of what a dog should be it really must be hell to live that way

 

[kimberleigh]

I can't see that your friend will enjoy having her for that sort of job and it sounds like she will find it stressfull - I'd send her back to breeeder where hopefully thye can resolve the issue for her.

Agreed fully! She is 100% not a suitable candidate for what he wants. She is at home with me now, no aggression whatsoever - pure unadultered fear. Breeder says he will come here to visit her so hopefully he will then take her back with him and refund my friend his money and until then I will work with her to see if I can make the world a slightly less terrifying prospect for the poor sod

 

[kimberleigh]

I may have to eat my words a little bit, but with pleasure!

The bitch isn't going to be a protection prospect, but I think she will very quickly make a sweet pet.

She is much more confident indoors than outdoors, and adores the dogs which I think will be her saving grace!

Since letting her have free roam of downstairs she has came out of herself more than I thought possible and all within a few minutes, actually approaching to smell us and not throwing herself on the floor when we walk around.

Far from what a 10month old should be, but not nearly as extreme as she was in the videos I was sent of her