Extremely good doers

[MyLuckyStar]

Help please!!

I've had Blossom since last August and she has always been a bit of a fattie but wasn't in work so understandable, now through winter I thought she may loose some weight like the rest of them do but no she's come out of winter looking like this:

Now over winter she was fed one feed a day of 2 scoops of fast fibre, half a scoop of healthy hooves and a scoop of pony nuts (as suggested by the nutritionist we use). They had hay but only when it was snowing, and she lives out 24/7. I did put her in a standard neck hw when it snowed as she's not a typical hardy welsh, some may think I'm cruel but she's now in a lw turnout but is holding her heat very well (I did put her in a mw in between).

From Saturday I'm going to start working her gently to try and get some of the weight off, she hasn't had a saddle previously but now I have a treeless I can borrow although I thought about lunging, long reining etc to get a bit of weight off before riding her.

She's never had laminitis that I know of but I did muzzle her through the end of Summer/Autumn till about October/early november time. Do you think it'd be harsh to start muzzling her now?

She will have to continue having a small feed until the others stop as they are all fed up at the field on a night time (ours are out together in two large fields) and I don't think it fair that the others get fed whilst she's standing around - I've cut her down to a handful of healthy hooves, half a scoop of fast fibre and a scoop of pony nuts - should I cut it down more?

We don't have the option to spilt the fields in to smaller paddocks either as she doesn't like been left on her own and as I said it's our 6 together. We did try sectioning her off when I first had her to introduce her to the herd slowly but she jumped the fencing and introducted herself!!

 

[Sprig]

I would stop feeding altogether. She will get used to the idea that she does not get a bucket feed. You could always put a handful of hay in a bucket to keep her busy while the others are eating. See how she goes on that and then muzzle if required. Mine had his muzzle on until end Nov 24/7. Much kinder than getting laminitis.

 

[be positive]

What was the nutritionist thinking of, that amount of feed would be enough for a horse that is working hard to gain weight. I would cut out the cubes completely give her just some fast fibre and a supplement if you feel the need or the 1/2 healthy hooves, it should help to get some weight off or at least stop her gaining any more.

 

[MyLuckyStar]

Thanks all, will cut the majority of the feed out and just give her a bit of chaff for her vitamins plus a few veggies

 

[w1bbler]

Definately cut down the feed, my welsh hacks out 3 x 2-3 hours per week + 1 lesson, she's fed a mug of balancer with handful of chaff, out 24/7, with small amount of hay & weight is about right, would not want her fed any more.
Your nutrisionist wants shooting.

 

[tiga71]

TBH I wouldn't even give her a few veggies.

My horse only gets 1 scoop of Pure working a day and he is in full work, 6 days a week! Jumping, long hacks, schooling and fast work.

Definitely sack your nutritionist.

 

[MyLuckyStar]

We are changing our nutritionist to a Spillers nutritionist as she previously suggested fast fibre for a very poor doer who needed quite a bit of weight on but I was told by someone else it was more for good doers.

I changed him over to Alpha beet and pink powder senior and he's doing really well, his weight is coming on nicely.

 

[stimpy]

Yikes! I have very good doers and my lot probably don't get in a month what your horse was getting in a daily bucket! What an odd recommendation from a nutritionist.

I set myself a target to get at least 30kg off two of my horses (13:1 and 14:1 geldings) this winter and I'm pleased to say that I've managed it. They are out during the day grazing on what is now a pretty sparse field and they get meticulously weighed overnight hay. However, I think the biggest factor has been that this year I have only rugged them lightly. They are both incredibly hairy (Icelandic) but are both partially clipped and for most of the winter I have had them mostly in lightweight rain sheets. (I have to rug as during the week I only have time to ride or groom not both...) They did get additional 100g under rugs on the days when it never got above zero and they have stayed warm enough, their skin has always felt warm even if their ears were cool.

I didn't realise until this year how much over-rugging affects calorie burning, only rugging as necessary is a jolly good (and easy!) way to get fatties under control ready for spring.

 

[Jericho]

Ditto what others have said about cutting feed right down to just a handful of chaff with vitamins in. I also read cinnamon is good for good doers?? Ultimately it will be exercise that gets it down, it's the only thing that works for my mare. She had adlib hay during the snow because the others needed it and I couldn't bring her in and she ballooned - I just don't think she has a 'I am full' switch!!!

Now she is in during the day on one stubbs scoop of pure feed fibre balance split between two feeds and a section of soaked hay in a trickle net in attempt to slim her off before grass starts coming through.

Having a good doer is nearly as bad as a bad doer - my mare is expert at "I am being starved' look and I feel perpetually guilty!

 

[MillionDollar]

Personally I wouldn't rug her at all, that will shift some weight. The grass hardly has any value at the moment so I wouldn't muzzle, just cut her feed back to a handful of chaff with vitamin supplement.

 

[marmalade76]

I have two similar (though not quite as round). They get a little sugar beet and a handful of chaff each day and that's it! They've only had hay when it's been frosty or snowy and neither are rugged. They are out on 6 acres of steep bank so they get a bit of exercise.

As others have said, cut out all feed bar a couple of handfuls of chaff (Hifi light/Good Doer/Molasses-Free) and a supplement and take the rugs off!

 

[Kallibear]

Gods, no wonder she's so fat on that amount of feed! Nutritionalist should be shot! My pony would think he's died and gone to pony heaven with even half a scoop of nuts.

She needs a handful of non-mollassed chaff to have her supplements in, as little hay as you can get away with and a no fill rug to keep her dry but not warm. And as much exercise as you can manage. I would start muzzleing once the grass starts to grow properly.

She's really really fat still and you're going to struggle to get the weight off this year now.

 

[MyLuckyStar]

Thanks all

I've cut her feed down to a flat scoop (the very small ones - we don't use the stubbs scoops) of healthy hooves as it has all the vitamins/minerals in it.

She is also in a lightweight (no fill) rain sheet but only because she's a complete wimp when its cold/wet. It's supposed to be minus 8 Sunday night so as soon as the temps go up slightly then she will be out without a rug on.

I've got one mare on box rest and another pony in every night/out during the day so once my mares back out I'll bring Blossom in and keep her on soaked hay. I was going to ask someone to bring her in during the day for me but she's a nightmare to catch if she doesn't know you

 

[YorksG]

I would get rid of the chaff you are using, give plain oat straw chaff with whatever vits and mins she NEEDS, I would also remember that nutritionists employed by the feed merchants tend to be selling the food their employers are making! Too many calories = fat=danger for horses

 

[MyLuckyStar]

I would get rid of the chaff you are using, give plain oat straw chaff with whatever vits and mins she NEEDS, I would also remember that nutritionists employed by the feed merchants tend to be selling the food their employers are making! Too many calories = fat=danger for horses

I do have a bale of oat straw chaff so could change her to that gradually then, she doesn't get any additional vitamins/minerals

 

[stimpy]

I've cut her feed down to a flat scoop (the very small ones - we don't use the stubbs scoops) of healthy hooves as it has all the vitamins/minerals in it.

She'll still need extra vita and mins as Healthy Hooves will be balanced but only when fed at the recommended rate which will be way beyond what you are now feeding.

 

[YasandCrystal]

My mare is about that weight. She is ridden at least 5 times a week for over an hour of medium work. She gets a balancer and 3 handfuls of Happy Tummy twice daily and haylage. She has to have haylage as hay affects her breathing. We have virtually no grass.

It is so hard with good doers. I feed the balancer because if you read any of the Feed manufacturers recommendations - the amount they suggest for a balanced diet is colossal! I feed my WB Pure Feeds, but nowhere near the recommended 4 scoops a day for his size.

 

[YasandCrystal]

She'll still need extra vita and mins as Healthy Hooves will be balanced but only when fed at the recommended rate which will be way beyond what you are now feeding.

^^ Exactly and that sadly is the con with any of these feeds that report to be 'complete'.

 

[MyLuckyStar]

She'll still need extra vita and mins as Healthy Hooves will be balanced but only when fed at the recommended rate which will be way beyond what you are now feeding.

I'll get her a supplement the weekend, I was thinking the Dengie multi vitamins as I've used that before and the horses seem to like/eat them. Does anyone have any other reccys?

 

[stimpy]

I'll get her a supplement the weekend, I was thinking the Dengie multi vitamins as I've used that before and the horses seem to like/eat them. Does anyone have any other reccys?

I have used Feedmark's benevit in the past and the horses have been happy with it but I now use probalance (bought on ebay) which is a high spec but only includes the vits and minerals usually missing from UK grazing.

 

[chestnut cob]

My god, why on earth did the nutritionist suggest you feed all of that?! Presumably it was a nutritionist from the company whose feeds you are using?

I've pretty much always had good doers and I wouldn't feed that amount in a month, never mind a day! I know people with competition horses who eat less. In fact I used to keep my horse on a racing yard and the race horses ate less than that...

My horse (Connie X, probably X with a cob I'd guess) is an average doer, as in as soon as he's out of work he gets fat quickly but stays at a nice weight when worked. He is stabled overnight with 3-4 slices of hay, which he gets at about 5.30pm. He's turned out from 8.30am, with a bit of hay when it was snowing but nothing now. He gets one small handful of chaff for "tea" daily - currently Happy Hoof but I much prefer Safe & Sound. If he's lucky he might get a bit of a carrot too! He's a pony and I figure that given he has a bright eye, is full of beans, has a lovely glossy coat and fantastic feet, he's getting all of the vits/mins he needs. I certainly wouldn't be giving buckets of hard feed so he gets more. Ponies and cob types are designed to live on fresh air. Mine is worked every day pretty much - hacking (v hilly by us so it's "proper" work), schooling, lunging and the odd day's hunting. He's fit, well and doing all of that on a handful of chaff and hay.

In your case I'd cut out all of the hard feed, or if you must give something then a tiny handful of low cal chaff (I like Safe & Sound, best one of that type by a mile IMHO). I probably wouldn't even feed hay TBH and I would rug her either. Are you working her now?

 

[apple88]

I have a good doer, she is in at night so gets two feeds of 1 stubbs scoop hi fi and a mug full (dry) of fast fibre and then vits on top.
I changed last year to add the fast fibre in and iv noticed my mare seems to put weight on with it if i feed even half a scoop of it.
Did you ask what experience or qualifications the nutritionist has???
Also discovered d&H equimins, they are like biscuits so that when mine is out on restricted grazing, i can just feed those alone for her vits and no chaff.

 

[MyLuckyStar]

Thanks.

We don't use the stubbs scoops, we use the very small scoops. I'll completely cut out the fast fibre and stick her on oat straw chaff (introduced slowly of course) and start her exercise regime. It will only be weekends at the moment due to working full time

 

[SO1]

I don't know how big your horse is but that seems like a lot of bucket food, did the nutritionist actually see your horse or was this just a phone conversation?

For comparision my pony who is 13.3 and a very good doer gets one cup full of fast fibre twice a day, he also has hay and grass.

 

[wench]

I would just give a lo-cal balancer and leave it at that.

 

[maginn]

I would cut bucket out alltogether & just feed equibites which will provide all the vits /minerals she will need, without additional calories. You can feed them in a bucket if the others are getting a bucket feed & you don't want her to feel left out. You really need to start to get some weight off her now, because it will not be long before the spring grass starts coming through & then you really could have major problems with laminitis. Agree with other posters re whip her rugs off & exercise as much as you can. Cruel to be kind

 

[MyLuckyStar]

I would cut bucket out alltogether & just feed equibites which will provide all the vits /minerals she will need, without additional calories. You can feed them in a bucket if the others are getting a bucket feed & you don't want her to feel left out. You really need to start to get some weight off her now, because it will not be long before the spring grass starts coming through & then you really could have major problems with laminitis. Agree with other posters re whip her rugs off & exercise as much as you can. Cruel to be kind

She's only in a lightweight just to keep the rain off her as she dithers in the field if it rains a lot.


I am going to start exercising her from the weekend (I work full time and they are kept on a farm so we don't have a menage), she would've been ridden weekly but I've had no saddle for her until now.

 

[chestnut cob]

She's only in a lightweight just to keep the rain off her as she dithers in the field if it rains a lot.


I am going to start exercising her from the weekend (I work full time and they are kept on a farm so we don't have a menage), she would've been ridden weekly but I've had no saddle for her until now.

Regarding the saddle - bear in mind that once she loses weight you'll need to have it refitted (and might even find it isn't suitable at all) as she'll change shape a fair bit.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

If you struggle to get her from sifting out and leaving the bit and min supplement then use a tiny bit of fast fibre to make a soup then add handful of unmolassed chaff and the supp. All are low sugar and lo cal. We are in Cairngorms and that's all my haffie gets plus soaked hay and oat straw. Never rugged tho in at night- even in minus 15!still slightly plump til work starts when snow melts...

 

[mynutmeg]

Help please!!
Now over winter she was fed one feed a day of 2 scoops of fast fibre, half a scoop of healthy hooves and a scoop of pony nuts (as suggested by the nutritionist we use). They had hay but only when it was snowing, and she lives out 24/7. I did put her in a standard neck hw when it snowed as she's not a typical hardy welsh, some may think I'm cruel but she's now in a lw turnout but is holding her heat very well (I did put her in a mw in between).

This is way too much feed for a fatty - I'm supprised she isn't fatter.
Personally I would drop the fast fibre and pony nuts completely. Keep a chaff of some sort, definately unmollased and add in either a general vitamin and mineral supplement or a balancer designed for good doers (Top Spec do a good one). Both these options will provide everything she needs without the extra calories. If she has a full coat then a light rug is fine - so long as she isn't actually cold then keeping herself warm will help with the weight lose.
I wouldn't muzzle yet because there isn't much goodness in the grass and she needs the fibre going through her gut.