Extreme girthiness - what could be wrong with him?

[Evergreen]

One of my horses has what I thought was a saddle phobia. When I tried him he was fine and then I got him home and he had a complete panic attack the first time I saddled him. Rearing, pulling back etc. I worked through it. Saddle all checked etc. I have to tack him up in the stable and girth him up really slowly, walking him in between each tightening. I have to ride with a loose girth but have never had any ridden problems until yesterday when I decided the girth was dangerously loose and tightened it a notch whilst mounted. It was still loose (could easily slide your hand underneath). I walked forwards a few strides and he just exploded. Bucked, reared and leapt. Then thankfully stopped rigid. I jumped off and tried to lead him forwards. Again he leapt up and his whole sides quivered as though in spasm. I loosened it one hole (as I say it had been still really loose) and lunged him for 5 minutes then rode him again. He was fine. He has never so much as bucked or reared with me in the year I've owned him before.

He's done the same thing with the lunge roller and the pessoa, almost throwing himself over backwards. His back has been checked by vet, chiro and physio and everything is fine. He doesn't seem to mind the weight on his back, it;s just the girth. I've tried all kinds including prolite and sheepskin. Any ideas?

 

[PonyFeet10]

Does he dip away from the saddle whilst you do the girth up?? Sounds like he's severely cold backed!!

 

[Evergreen]

Does he dip away from the saddle whilst you do the girth up?? Sounds like he's severely cold backed!!

No, not at all, but that may be because I do the girth up really slowly. If I did it up normally, he would just explode and leap about. If he controls himself enough not to explode he sort of quivers all the way up his sides like in a spasm. I suppose that is a similar reaction to dipping away. As I say, it is triggered by the sensation of the girth rather than the feeling of the saddle on his back as I have never had a problem mounting him. He stands beautifully. It's a mystery.

 

[Natch]

Things I can think of are; bad experience, skin condition, badly fitting tack, nerve damage, hypersensitivity from perhaps a virus, static shocka from nylon, a shoulder, back or barrel injury. Dont know what to suggest though as you seem to have had the relevant professionals out. Is he sensitive to the touch when grooming anywhere in that area?

I wonder if its possible for pressure there to affect him elsewhere in the body? Have you contacted his previous owner?

I wonder if its possible fpr the vets to test that area a bit like nerve blocking?

 

[Kaylum]

What kind of girth are you using out of interest?

 

[ruscara]

My horse did the same - he stood perfectly to be mounted, rode fine, but objected to the girth. It turned out (despite my getting people in to check everything) that the saddle tree was broken and digging into his back. As I said, he was a saint to mount and ride, bless him, and for quite a long time we had no idea what the trouble was He must have been in such pain
I can only suggest that you get everything checked again; there's obviously something he's trying to tell you.

 

[Renvers]

Wow that is an extreme reaction, I have a boy who is girthy but nothing like yours. You don't say how old he is but I presume after health checks you may have looked into his past history? (maybe if young he has issues going back to his backing??)

Have you tried a girth with elastic? particularly over the sternum area where he might feel more give as he breathes and not panic? Mine no longer has issues since i started using a flexigirth for jumping and an amerigo one for dressage.

Good luck

 

[Pearlsasinger]

IMO 'cold-backed' is simply an old-fashioned term for a horse which for whatever reason, doesn't like being saddled/rugged etc.
If I were you I'd get him checked out for ulcers. while you ae waiting for the tests, I suggest that you give him Aloe Vera juice, which if he has ulcers could make him more comfortable and if he hasn't is unlikely to do any harm.
Do you use an elasticated girth? If so I'd change it to an unelasticated one.
I sympathise as the mare I bought at the end of January is difficult to tack up/rug. We are gradually improving what I think is mostly learned behaviour but do give her aloe vera and absolutely no cereals - just a hi-fibre diet - and she is gradually losing weight as I think obesity is also part of her problem.

 

[Evergreen]

Things I can think of are; bad experience, skin condition, badly fitting tack, nerve damage, hypersensitivity from perhaps a virus, static shocka from nylon, a shoulder, back or barrel injury. Dont know what to suggest though as you seem to have had the relevant professionals out. Is he sensitive to the touch when grooming anywhere in that area?

I wonder if its possible for pressure there to affect him elsewhere in the body? Have you contacted his previous owner?

I wonder if its possible fpr the vets to test that area a bit like nerve blocking?

Good suggestions, thanks. Previous owner said the woman who owned him before her was really small and used to throw the saddle onto his back and tighten the girth really quickly. She said she had similar saddling problems with him but that he seemed to get over it. I do wonder if he's just had a really bad experience and a certain sensation when the girth presses on a certain nerve, it maybe triggers the panic attack. I cannot lunge him in any gadgets as anything that pulls at or moves the lunge roller sets him off.

 

[Evergreen]

What kind of girth are you using out of interest?

A leather 'humane' girth of the type that you can tighten straps independently, but he also does it with his sheepskin dressage girth and the lunge roller.

 

[Evergreen]

My horse did the same - he stood perfectly to be mounted, rode fine, but objected to the girth. It turned out (despite my getting people in to check everything) that the saddle tree was broken and digging into his back. As I said, he was a saint to mount and ride, bless him, and for quite a long time we had no idea what the trouble was He must have been in such pain
I can only suggest that you get everything checked again; there's obviously something he's trying to tell you.

Thanks. But it happens with both saddles and the lunge roller. So strange.

 

[Flame_]

I've known a few horses like this. Its pretty common although not really that well understood. Sometimes its the saddle, sometimes it's a sore back - usually through compensating for some other problem (feet and/or legs), sometimes the muscles that run under the chest under the girthing area are sore - again very likely to be as a result of compensating, or more often it is a mystery that people either learn to work with, or the horse injures itself or the rider during an episode and they stop looking for a reason and give up all together.

 

[Tr0uble]

I would be considering stomach ulcers and or a back/ribs problem....worth getting a chore out first

 

[Chabby Thoughts]

he could have intercostal neuralgia. My mare suffers from it, she hates the girth being done up. I treated mine with marshmallow extract you can get it from a health shop 2 tablets twice a day and Dong Quai at the same ratio to help get rid off any negative Chi. I was sceptical but it has worked wonders. She no longer takes it and is much better. she was on it for about two months. However I would get an equine oesteopath out to have a look over your horse

 

[bounce]

My horse did exactly this with saddles, lunge rollers and even a weigh tape. He had kissing spines. I would get the vet out as a chiro or physio isn't going to be able to diagnose either kissing spines or ulcers and will only likely treat the muscle spasms which will likely be there as the horse tries to compensate its movement for something that must be very painful.

My horse never dipped away from the saddle going on, just the girthing which was done slowly and step by step like you have done.

 

[jeeve]

I had a mare like this, her half sister was the same. Just extremely sensitive. Used to take me up to 45 minutes to saddle and another 30 mins groundwork with the saddle before I could get on, and if she was not ridden at least 3-4 times a week, she became unrideable.

She spent about 5 months with the trainer in the three years that I had her, and he spent hours workling with her, she improved, but I had to do huge amounts of ground work.

A dream to ride once you were on because she was a sensitive mare you just had to think your aids and she would be doing it before you even really asked.

I would see if you have a good local NH person, they can help with things like this, but probably no quick fixes, may take time and effort. Depends if you feel it is worth it.

I would NEVER do a girth up while seated on a horse, particularly one that is having issues with girth. I would also never put the saddle on and just get on, you need to make sure taht the horse is moving freely with saddle, before you get on. ie some groundwork, after saddled.

I used to ride a cold backed rig for someone when I was a kid, and as long as I spent time walking him after saddling he would be fine to ride, you could see a change in him when he was ready to accept the rider, usually 5 minutes -10 minutes.

I also have a slightly/mildly girthy ID, and I always make sure he is moving freely under saddle before I get on. He is improving heaps though, everytime, I need to spend less time in groundwork, than previous ride.

I would use a breastplate if you are not comfortable tightening the girth. I met someone the other day and her horses girth was quite loose, and she said she always rode with it loose ish as her horse preferred it, so maybe you need to have the girth a bit looser than you normally would.

You could try a girth with a bit of give in it too, a stretch type girth, I have iused one on one of my horses and seems to like it.

 

[Tnavas]

Have you had his backed checked by a chiropracter, one of mine was like yours but not as bad. His neck was out of alignment, once sorted which took several sessions he came right and we had no more girthing issues.

The neck being out causes the muscles in the girth area to be very tender, so when you do up the girth it causes more pain.

 

[Evergreen]

My horse did exactly this with saddles, lunge rollers and even a weigh tape. He had kissing spines. I would get the vet out as a chiro or physio isn't going to be able to diagnose either kissing spines or ulcers and will only likely treat the muscle spasms which will likely be there as the horse tries to compensate its movement for something that must be very painful.

My horse never dipped away from the saddle going on, just the girthing which was done slowly and step by step like you have done.

Thank you. Yes, I will have a chat with my vet I think.

 

[Evergreen]

I would use a breastplate if you are not comfortable tightening the girth. I met someone the other day and her horses girth was quite loose, and she said she always rode with it loose ish as her horse preferred it, so maybe you need to have the girth a bit looser than you normally would.

You could try a girth with a bit of give in it too, a stretch type girth, I have iused one on one of my horses and seems to like it.

I hate to ride with a tight girth on any horse and always have it as loose as possible. Luckily with this horse, his shape is such that saddles don't tend to slip, but the breastplate idea is an excellent safe guard.

I thought his issues were all sorted as I always took my time saddling and walking him between tightenings. I had been able to tighten his girth from the saddle without problems once he was warmed up, but this time I tightened it after only walking a few strides. That was the only difference. I think I will take the precaution of lunging him for a little while before riding in future though.

 

[Evergreen]

Have you had his backed checked by a chiropracter, one of mine was like yours but not as bad. His neck was out of alignment, once sorted which took several sessions he came right and we had no more girthing issues.

The neck being out causes the muscles in the girth area to be very tender, so when you do up the girth it causes more pain.

Yes, I had the Mctimony chiro out twice to him. He had no real issues with his neck or back. I also had the physio who said is back was excellent. I am tempted to try again though.

 

[Evergreen]

he could have intercostal neuralgia. My mare suffers from it, she hates the girth being done up. I treated mine with marshmallow extract you can get it from a health shop 2 tablets twice a day and Dong Quai at the same ratio to help get rid off any negative Chi. I was sceptical but it has worked wonders. She no longer takes it and is much better. she was on it for about two months. However I would get an equine oesteopath out to have a look over your horse

Not heard of that before. Thanks. Googling now!

 

[Evergreen]

I would be considering stomach ulcers and or a back/ribs problem....worth getting a chore out first

Thanks. I had thought about ulcers. He is an ex racehorse and i know they often have them.

 

[Oberon]

My friends horse had all the right lifestyle and management and he was (after decking her alot) found to have ulcers.

After the treatment, he is a different horse.

Sometimes the way they tell us they're in pain and from where can be truly bizarre to us, stupid humans.

The horse is telling you there is a problem. You have to figure out what it is

 

[Victoria25]

Just out of curiosity, what are the main symptoms of ulcers?
My ex racer is also a tad 'grumpy' when girthing up ... vet passed him as fine although he has absolutely no topline at all and is a bit 'irritable' when grooming/saddling sometimes ...

 

[BonneMaman]

You haven't said how old he is?

I used to have a boy that when he was a baby he was terribly girth shy - just like you said. We just persevered with him and he eventually got over it. But he was rug shy and roler shy too - we used to just leave a roller on him all the time so he desensitised to it.

 

[katherine1975]

I used to have a mare with similar problems, the physio and vet suggested a trial on bute and if this stopped it then we would know that it was pain related and look for solutions from there.

 

[Tammytoo]

I bought an ex racer who did the same. Chiros, physio and a visit from the vet came up blank. So she was taken in to vet's surgery to have her back x rayed - kissing spine.

Has your vet x.rayed the back, it's the only way to detect such problems.

Intercostal neuralgia came to mind as well.

 

[kickonchaps]

Another vote for ulcers here, there was a study I know of where about 98% of racers were found to have ulcers so I would put that to the top of the list of things to check for! Symptoms include agitation when girthed, reluctance to go forward, tail swishing, bucking, trouble maintaining weight, basically loads of things that could easily be attributed to something else!

I think it would be worth getting him scoped but in the meantime don't let him go more than 2 hours without food and let him eat while you tack him up, hay or grass or something, so you don't make him work on an empty stomach

 

[Evergreen]

You haven't said how old he is?

I used to have a boy that when he was a baby he was terribly girth shy - just like you said. We just persevered with him and he eventually got over it. But he was rug shy and roler shy too - we used to just leave a roller on him all the time so he desensitised to it.

Sorry, I missed the question. He's nine.

 

[Evergreen]

I bought an ex racer who did the same. Chiros, physio and a visit from the vet came up blank. So she was taken in to vet's surgery to have her back x rayed - kissing spine.

Has your vet x.rayed the back, it's the only way to detect such problems.

Intercostal neuralgia came to mind as well.

Thanks, I will talk to vet about both these suggestions.