Faecal Water Management with EMS Horse

[Myotto]

In the last couple of weeks, my EMS horse has started passing a fair bit of faecal water. His poos are variable but generally not too bad. It must be uncomfortable as he sometimes throws his back leg around while it’s coming out. He seems a bit fed up.

I do wonder if it’s partly related to not getting much ridden exercise as I have basically rested him for 4 weeks after Arthramid injections in his hock. Equally, it could have been triggered originally by the hock pain. Ive watched him on the lunge and he is improving a lot so no obvious lameness and physio said he seems ok in his body after a treatment. Our fields have been very wet lately.

He does have intermittent gut issues and I was considering getting him scanned but the treatment would be steroids and I can’t risk him having them.

His diet is very natural. He has about 5 hours a day on grass and has a mixture of dry and soaked hay when he’s in. His hard feed is Thunderbrook Ulsa X mash & Synergy and salt. He also has Thunderbrook chaff separately am and pm. I also started Gut Sponge a few days ago and have ordered some high strength Manuka honey.

Succeed formula worked well previously so I’ve taken the plunge and ordered some. I’m also thinking of cutting out the synergy and switching to Daily Essentials as linseed can be laxative.

Vet said a faecal transplant may come next.

Any similar experiences or advice?

 

[holeymoley]

There's a lady on here that's posted and kept a track of her EMS horse's FWS. I have an ems too and he seems to have it, comes and goes, there doesn't seem to be anything in particular that sets it off or anything that stops it. I've used Protexin/ Zeolite too and I don't think it's really done anything.

 

[Myotto]

There's a lady on here that's posted and kept a track of her EMS horse's FWS. I have an ems too and he seems to have it, comes and goes, there doesn't seem to be anything in particular that sets it off or anything that stops it. I've used Protexin/ Zeolite too and I don't think it's really done anything.

Does your horse become a bit subdued when they have it? That’s what upsets me the most. EMS horses are not easy to manage are they? There’s always something!

 

[meleeka]

Mine is triggered by the increase in hay. I’ve tried many supplements and feeds and the one thing that works is eating less hay. She has Haycare and Speedibeet mixed with Happy Hoof twice a day as a partial hay replacer and her hay is fine meadow hay. If her hay is course, it sets her off again.

 

[Myotto]

Mine is triggered by the increase in hay. I’ve tried many supplements and feeds and the one thing that works is eating less hay. She has Haycare and Speedibeet mixed with Happy Hoof twice a day as a partial hay replacer and her hay is fine meadow hay. If her hay is course, it sets her off again.

I think it may be similar in our case. When the hay is course he dunks it in water if it’s not soaked but if it’s softer he doesn’t bother.

 

[Highmileagecob]

That's possibly me with the Winter Faecal Water thread. My old boy is rising 29 and starting to lose teeth. Borderline EMS, always been a good doer, always hungry. Adding soaked sugar beet and chop to his diet helped a lot, as did adding in a bran mash. He can't have hay due to COPD, and haylage is bolted so quickly that he was unlikely to be chewing properly. This meant the haylage wasn't reaching the foregut in a state that the hindgut could deal with, so his gut simply expelled it. Exercise helps with EMS, as it reduces insulin levels, and keeping things low in starch and sugar means less to be converted to sugars during digestion. It's a rollercoaster at the moment with Old Dobbin. He isn't ridden any more, but is happy enough to go and play with the yearlings. I'm still trying to stabilise his diet, given his dental challenges, but as Myotto says, good days and truly awful days are evident.

 

[Myotto]

That's possibly me with the Winter Faecal Water thread. My old boy is rising 29 and starting to lose teeth. Borderline EMS, always been a good doer, always hungry. Adding soaked sugar beet and chop to his diet helped a lot, as did adding in a bran mash. He can't have hay due to COPD, and haylage is bolted so quickly that he was unlikely to be chewing properly. This meant the haylage wasn't reaching the foregut in a state that the hindgut could deal with, so his gut simply expelled it. Exercise helps with EMS, as it reduces insulin levels, and keeping things low in starch and sugar means less to be converted to sugars during digestion. It's a rollercoaster at the moment with Old Dobbin. He isn't ridden any more, but is happy enough to go and play with the yearlings. I'm still trying to stabilise his diet, given his dental challenges, but as Myotto says, good days and truly awful days are evident.

My boy is only 10. He’s a laid back chap so I expect in his earlier showjumping life he was fed heating feeds and grains to razz him up. I see so many horses that are screaming EMS but owners don’t have an awareness of the condition.

 

[MereChristmas]

I don’t know anything about EMS but my pony’s FWS was exacerbated by haylage.

 

[Mudfukkle]

My EMS had this for the first time this year. I contacted Trinity Consultants and they put her on L94 and their Gut balancer (can't remember what is was called). But within 48hrs of having the L94 her stools were fine, the faecal water had stopped. However, within 48hrs of stopping it, it came back. So I ordered some more, and this time tapered it off, still giving her the gut balancer.
I would thoroughly recommend anyone who's horse/pony is struggling with this, please contact Trinity Consultants, it worked wonders for mine, can't recommend enough. They have a web page, I think are on FB? Or you can just phone them/email them for advice.

 

[meleeka]

My EMS had this for the first time this year. I contacted Trinity Consultants and they put her on L94 and their Gut balancer (can't remember what is was called). But within 48hrs of having the L94 her stools were fine, the faecal water had stopped. However, within 48hrs of stopping it, it came back. So I ordered some more, and this time tapered it off, still giving her the gut balancer.
I would thoroughly recommend anyone who's horse/pony is struggling with this, please contact Trinity Consultants, it worked wonders for mine, can't recommend enough. They have a web page, I think are on FB? Or you can just phone them/email them for advice.

I was going to do this last year, but the waiting time for the results was so long that it would have been into Spring, when the pony doesn’t have a problem, before the results were back.

 

[Mudfukkle]

I was going to do this last year, but the waiting time for the results was so long that it would have been into Spring, when the pony doesn’t have a problem, before the results were back.

There's no results to wait for? You just ring them, explain the problem and they will advise on the product. They are very helpful.

 

[meleeka]

There's no results to wait for? You just ring them, explain the problem and they will advise on the product. They are very helpful.

Ahh sorry, I’m getting mixed up with Equibiome test!

 

[saddlesore]

Have you tried gut sponge? I’ve had the best success with that

 

[TGM]

One of ours gets FWS, tried various supplements that didn't help (including Protexin) but got given a free sample tub of Bettalife Pharmatrac Digestive Support and that sorted the problem for him.

 

[Myotto]

Have you tried gut sponge? I’ve had the best success with that

Yes, he’s been on that for about 5 days. May be making a difference but I’ve now started him on high strength Manuka honey and today will go back to Succeed which was amazing last time but very spendy!

 

[Myotto]

Now done a week on Succeed and the results are very encouraging. Hes much brighter, got a huge appetite, clean bum with no faecal water. Still a bit gassy though and a bit nippy when I try to put a lunge roller on but i guess i just need to wait for his digestive tract to properly sort itself out. Probably doesn’t help that he’s been stuck in the stable due to the gale force winds!

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

For my EMS pony, this is a PPID symptom. Clears up after an increase in prascend.

 

[Myotto]

Me again. My horse had been on Succeed and Gut Sponge for about 3 weeks and the faecal water, loose poos, hay dunking and signs of discomfort had almost totally disappeared. He was also moving much easier. However, just over a week ago, he had a wormer (Equest but not Pramox) and vaccination, plus a routine teeth rasp, in the same week. The faecal water, loose poo and hay dunking has come back. I’m hoping that it was just a temporary blip due to the disturbance from the wormer etc. Anyone else had a similar experience?

 

[holeymoley]

I've noticed my guy's isn't as nearly as bad now that he's not getting his hay soaked. This isn't a long term solution though, not soaking at the moment as he is becoming quite fussy but to honest I don't think this year's hay quality is that good.

 

[meleeka]

Yes mine reacts to anything different. I give a syringe of Protexin Quick Fix over a few days.

 

[Fransurrey]

Please try not to take this as a prophecy of doom, but metabolic syndrome is associated with a higher incidence of mesenteric lipomas, which can manifest as diarrhoea. My old boy (27) couldn't tolerate any grass at all by the end, as the inflammation caused by the spike in blood glucose aggravated what turned out to be multiple MLs found at post mortem. It's sadly not a trendy research area (I did try to get funding for research into EMS and failed). He was PPID negative, but there was a non-pituitary tumour present at post-mortem. This was his PM report (it's informal because I worked at the vet school and the feedback was unofficial - he was used to teach PMs to the students and yes, I do have a pic of my pony's spatch-cocked brain!).

If your horse is elderly, then the vet might want to consider this as a cause. In my case, the final straw was him becoming ataxic after 15 minutes on grass, but I wish I'd had him pts 6 months earlier in January, which is when he had FWS/colitis (we used steroids to clear it up followed by Biosponge).

"The main finding in this horse was a brain tumour expanding the thalamus (see the picture attached). Obviously we couldn’t do histopathology due to advanced autolysis, but regarding the location it’s likely to be an astrocytoma. This tumour was most likely the cause of the ataxia. There were also mildly enlarged mesenteric lymph nodes and several small mesenteric lipomas."

Example paper on the link between MLs and metabolic disorders:

https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1103&context=utk_compmedpubs

Not saying any/all of these cases are like mine, but don't discount it, as my vet was unaware - it was me who brought up MLs as a possibility (unaware of the link!).

 

[Myotto]

Please try not to take this as a prophecy of doom, but metabolic syndrome is associated with a higher incidence of mesenteric lipomas, which can manifest as diarrhoea. My old boy (27) couldn't tolerate any grass at all by the end, as the inflammation caused by the spike in blood glucose aggravated what turned out to be multiple MLs found at post mortem. It's sadly not a trendy research area (I did try to get funding for research into EMS and failed). He was PPID negative, but there was a non-pituitary tumour present at post-mortem. This was his PM report (it's informal because I worked at the vet school and the feedback was unofficial - he was used to teach PMs to the students and yes, I do have a pic of my pony's spatch-cocked brain!).

If your horse is elderly, then the vet might want to consider this as a cause. In my case, the final straw was him becoming ataxic after 15 minutes on grass, but I wish I'd had him pts 6 months earlier in January, which is when he had FWS/colitis (we used steroids to clear it up followed by Biosponge).

"The main finding in this horse was a brain tumour expanding the thalamus (see the picture attached). Obviously we couldn’t do histopathology due to advanced autolysis, but regarding the location it’s likely to be an astrocytoma. This tumour was most likely the cause of the ataxia. There were also mildly enlarged mesenteric lymph nodes and several small mesenteric lipomas."

Example paper on the link between MLs and metabolic disorders:

https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1103&context=utk_compmedpubs

Not saying any/all of these cases are like mine, but don't discount it, as my vet was unaware - it was me who brought up MLs as a possibility (unaware of the link!).

He’s only 10. Diarrhoea is not particularly problematic. It’s more about the faecal water. I limit his grazing to 4 hours in the morning.

 

[meleeka]

Please try not to take this as a prophecy of doom, but metabolic syndrome is associated with a higher incidence of mesenteric lipomas, which can manifest as diarrhoea. My old boy (27) couldn't tolerate any grass at all by the end, as the inflammation caused by the spike in blood glucose aggravated what turned out to be multiple MLs found at post mortem. It's sadly not a trendy research area (I did try to get funding for research into EMS and failed). He was PPID negative, but there was a non-pituitary tumour present at post-mortem. This was his PM report (it's informal because I worked at the vet school and the feedback was unofficial - he was used to teach PMs to the students and yes, I do have a pic of my pony's spatch-cocked brain!).

If your horse is elderly, then the vet might want to consider this as a cause. In my case, the final straw was him becoming ataxic after 15 minutes on grass, but I wish I'd had him pts 6 months earlier in January, which is when he had FWS/colitis (we used steroids to clear it up followed by Biosponge).

"The main finding in this horse was a brain tumour expanding the thalamus (see the picture attached). Obviously we couldn’t do histopathology due to advanced autolysis, but regarding the location it’s likely to be an astrocytoma. This tumour was most likely the cause of the ataxia. There were also mildly enlarged mesenteric lymph nodes and several small mesenteric lipomas."

Example paper on the link between MLs and metabolic disorders:

https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1103&context=utk_compmedpubs

Not saying any/all of these cases are like mine, but don't discount it, as my vet was unaware - it was me who brought up MLs as a possibility (unaware of the link!).

Would you have done anything differently if you suspected this?

 

[Fransurrey]

Would you have done anything differently if you suspected this?

Only thing I did differently was 24/7 turnout on a sparse paddock with hay all year round - not always possible in some set ups, though. You could try muzzling and putting piles of hay down (mine ate hay through the muzzle like spaghetti - he had one modified with a slightly bigger hole if I thought he needed more forage). With mine it was the changing grass that was his nemesis, so I tried to make the forage as consistent as I could (with reasonable success for 11 years!).

I wouldn't discount the steroids (if it's because of his EMS). They helped my boy no end and if your lad does have colitis (the leg throwing would make me think yes) it'll make him so much more comfortable.

 

[Myotto]

Has anyone found that their horse gets really really hungry, almost hangry, when they start to feel better after having hindgut issues?

 

[Highmileagecob]

My old boy is not as hungry now his issues are more under control, however, hunger is associated with the EMS thing. It's as though the cut off switch that says 'whoa, you have eaten enough' is not working. Slowing down his eating and preventing him from stuffing himself was a key factor in his management. After some extensive dental issues, I worked out that he wasn't chewing sufficiently to allow the hindgut to do its stuff - he was just dragging forage out of the net and swallowing as fast as he could. Switching to 75% forage replacers with one net to keep him occupied has seen a big difference, but what works for one, may not work for another.

 

[Myotto]

Has anyone found that the faecal water issue comes and goes once treatment has started. My boy has been on the Succeed program for about 6 weeks now and is improving in so many ways. He’s happier in himself, normal poos etc. However, the faecal water stops for several days but then comes back for a couple of days. It’s definitely getting less frequent and I know it takes a while but what is everyone else’s experience?

 

[Highmileagecob]

Yes. Not helped by the fact that my vet has never heard of it and thinks it is wholly dietary,

 

[Myotto]

Yes. Not helped by the fact that my vet has never heard of it and thinks it is wholly dietary,

It was my vet that initially introduced me to Succeed. Every vet ive spoken to say something like ‘it works, we don’t really know why, but it does’. It seems like every change in temperature or even moving one paddock along flares it up!