Extreme girthiness - what could be wrong with him?

kickonchaps said:
Another vote for ulcers here, there was a study I know of where about 98% of racers were found to have ulcers so I would put that to the top of the list of things to check for! Symptoms include agitation when girthed, reluctance to go forward, tail swishing, bucking, trouble maintaining weight, basically loads of things that could easily be attributed to something else!

I think it would be worth getting him scoped but in the meantime don't let him go more than 2 hours without food and let him eat while you tack him up, hay or grass or something, so you don't make him work on an empty stomach :)
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Yes, I always give a haylage net whilst tacking up. He also has ad lib forage, though we do have another horse on the yard with ulcers and she is fed the same so you never know. Thanks.
 
i had a horse who was like this it was due to an injury from when he was young, he had a stake go through his side and he therefore didnt like the girth, he had to be tacked up loose in his stable very slowly, im talking could take 30mins before girth was tight enough to attempt to get on. If he was tied up he would back up rear and flip himself over. If i tried to do it too quickly in the stable he would do the same quivering and i just had to release it off again as quick as possible before he threw himself on the flloor. it could be ulcers or it could be a problem with his back/saddle that hasnt yet been spotted or it could be something from his history causing the problem like mine was. I would certainly want to look at that route aswell if possible.
 
Evergreen said:
Yes, I always give a haylage net whilst tacking up. He also has ad lib forage, though we do have another horse on the yard with ulcers and she is fed the same so you never know. Thanks.
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The horse on my yard had similar, excellent, management and he was riddled with them.

It's frightening.
 
Watching this thread with great interest as I too have a horse who is girth shy. Can put saddle on no problem but the second girth touches his side he tenses up arches his back and unless you release pressure he panics.

A dream to ride and no issues whatsoever with getting on or anything.

Once he has had saddle on he is fine - had a morning where I thought I would spend time doing saddle on saddle off to desensitise but once initial girthing is done he is absolutely fine.

Will also be good as gold one day then bad the next.

Getting to the point where I don't know where to turn next (vet saddle fitter chiro all saying is fine).

Be really interested to hear others progress.
 
I'm watching this post too with great hopes it gives me some ideas for my boy, who just like op's horse throws a fit when girthing. Back etc. fine but thinking he is using it as an excuse to further knock my confidence.

Hopefully there will be more helpfull suggestions.
 
My horse went through a stage of when i girthed him he would panic & sometimes lay down on the floor.. physio came out & he had pulled a glute, compensated for it in other areas and was very tight in his chest & ribs, physio sorted him out & he's been fine ever since. I'd also had back, saddle checked etc many times before..
 
Evergreen said:
Thanks. I had thought about ulcers. He is an ex racehorse and i know they often have them.
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sounds very much like ulcers to me. You can briefly test by feeding Rantacidine tablets (7 twice a day) (or a cup of limestone flour) and a small chaff feed immediately before you girth up. You should see a difference in 48hrs. I stress this is NOT a cure, just confirmation that it is ulcers. The only way I am aware of to treat ulcers is gastro scoping and treatment with Gastrogard.
 
Just jumped in here whilst browsing in my lunch break -
Someone once suggested my gelding may have damage between his front legs due to mounting mares at a young age (before I had him)
Just a thought.....:)
 
Thanks for all the interesting and useful feedback. I had a long conversation with my vet this morning and put all the suggestions to her. She really does not think it is ulcers as he has no other symptoms and his appetite, droppings and condition are excellent. Also he has no issues about being touched or groomed in the girth or stomach areas or flanks. She also thinks his back is too good to be kissing spines as absolutely no spasm, tightness or tenderness anywhere. She thinks it is a mental problem related to a past experience or panic reaction to being restricted as I am also unable to use side reins or any other training aid on him without the panic reaction.

However, he has other issues such as hock bone spavin (unsuccessfully treated with cortisone injections, though he is not lame so can't do nerve blocks). Also he works very close behind and sometimes steps on his hind hoof with the other. To look at him, he's a fine stamp of a horse with excellent conformation. But unfortunately he has some issues that are causing him problems, poor boy. Another mystery to solve. :(
 
I have a young horse who can have days of girthing issues related to gas in her caecum and on days when she is uncomfortable she can buck on do handstands for england but on other days butter wouldn't melt. I have used a number of different things to get to the bottom of it, management being the most important, now on soaked hay and top spec top chop lite as her base, gase-ease on bad days and Succeed daily, just started with aloe in the hope of stopping the succeed. She has had Osteopathic treatment to help release a tight diaphragm and a few other niggles which has definitely made her more comfortable. Some signs of ulcers are extemely subtle and very common in racehorses. The other thing to consider is a slight rotation of the sternum which can make horses very uncomfortable when girthed, something our osteopath finds in a number of horses that exhibit similar problems, if you're in East anglia I can highly recommend her.
 
Have a look at the Balance International website. They have a non-traditional approach to saddle fitting which is very horse friendly. Often a saddle won't cause an issue until the girth pulls the saddle down into the horse's back, and therefore the horse associates the pain with the girth and not the saddle itself. Balance saddles are very comfortable for horses, and I have seen reactions to being saddled disappear instantly when a Balance saddle is used, and have successfully rehabilitated a horse with saddle/mounting/dismounting issues using one of their saddles.
 
Evergreen said:
Thanks for all the interesting and useful feedback. I had a long conversation with my vet this morning and put all the suggestions to her. She really does not think it is ulcers as he has no other symptoms and his appetite, droppings and condition are excellent. Also he has no issues about being touched or groomed in the girth or stomach areas or flanks. She also thinks his back is too good to be kissing spines as absolutely no spasm, tightness or tenderness anywhere. She thinks it is a mental problem related to a past experience or panic reaction to being restricted as I am also unable to use side reins or any other training aid on him without the panic reaction.

However, he has other issues such as hock bone spavin (unsuccessfully treated with cortisone injections, though he is not lame so can't do nerve blocks). Also he works very close behind and sometimes steps on his hind hoof with the other. To look at him, he's a fine stamp of a horse with excellent conformation. But unfortunately he has some issues that are causing him problems, poor boy. Another mystery to solve. :(
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sounds like my WB who has sacroilliac problems - he plaits behind and at the height of his problems wouldn't be saddled or girthed at all.
 
Evergreen said:
Thanks for all the interesting and useful feedback. I had a long conversation with my vet this morning and put all the suggestions to her. She really does not think it is ulcers as he has no other symptoms and his appetite, droppings and condition are excellent. Also he has no issues about being touched or groomed in the girth or stomach areas or flanks. She also thinks his back is too good to be kissing spines as absolutely no spasm, tightness or tenderness anywhere. She thinks it is a mental problem related to a past experience or panic reaction to being restricted as I am also unable to use side reins or any other training aid on him without the panic reaction.

However, he has other issues such as hock bone spavin (unsuccessfully treated with cortisone injections, though he is not lame so can't do nerve blocks). Also he works very close behind and sometimes steps on his hind hoof with the other. To look at him, he's a fine stamp of a horse with excellent conformation. But unfortunately he has some issues that are causing him problems, poor boy. Another mystery to solve. :(
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Whereabouts are you Evergreen? I ask as there is a totally brilliant rehab vet near Newmarket who is also osteopath qualified an acupunturist also. Her partner is a behaviourist. She is holistic and advises on nutrition. Every horse that goes to her receives a full assessment and then treatment. She is inexpensive and I cannot recommend her highly enough. She is called Donna Blinman

http://www.donnablinman.co.uk/
 
the symptoms sound exactly the same as my old horse. He was always bad to girth up, you had to start with it hanging in loops and very gradually tighten it until it was OK to get on. When you mounted him you had to sit very still for a few seconds, and then let him take the first few steps very slowly, as he had a tendency to explode in an extreme bronco routine which was unrideable. Once he'd got you off he'd carry on bucking for a few more seconds, and then stop absolutely rigid with tension until youcaught him and persuaded him that everything was OK. After a lot of investigations it was found to be kissing spines.

However, I've read your previous posts about your horses spavin, which my current horse has. The girthiness may be due to back pain caused by the spavin. Chiropractic and physio can't help until you know what the problem is.
 
Hi, I have an ex racehorse who has a girthing problem. I had his back done, teeth done, saddle checked - still had a problem. Took him to vets for an endoscopy as a last resort - watched whilst they did it. He hasn't got gastric ulcers but he has scarring from ulcers (gotten most probably when he was racing) this can get inflammed for lots of reasons - bad hay, lack of turn out, stress, change in his routine. He was treated with Gastroguard and now he has NAF Thrive in his breakfast feed. We tack him up in the box - never tied up, it's more relaxed - get ready to ride ourselves then tack him up - girth him up very gradually and walk him around the yard before we tighten up a hole at a time, this works really well, had no problems since.
If it was me I would definitely have him scoped - if for no other reason than to rule it out as a reason for the behaviour - as my horse had no other obvious symptoms of ulcers either. Had the problem for two years, if I'd known about gastric ulcers at the time I could have solved the problem earlier, saved a lot of fees and had a happier horse!
Hope you solve it soon - good luck.
 
Hello,
I would suggest getting front feet xrayed to check hoof balance.
If toes are too long or broken back hoof pastern axis, then the
muscles under the neck/between forelegs can be over-used,
resulting in soreness and then perhaps a pattern of remembered/anticipated pain
Also, sub-optimal front foot balance can sometimes cause gait anomalies
behind and/or back/hock problems. It can be frustrating as the symptoms
present as "hind", but the cause is in front.

I would also scope.

Good luck -- dene
 
Evergreen said:
Thanks. I had thought about ulcers. He is an ex racehorse and i know they often have them.
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I would rule out ulcers first. You have checked everything is comfortable for him, so that would be my next step.

My mare had ulcers and wass a different horse after treatment.

The nmove to his new home and change of routine could have caused them to flare up more if he has them.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Whereabouts are you Evergreen? I ask as there is a totally brilliant rehab vet near Newmarket who is also osteopath qualified an acupunturist also. Her partner is a behaviourist. She is holistic and advises on nutrition. Every horse that goes to her receives a full assessment and then treatment. She is inexpensive and I cannot recommend her highly enough. She is called Donna Blinman

http://www.donnablinman.co.uk/
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I'm afraid I'm a good three hours from Newmarket. :(
 
It's so difficult to know where to begin! Do you have a gut feeling about what it might be? I had a horse who could be a bit nervy, occasionally flinched when being saddled (or girthed with the roller, or occasionally with rug straps) and went short and choppy for the first few strides after getting on. He would very occasionally have a very extreme reaction to the girth being done up (even slowly), and one day he went ballistic and bronced/reared/spun until he got me off. I had him checked by a physio as I had a feeling he was sore in his back and she could find nothing wrong at all. I had the vet do a full work-up with nerve blocks starting at the hoof, and she stopped at the point she found some suspensory problems (he was also about 2/10 lame on a circle). I asked for his back to be checked and she ran a biro down his spine - no reaction from him at all. Several months down the line I still knew he wasn't right and at last grew a pair and insisted on x-rays, and he was found to have kissing spines, the vertebrae had sharp hooks - no wonder he was tense about being girthed!

Hope you get to the bottom of it, it is difficult when there are so many options to consider.
 
dene said:
Hello,
I would suggest getting front feet xrayed to check hoof balance.
If toes are too long or broken back hoof pastern axis, then the
muscles under the neck/between forelegs can be over-used,
resulting in soreness and then perhaps a pattern of remembered/anticipated pain
Also, sub-optimal front foot balance can sometimes cause gait anomalies
behind and/or back/hock problems. It can be frustrating as the symptoms
present as "hind", but the cause is in front.

I would also scope.

Good luck -- dene
Click to expand...

Thanks. He has a real problem being shod and has to be continuously fed. He came to me with badly neglected feet that were splayed and long, but they are now very nice. However, he is only shod in front due to his reluctance to have his hinds picked up for long. I would have him bare foot, but he is so foot sore after trimming that I know it would only exaserbate his problems. However, one notable thing about his conformation is that he has massive pectoral muscles of the kind that you would think he goes around on his for hand. But he doesn't. He is incredibly light in front to school once he warms up except for his canter, which is all over the place at the moment.
 
Originally posted by Mildred.
It's so difficult to know where to begin! Do you have a gut feeling about what it might be? I had a horse who could be a bit nervy, occasionally flinched when being saddled (or girthed with the roller, or occasionally with rug straps) and went short and choppy for the first few strides after getting on. He would very occasionally have a very extreme reaction to the girth being done up (even slowly), and one day he went ballistic and bronced/reared/spun until he got me off. I had him checked by a physio as I had a feeling he was sore in his back and she could find nothing wrong at all. I had the vet do a full work-up with nerve blocks starting at the hoof, and she stopped at the point she found some suspensory problems (he was also about 2/10 lame on a circle). I asked for his back to be checked and she ran a biro down his spine - no reaction from him at all. Several months down the line I still knew he wasn't right and at last grew a pair and insisted on x-rays, and he was found to have kissing spines, the vertebrae had sharp hooks - no wonder he was tense about being girthed!

Hope you get to the bottom of it, it is difficult when there are so many options to consider.
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Hmm, I have to say that the only thing that would really make sense to me is kissing spines. However, just like in your horse's case, the vets, chiro and physio, all say his back is as strong as an ox. No muscle wastage, no tenderness or anything. Also, I can't quite work out why the weight of a rider doesn't affect him, but yet even a loose girth does! However, I have to admit, that he is always very tense when first being ridden at trot, with a short choppy stride, and then he warms up beautifully. Again, canter is even worse - ears pin, head comes up and he motor bikes round but then as he progresses he comes round and lovely.
 
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Mine was always ok to ride other than the one time he was intent on removing me. The only other indicator was that he was a bit nervy in traffic, and I think used to tense himself when he saw large vehicles approaching which in turn must have hurt his back, as he took off a couple of times - but those things in isolation could have been behavioural or psychological and only when he was diagnosed did his behaviour make sense.
 
Mildred said:
It's so difficult to know where to begin! Do you have a gut feeling about what it might be? I had a horse who could be a bit nervy, occasionally flinched when being saddled (or girthed with the roller, or occasionally with rug straps) and went short and choppy for the first few strides after getting on. He would very occasionally have a very extreme reaction to the girth being done up (even slowly), and one day he went ballistic and bronced/reared/spun until he got me off. I had him checked by a physio as I had a feeling he was sore in his back and she could find nothing wrong at all. I had the vet do a full work-up with nerve blocks starting at the hoof, and she stopped at the point she found some suspensory problems (he was also about 2/10 lame on a circle). I asked for his back to be checked and she ran a biro down his spine - no reaction from him at all. Several months down the line I still knew he wasn't right and at last grew a pair and insisted on x-rays, and he was found to have kissing spines, the vertebrae had sharp hooks - no wonder he was tense about being girthed!

Hope you get to the bottom of it, it is difficult when there are so many options to consider.
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There is a girth called 'the flexi girth' it can be used very loosely and doesnt need to be tight to work, google flexi girth.
 
ooh this flexi girth can i use a sheepskin cover with it??? sounds good - mine is girthy - ruled out ulcers and back - think its pectoral muscles
 
Sorry I haven't read through all the replies so it may have been mentioned already, but have you had his withers checked out at all? My daughters horse had a problem very similar to yours, it turned out to be his withers, and he had to be retired.
 
Hi just been to a 2 day Dr Kerry Ridgeway clinic. One of the sessions was on gastro-intestinal ulcers, and the use of accupunture and accupressure to relieve and resolve. They talked about some of the symptoms and it reminded me of an ex-race horse I had, really agitated when groomed or girthed. The accupresure stuff was really good and prob bits you can have a go at yourself to relieve pain. If you google Dr Kerry Ridgeway you can prob see some of his papers. Hope the pain eases, Hannah
 
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