Extremely distracted labrador

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BoggyGirl

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My lab bitch 15 months now has had a lot of training over the last few months since lockdown and is spade. She has gone from being a nightmare on the lead to being really quite nice to be out and about with. I am so pleased about this. However.. She is still horrid with other dogs on the lead and sometimes people too. She has every hair on her body up and launches. She is a big dog so his is becoming tricky now. I should add she is wagging during it. She has been away for training we have tried all sorts and spent a fortune but she just will not sit and let anything go by. With the male trainer she never looses eye contact with and does it still but to a lesser extent but I cannot recreate this at. With me she has such a short attention span I always have to correct every minute or so just to have nice heel work. I have brought the WKD online training package as a last ditch attempt at sorting this out. Off the lead she is fine but it makes walks hellish. I am on guard all the time for people and dogs. Just wondered if anyone here might suggest anything we and the trainer haven't tried?
 
More experienced people than me will be along but I would take a stab in the dark that if she is wagging it is insecurity? Not that how she feels makes a lot of difference to the victim.
Have you tried (I think CC might say this) taking her out when she is hungry and stuffing her gob with super nice treats while she sits and looks at you?
 
As sitting isn't working for you, can you keep her walking briskly forwards when there is another dog approaching? I would try to avoid busy places until you get the behaviour you want established but if you can take your dog somewhere where you could expect to meet just a few dogs, in a big enough space that you don't need to be within touching distance, you could practise keeping her moving.


ETA, your dog is just about the same age as our 2 Labs and we have found Covid has been a real nuisance as far a s training is concerned. They were too young to take to agricultural shows and the like last year and of course, since March there haven't been any similar events to take them to. Under normal circumstances, we would have taken them to as many rural events where dogs must be on a lead, as possible, in order to establish 'dog-neutrality' and other desirable behaviours. This just hasn't been possible and while ours are fairly dog-neutral, they still get over-excited, if they are taken out of their usual routine.
 
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Clodagh said:
More experienced people than me will be along but I would take a stab in the dark that if she is wagging it is insecurity? Not that how she feels makes a lot of difference to the victim.
Have you tried (I think CC might say this) taking her out when she is hungry and stuffing her gob with super nice treats while she sits and looks at you?
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This is a great idea, if you are feeding her kibble you could use some of it on her walks so you won't overfeed her. A hungry dog is likely to be more attentive. If she is sniffing something then let her do that as well. With the wagging tail I think it depends on how it's wagging. Skinnydipper once sent me a brilliant image of the different meaning on tail positions so it might give you a clue as to what's setting her off. High and pointed up is prime alert position. Could also be adolescence kicking in or a season setting her hormones off? All these are amateur guesses on my part other people can help a lot more.

If you are tensing up she'll pick up on that as well. Its hard to control your body language but if you act like it's no big deal then she might as well.
 
Tail wagging can also mean high arousal. I know with one of mine, a certain type of wag means 'Imma gonna bite you'.

I wouldn't feed her at all for a day, maybe two (she is a labrador, her head will not fall off, I promise) and then only feed her on walks or in training for the foreseeable (and I mean her actual food/kibble, not treats, my dogs get no treats at all on top of their normal food, which I use for training/shaping) and you will soon see a difference.
No work, no pay.
Don't stop and sit, keep walking, you don't let a horse plant and stare at things, you kick on and go past it, stopping just creates more tension/a Mexican standoff, the thing gets closer and closer and then your dog explodes with frustration, and the fact that you are already wary will be telegraphing more stress down the lead to her.
I let my grumpy dog carry a ball all the time and just keep walking, even if another dog is gobbing off at him.
Also, what's your collar and lead combo?

Running out for lunch shortly, pardon my brevity.
 
Those are some great tips thank you. Today I have deliberately managed to avoid all dogs on a really long walk which was so much better. Thank goodness the weather is rubbish now so people aren't bothering so much. It has been terrible lots of people dogs off leads letting them too close to me which doesn't set up for success. She came back from the last training yesterday and she is much better with people. We live on an estate currently being built which made the issue worse as its so busy but today we have managed to pass people without lunging which is great. The heel work has been really good today. I am not complacent but if we are down to just going for dogs that is better. We are meeting lots of people hoping to get her used to lots of different people being nice and hope that helps things.
I will definitely try her hungry she isn't food orientated at all so that should help focus a lot. She is much keener on whatever she wants right now than treats however high value so that should shift the balance. She has tried to bite next doors dog when we tried the sitting idea. She suddenly lunged no one was hurt but before that I had thought it was for show. I think it is anxiety which would explain why with the trainer she doesn't do it so badly I guess. I am nervous I try so hard not to be but I do find myself looking ahead for potential triggers wherever we go.
Same here we would have been everywhere but didn't because of COVID.
She likes carrying sticks which does help I might get her a ball that is a really good idea. Currently she is on a rope slip lead.
Thanks all feeling much less of a huge thing now. The trainer has suggested getting her eyes tested too as she is so clumsy it is unbelievable.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Tail wagging can also mean high arousal. I know with one of mine, a certain type of wag means 'Imma gonna bite you'.
.
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Forehead slap moment for me - when ours wind 'game' (pheasants) out on a walk their tails wag, even if they arent working you can go from 0 -60 full on helicoptor circling, so that makes sense. Not the same as I'm stressed so placatory wag at all.

But, I am not intending to nit pick (while setting off to do so) I learn so much from you and your posts really make me think and understand BUT you do feed chicken at the vets.:p. There's always one!
 
Lol I forgot about that. In my defence she'd had a dicky tummy so I was feeding cooked chicken anyway!! And I always start with kibble and go to something higher value for trickier work. If you start feeding high value stuff like cheese and hotdogs for very basic work then you are screwed if you have a problem as there's nowhere to go and you lessen the value of the normal food. So start with gruel and then use caviar if you have a big problem.
 
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I wouldn't encourage her to talk to people on your walks either tbh, I know you want her to be a friendly dog but she is more likely to be friendly if she is confident. Encourage her to just keep on walking when you are out with her, encourage her to be friendly with people that you have invited into her home, that she can get to know slowly at her own pace.
We have found that a fig-8 lead around the nose helps with a pulling Rottweiler.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I wouldn't encourage her to talk to people on your walks either tbh, I know you want her to be a friendly dog but she is more likely to be friendly if she is confident. Encourage her to just keep on walking when you are out with her, encourage her to be friendly with people that you have invited into her home, that she can get to know slowly at her own pace.
We have found that a fig-8 lead around the nose helps with a pulling Rottweiler.
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I didn't think of that good point. We tried that she dived on the floor and split her face open in seconds. I think she panicked.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I wouldn't encourage her to talk to people on your walks either tbh, I know you want her to be a friendly dog but she is more likely to be friendly if she is confident. Encourage her to just keep on walking when you are out with her, encourage her to be friendly with people that you have invited into her home, that she can get to know slowly at her own pace.
We have found that a fig-8 lead around the nose helps with a pulling Rottweiler.
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This. Socialisation is about ignoring other people and dogs, not interacting with them. For a dog like this I would be looking for a collar and leash combo or use the slip line in such a way where it applies pressure and release, so there is a distinction between just leaning and straining into the contact, which creates even more stress, think about it as on/off the same way as we would use reins and a bit.
With a slip lead if she is being bold I would have her shoulder at my knee with the line quite high up behind the ears and go UP then off again, UP then off again rather than letting her pull forwards with constant pressure and she never learns the difference.

If she is more toy orientated than food orientated, with my grumpy one, when we saw another dog I produced a ball on a rope and we had a game. So eventually he saw another dog and looked to me for a game, so he made a positive link. Now he is retired (when they are in training/work, access to balls and toys is like food is through me/the work/for attention etc) I just let him carry it.

If I may, and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm trying to be motivational ;) you sound like a helpless bystander in all of this. Yes, it might be anxiety on her part and yes, you are probably feeding it, but it might also be that she is a bit up herself and being bolshy and is taking control of the situation - either way, this is actually your job.
The reason she probably works well for the trainer is that he projects confidence and adopts a leadership role.
Try and be that person, you are in control of all interactions, other dogs are nothing to worry about or take under her notice because you are the one who handles things. Walk on, keep moving, stop being a knob, pay attention to me etc etc. You can also put yourself between her and the other dog, so that you are effectively shielding her.
At the moment she sees a dog, acts in the way that she does, and the other dog disappears, can you see why she thinks that this tactic is working for her? You need to have more input into these interactions.
 
CorvusCorax said:
This. Socialisation is about ignoring other people and dogs, not interacting with them. For a dog like this I would be looking for a collar and leash combo or use the slip line in such a way where it applies pressure and release, so there is a distinction between just leaning and straining into the contact, which creates even more stress, think about it as on/off the same way as we would use reins and a bit.
With a slip lead if she is being bold I would have her shoulder at my knee with the line quite high up behind the ears and go UP then off again, UP then off again rather than letting her pull forwards with constant pressure and she never learns the difference.

If she is more toy orientated than food orientated, with my grumpy one, when we saw another dog I produced a ball on a rope and we had a game. So eventually he saw another dog and looked to me for a game, so he made a positive link. Now he is retired (when they are in training/work, access to balls and toys is like food is through me/the work/for attention etc) I just let him carry it.

If I may, and please don't take this the wrong way, I'm trying to be motivational ;) you sound like a helpless bystander in all of this. Yes, it might be anxiety on her part and yes, you are probably feeding it, but it might also be that she is a bit up herself and being bolshy and is taking control of the situation - either way, this is actually your job.
The reason she probably works well for the trainer is that he projects confidence and adopts a leadership role.
Try and be that person, you are in control of all interactions, other dogs are nothing to worry about or take under her notice because you are the one who handles things. Walk on, keep moving, stop being a knob, pay attention to me etc etc. You can also put yourself between her and the other dog, so that you are effectively shielding her.
At the moment she sees a dog, acts in the way that she does, and the other dog disappears, can you see why she thinks that this tactic is working for her? You need to have more input into these interactions.
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That made me laugh but its so true. I have tried endlessly to make her sit as that is what we were told. That is exactly what I would do if she were a baby horse. I feel lost with dog training but you have just pointed out the blindingly obvious thank you! She does constantly try to assert herself with my dogs too. I have been putting the lead higher which does help. She is very slight in terms of weight but really strong and the whole sitting thing is a total disaster we will focus on moving. Yes he is very quiet and calm but her body language with him is 1000% focus with me maybe 60% after being checked if I am honest.
 
My dog isn’t as bad as yours, but he’s been attacked a few times and now goes to defend first if dogs get too close, which is a massive shame as he has always been a very social dog. I’ve realised it’s up to me to manage the situations that I put him in. I’m becoming much better at advocating for my dog. I’m friendly but not afraid to call out to other dog owners and say ‘please can you call your dog away/put it on a lead’. I’m more thoughtful about my positioning when dogs are around, trying to make sure I am between them and him. I try not to walk places where there are likely to be lots off off lead dogs, certainly if there are no escape routes or space to keep our distance. Like CC, all of his food is used whilst out walking or training. He isn’t massively foodie so I keep a few high value bits on me as well as kibble, so that I am prepared for any high pressure situation. He’s a collie and his default is to stop and drop, and to give strong eye contact, sometimes that’s hard to break so the high value helps here if we get stuck. I’m also trying to run with him a bit more than walk, so he has less pent up energy and has more of a job to do, so trying to teach ‘on by’ whilst running so he learns that this is not a time to think about interacting. (This depends on the situation as I wouldn’t run past some dogs).
 
BoggyGirl said:
My lab bitch 15 months now has had a lot of training over the last few months since lockdown and is spade. She has gone from being a nightmare on the lead to being really quite nice to be out and about with. I am so pleased about this. However.. She is still horrid with other dogs on the lead and sometimes people too. She has every hair on her body up and launches. She is a big dog so his is becoming tricky now. I should add she is wagging during it. She has been away for training we have tried all sorts and spent a fortune but she just will not sit and let anything go by. With the male trainer she never looses eye contact with and does it still but to a lesser extent but I cannot recreate this at. With me she has such a short attention span I always have to correct every minute or so just to have nice heel work. I have brought the WKD online training package as a last ditch attempt at sorting this out. Off the lead she is fine but it makes walks hellish. I am on guard all the time for people and dogs. Just wondered if anyone here might suggest anything we and the trainer haven't tried?
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When you say "away for training" do you mean board and train?

What methods did the trainer use. Force free or corrections?.

When you say you correct the dog, what do you mean, what do you do?

Your dog could have learnt that seeing another dog results in her being punished and you really don't want that. Seeing another dog should mean good things are going to happen.

Does she need to walk to heel? Why not take a more relaxed approach and go for loose leash walking?

Try not to meet dogs head on when she is on her lead, walk in a curve, cross the road. If dogs were free to choose then they would approach in a curve.

I would suggest looking for a force free trainer who can help both you and your dog, one who understands fear periods. There are some links in the post below.

skinnydipper said:
Listen to your vet and do not castrate.

At 16 months he could still be in his second fear period.

I hope these 2 links will be helpful. The second link gives advice on the best ways to help him.

https://www.canisbonus.com/2018/06/08/newsflash-dogs-have-two-fear-periods/

https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Dog-Behavior-Understanding-Fear-Periods-in-Dogs
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ETA. I would ditch the slip lead, choking her won't help. Is there an IMDT trainer/behaviourist in your area?
 
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