Facebook STOP the sale of horse meat for human consumption in WA!

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concernedaussie

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Please help, all horse lovers in UK.

New Legislation in Western Australia, effective July 1st 2010

Western Australia is allowing horses to be slaughtered using the Penetrating Capitive Bolt for human consumption, so Vince Gareffa of Mono di Carne can feed horsemeat to Australians on Bastille Day.

We need help with this situation which allowed 3 healthy 3 year old thoroughbreds to be killed last Friday using this method. The horse can still be conscious while slaughtered by this method which is used on cattle.

Horses necks are longer of course and the bolt does not penetrate efficiently to kill and the horse is slaughtered alive. This is banned in USA

Please read facebook STOP the sale of horse meat for human consumption in WA!

Please help if you can. Thank you
 
concernedaussie,

whilst you are entitled to your views regarding the ethics of horses being slaughtered for human consumption, I would suggest that your emotive claims, many of which are totally incorrect, in their entirety, are doing little to promote your cause.

Accepting that the slaughter-man is experienced and competent, then a captive bolt pistol renders the subject unconscious, and before it falls to the ground. Correctly administered, no animal will ever regain any sense of awareness. If animals are to be used for human consumption, then the heart needs to still be working, whilst they are bled out.

The length of a horses neck has absolutely nothing to do with the effectiveness of slaughter.

The banning of the horse slaughter trade in the USA is more to do with the way that they are handled, contained and generally dealt with whilst the are still living. Whether a free bullet, or a captive bolt are used, is immaterial to the horse. The suffering is far more likely to occur in the transport and handling of horses.

The world, or so it seems to me, is filled with unwanted and miserable horses. Tell me, how would you propose that these poor creatures are to be dealt with? More sanctuaries? Not for me, I'm afraid.

Alec.
 
The information I refered to was sourced from Dr Lester Freilander DVM and former USDA Inspector.

www.mainsandtailsorganization.org

Report

USE OF PENETRATING CAPTIVE BOLT AS A MEANS OF RENDERING EQUINES INSENSIBLE FOR SLAUGHTER VIOLATES THE HUMANE SLAUGHTER ACT OF 1958

Where he refers to the fact the horses are aware of being slaughtered while still alive. Due to the PCB being developed for bovines and not equines.

Anyway, didn't mean to upset anyone.
My solution to the problem would be to restrict unregulated breeding hear in WA.
 
concernedaussie said:
Please help, all horse lovers in UK.

New Legislation in Western Australia, effective July 1st 2010

Western Australia is allowing horses to be slaughtered using the Penetrating Capitive Bolt for human consumption, so Vince Gareffa of Mono di Carne can feed horsemeat to Australians on Bastille Day.

We need help with this situation which allowed 3 healthy 3 year old thoroughbreds to be killed last Friday using this method. The horse can still be conscious while slaughtered by this method which is used on cattle.

Horses necks are longer of course and the bolt does not penetrate efficiently to kill and the horse is slaughtered alive. This is banned in USA

Please read facebook STOP the sale of horse meat for human consumption in WA!

Please help if you can. Thank you
Click to expand...

Please provide a link and I'll sign the petition or whatever it is that is on Facebook. Eating horses and killing them in such a way insults every fibre of my being. I always thought better of Australia, especially when the RSPCA took ITV to court over the killing of a rat. There is no need to celebrate Bastille day in such a manner anyway. Surely a glass of French wine and a selection of French cheeses would be sufficient enough. That would satisfy me.
 
Thank you

The petition is at Stop the sale of horse meat for consumption in Western Australia/Change.org

So best to link into www.Change.org for the petition I believe.

The other concerns are the horses the gentleman claims he intends to sell for human consumption came from the knackery (like Jamie Greys). The horses were thoroughbreds and were bred for the track, so probably had been administered with bute or other carcinogens and toxins dangerous to humans. So the whole story has taken on a human health issue.
 
Over2You ,and all of you..if you think Oz is like us in animal welfare..just google " Mulesing in Sheep".If you dare that is.Then of course there are the gi-normous Sheep-Ships,that sale with many tiers high of sheep straight off the outback on their way to ritual slaughter in Arab countries.Those that die on the journey are simply slung overboard to the sharks that follow the sheepships. Oz has a totally different outlook on animal welfare and rights..it`s a tough country with a tough outlook on life.
 
aus,

you certainly haven't upset anyone, well not me anyway! I have viewed your "mainsandtails' thingy, but can't find any reference to a Dr. Freilander, or his report. I would very much like to read it. Could you either post it on here, or let me have it by PM?

Many thanks.

Alec.
 
With respect........why on earth should people in WA be told they cannot eat horsemeat? If there is a market for it, it means there are customers. It's not something I would consciously choose to eat, but I also don't choose to eat offal. I wouldn't dream of telling offal-lovers they mustn't eat it! As far as I am concerned, the issue is not the consumption of the horsemeat, more the humane and efficient slaughter of the animal (any breed, bovine/equine whatever). My limited understanding is that since horse slaughter has been banned in the USA, animals are now enduring horrific journeys south to Mexico, and north to Canada, where it is still legal. This would appear to condemn American horses to far more abuse/stress than if they had been slaughtered on US soil, and therefore rather defeating the object of the ban, which I presume was on grounds of horse welfare? I have no objection to people choosing to eat any meat of their choice, as long as it it transported on the hook, not the hoof. With modern transport and refrigeration there is no need for anything else. IMHO.
 
Over2You,

your abilities with a computer are obviously better than mine! I accept that the slaughter of horses is a highly emotive subject, and whether this is the right place for such a discussion is for others to decide.

I have never heard of Freilander, with, or without his doctorate. His report is wrong, biased and misleading. Electroencephalography (EEG) and Electrocardiography (ECG), have both been disproved as a method of testing the state of awareness in a living creature. I would be interested to hear who it was who funded his research.

The facts are fairly simple, and to deal with the CB pistol, first. Once a rod of app 3/8" diameter is driven into the brain, then conscious life is extinct. To suggest that a horse is conscious whilst it is being butchered is ridiculous. The handling of such an animal would be extremely dangerous for the operator. Whilst you may be surprised by this, I would assure you that every competent slaughter-man who I've ever met, has taken a real pride in his work, and has abided by "The slaughter-mans creed". Look it up on google. Those who I have met within the UK, who do this work, take on a degree of humane responsibility which would probably surprise you.

The skull of an equine is actually very thin, and not as the researcher has suggested, thicker than that of a bovine. The .22 RF is an entirely suitable tool with which to euthanase an equine, and those who would argue otherwise, are speaking from a viewpoint of complete ignorance.

Cattle are held in what is known as a shooting box, whilst they are shot. Horses are stood in what is euphemistically called a "hall". It is, in reality a room. They are led in individually, dealt with, the room is washed down, and the next is brought in. To attempt to shoot a panicking horse would be two things, inhumane and extremely dangerous for the operator, and that's something which no competent slaughter-man would countenance.

I'm not too sure whether i've explained myself properly, I've tried, but what i will assure you of is this: Freidlander is arguing from a point of ignorance. Trust me on this one, his whole argument is riddled with a degree of inaccuracy, which he will find embarrassing, when he actually gains a degree of experience.

Freidlander may well have a doctorate, but his report was rubbish, nothing more or less.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Alec.
 
Over2You said:
Please provide a link and I'll sign the petition or whatever it is that is on Facebook. Eating horses and killing them in such a way insults every fibre of my being. I always thought better of Australia, especially when the RSPCA took ITV to court over the killing of a rat. There is no need to celebrate Bastille day in such a manner anyway. Surely a glass of French wine and a selection of French cheeses would be sufficient enough. That would satisfy me.
Click to expand...

I am sorry if this causes any offence,but I can't understand why eatign horses is any different to eating any other animal.
It might not be "nice" to those of us who consider them pets and sporting partners,but in other parts of the world they are also a food source and as long as they are killed as humanely as possable I have no issue with it.
 
Alec (and every other pro-slaughter member here),

Just what possesses you to be on a forum which is meant for people with a love of horses. If your horse (if you have one) were to need a way out of life, then would you be perfectly happy with him/her going to the slaughterhouse?

Also, just how do we know for 100% fact that an animal doesn't feel pain as it is being slaughtered? Has anyone asked them or is it just something we humans say to make us feel better about being meat-eaters?

Nobody can say what it is like to die since it something that can NOT be gaged in any manner!
 
The bolt has been used for many years.As far as we can tell it does the job well and is still the method of choice for many owners having their beloved friends PTS.

Is your issue with the method or the consumption of horse meat?
 
Yes the people on this forum love horses, and would never wish to see one suffer.

A humane death is NOT the worst thing that can happen to a horse. Suffering during it's lifetime is so very much worse

If an animal is killed then does it really matter what happens to it, if it is buried, cremated, eaten...?

I would rather see a healthy horse killed for human consumption than join the ranks of neglected or abused horses in the world.

Do you have a similar problem with cows or other livestock being slaughtered using similar methods, and subsequently eaten?
 
Sorry, I won't be signing. There's no difference between eating a horse and eating a cow. I couldn't eat one I'd looked after, but I'd happily eat horse.

I've also seen three slaughtered with a captive bolt, two of them my own, and the horse was completely unconscious immediately and there is no way at all that they knew anything about what happened after the bolt punched a hole in their head. It's a routine way of slaughtering horses at abattoirs in the UK and no-one has higher welfare standards than we do in this country.
 
anima said:
I am sorry if this causes any offence,but I can't understand why eatign horses is any different to eating any other animal.
It might not be "nice" to those of us who consider them pets and sporting partners,but in other parts of the world they are also a food source and as long as they are killed as humanely as possable I have no issue with it.
Click to expand...

My thought to. I dont think that we would care so much if we had been doing it for thousands of years along side riding them. Horses were originally prey before we decided to ride them.
I like cows, But I still eat them. I hate sheep.......that is why I eat them.
 
Over2You said:
Alec (and every other pro-slaughter member here),

If your horse (if you have one) were to need a way out of life, then would you be perfectly happy with him/her going to the slaughterhouse?
Click to expand...

No, if I was having a horse slaughtered it would be old or injured and in that case I would not put it through the journey. I would, as I have and will do again, get them shot at home in surroundings where they were once healthy and happy. Once they are dead I couldn't care less if I buy part of their carcass in my next tin of cat food and my cats eat it.

You probably think you are being more humane if you plan to have your horse injected, but as many people who have been through a general anaesthetic can tell you, the feeling of loss of control as the drug takes over can be extremely frightening to a human who knows what is happening. I wouldn't put a horse through it when a gun, with a free bullet or a captive bolt, is instant.

The slaughtermen who I have dealt with have been complete experts who pride themselves in a clean quick kill. My last horse went blind at 4 and he often panicked so badly he fell to his knees. He began to panic as I went to hand him over, the slaughterman sensed it immediately, and I found myself flat on the grass as the gunman pushed me quickly out of the way so as to shoot him before he could realise what was happening.

I'd like someone to finish me off as easily when my time comes!
 
Completely with cptrayes. Two of mine were destroyed by captive bolt and both were unconscious and dead within seconds. (They were both ill and no recovery possible).I too would eat horse meat, just not my own.
Once an animal is dead, it is dead, be it horse, goat, cow etc.
 
Sorry - i hate the thought of a magical horse being slaughtered by captive bolt full stop BUT i would rather them go by captive bolt than have the cowdly route of the USA where they transport the poor animals thousands of miles to have their spinal cords severed.

NOW THAT IS SOMETHING TOO PROTEST AGAINST - BARBARIC METHOD !
 
Over2You said:
Alec (and every other pro-slaughter member here),

Just what possesses you to be on a forum which is meant for people with a love of horses. If your horse (if you have one) were to need a way out of life, then would you be perfectly happy with him/her going to the slaughterhouse?

Also, just how do we know for 100% fact that an animal doesn't feel pain as it is being slaughtered? Has anyone asked them or is it just something we humans say to make us feel better about being meat-eaters?

Nobody can say what it is like to die since it something that can NOT be gaged in any manner!
Click to expand...

Comments like this infuriate me.

Alec's responses have been accurate, well constructed and not in the slightest bit argumentative or degrading.

Just because people have pointed out facts and figures (all very well grounded having done my research) does not mean that they do not love or care for horses.

I won't be signing the petition as I'd feel like a total hypocrite. I eat meat, full stop.

I choose NOT to eat horse meat, but I do not judge nor chastise anyone who DOES choose to. It is not my place to tell them what is right or wrong.

None of us want to see any horse suffer, ever. Which is why I support the WHW campaign to stop the live transport of horses in such horrible conditions. What happens to them at the other end of that journey is not where the suffering starts, it is where it ends.
 
They want to legalise (or have done?) the consumption of horse meat for just one day of celebration?

Thats madness surely?! That kind of slaughter is surely something most australians would be appalled at if it was an ethnic minority that wanted to slaughter say dogs to celebrate one of their days (purely hypothetical - I'm not suggesting any minority wants to slaughter dogs!).

I think eating horse is wrong, yes I know meat is meat (well, it might to to the carnivores amongst us) but the difference is the relationship horses have with man, and the debt man owes them.

In my mind australians should be eating kangaroo and camel, and any other padded foot animal as sheep, cows and cloven hooved animals have and continue to destroy the land and create huge barren areas of dust. Just imho :)

(although I'm well aware that kangaroo is mainly seen as dog food in WA)
 
I couldn't find the link either but I did read about this research a couple of years ago and stopped using that method as a result.
At least with an injection they are well out of it before the fatal does gets administered, but of course if for human consumption that method can't be used.
I don't actually have a problem with people eating horse meat (I couldn't myself) but the manner the horses are handled prior to slaughter concerns me far more.
Far better to perhaps be semi aware they were dying than travel for many miles hungry and thirsty en route.
 
I am a little confused by the OP saying that the animal is alive before it is slaughtered, aren't they all?
As someone who eats meat, then I have no problem with an animal being humanely slaughtered. I have seen horses killed (at home as a result of injury, illness or old age) by both the captive bolt and free bullet. On all occasions it has been quick and efficient and will always be my choice, for my animals.
I will not be signing the petition.
 
There was a thread here a couple of weeks ago about peoples' experiences of having horses PTS by different methods.
As far as I could tell, the most consistently humane, error-free procedures were (1) having the horse killed by the knackerman, at home, with a captive bolt and (2) having the horse shot at home by the huntsman. Not everyone had a good experience of injections – it was apparently hard for vets to calculate the right amount, and horses often survived it.
 
Over2You said:
Alec (and every other pro-slaughter member here),

Just what possesses you to be on a forum which is meant for people with a love of horses. If your horse (if you have one) were to need a way out of life, then would you be perfectly happy with him/her going to the slaughterhouse?
Click to expand...

OK, so because I want my horse/s shot and given to the hunt when its their time then that means I don't love it? I would also not have a problem with them going to the slaughterhouse though admit I'd rather have them die at home but that's more because of me rather than the horse.

I have HUGE issues with the fact that the US banned horse slaughter as there will ALWAYS be a need for it, end of. I would much rather horses were slaughtered close to home with a little stress as possible and in a country with good standards/preocedures, than loaded onto double deckers bound for countries thousands of miles away under horrific conditions. And then when they do get there there are nowhere near the same kind of standards as we have in this country. Once again the animal rights lot have actually made conditions WORSE not better through their ignorance!
 
Nom...nom...nom I love a bit of home grown horse meat. So long as the horse's are being bred, raised and shot in Australia I'm all for it, I'll have mine rare thank you very much :)
 
SusannaF said:
There was a thread here a couple of weeks ago about peoples' experiences of having horses PTS by different methods.
As far as I could tell, the most consistently humane, error-free procedures were (1) having the horse killed by the knackerman, at home, with a captive bolt and (2) having the horse shot at home by the huntsman. Not everyone had a good experience of injections – it was apparently hard for vets to calculate the right amount, and horses often survived it.
Click to expand...

Sadly a horse I know if had to be PTS last week due to a broken leg. The first injection didnt work so it had to have a second. Would have been much quicker and fairer to have shot it by someone skilled IMO.

Sorry havent read the whole thread so havent commented on the meat issue just wanted to add my experience of this.
 
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