Failed vetting - what do you think????

[ILuvCowparsely]

When selling a horse regardless of the price, it is down to the vendor to show him off at his best, even lunging a few days before so on the day will go smoothly. The vendor should make sure everything goes fine for the vet whether the potential owner there or not, same like a car or box, your not going to show it covered in **** or filthy with rubbish inside are you, your clean it and make it go/ move the best like charge battery up.


Very poor show on the vendors side, very un professional of them

 

[Clodagh]

I don't see how you can't lunge a pony in a head collar, as long as you are strong enough. In a school he might try to drag you around a bit but surely once going forward you could just keep him on a circle? He must be very piggish to really not lunge in a headcollar.

 

[ycbm]

Am I the only one thinking 'a sarcoid in the ear and they didn't want to bridle it in front of a vet'?



I think you may have had a lucky escape.

 

[Dry Rot]

If the OP is set on the horse, is there any way forward with a conditional offer? Full price down but with two week's approval, so sale or return? Would that give time for further tests to be done? If the owner is injured, maybe the price and conditions of sale are negotiable. A dent on a car's wing or a few rust spots is always a bargaining point!

 

[Orca]

I don't see how you can't lunge a pony in a head collar, as long as you are strong enough. In a school he might try to drag you around a bit but surely once going forward you could just keep him on a circle? He must be very piggish to really not lunge in a headcollar.

I thought similarly but the fact that the pony could access grass makes me wonder if there was an enclosed school at all? I can and do lunge mine in a headcollar - although with her broad, short neck, she could probably get away from me if she really tried. It's the kind of neck it would be impossible to put a bend on, if she chose to set it against me! I wouldn't lunge in a headcollar in the open for that reason.

I'd be disappointed in the management of the vetting too, OP. It's the owners responsibility to ensure the pony is prepped and ready for all aspects but the vets responsibility to ensure a safe and appropriate environment. I really don't think you should have to foot the bill for other peoples ineptitude.

 

[glamourpuss]

OP for some reason the vendor did not want the vetting to continue. My gut instinct is that the lunging would show something up or that these 'warts' are more significant than you are being told.

The horse world is small, news that their pony failed a vetting due to sarcoids or lameness on a circle would soon get out & then they have a virtually unselleable pony.

I bet the next poor person that sees it will be told 'Oh you don't need to have him vetted, the time waster that pulled out of the sale had him vetted. All that it showed were these warts which aren't sarcoids' 😏

 

[Vodkagirly]

I would expect a vendor to supply someone capable of lunging /riding the horse for a vetting if they weren't doing it themselves.
Personally I would always attend as I learnt a lot watching my horses.

 

[twiggy2]

As the owner/seller of the horse presenting a horse for a vetting you make sure you know what the vet wants to see and they all in my experience want the horse lunged if it is of an appropriate age, you also make sure you have all the equipment needed including a handler /rider to handle/ride the horse.

 

[twiggy2]

I don't see how you can't lunge a pony in a head collar, as long as you are strong enough. In a school he might try to drag you around a bit but surely once going forward you could just keep him on a circle? He must be very piggish to really not lunge in a headcollar.

I have worked with a few that are angels in bridles but just burger off in a straight lie inn head collars and cavessons-I do usually get the difficult ones though.

 

[Luci07]

When on a pro yard, horses that were up for sale were checked before sale and vetting, I.e they were used to lunging on a circle, they could trot up properly and basic tests were clear. Just saved everyone a lot of time if the yard could present a horse they felt would pass a vetting and didn't cause annoyance with the horse becoming confused or stroppy.

 

[Feathered]

What an utter load of crap people post. I am the seller of this horse, the vet asked me if he lunged and I said I didn't know he hasn't done it in years, she said are you happy for him to be lunged in the halter and said I guess so, I didn't know otherwise she didn't ask me for his bridle, which she could have had if she had asked. And as for not wanting him to be bridled the potential buyer had tacked him up herself twice so that's rubbish.

It was an open space surrounded by grass she had herself let him stand eating and he hasn't had a lot of grass at home recently due to the weather conditions, he yanked back off to the grass thinking oh this is a jolly, she said I'm not here to give him a lunge lesson and that was it, she didn't ask for his bridle or she could have had it.

And she didn't end the vetting she carried on and finished it, she only had to check his eyes after that anyway.

Loads of rubbish, he's had those warts about 3yrs and they've haven't changed.

So short story she did complete the vetting and she never asked for a bridle, so people should get their facts straight before accusing people of having something to hide or lying!

She also stood there and said to me that his conformation was "perfect" and she rarely sees that. so if you want to turn that down over a wart then go ahead.

 

[Tiddlypom]

So was he recommended for purchase or not by the vet who examined him? How was the vetting completed if she didn't lunge him?

 

[Feathered]

So was he recommended for purchase or not by the vet who examined him? How was the vetting completed if she didn't lunge him?

The vet nurse who was assisting trotted around in a circle with him in hand.

When I spoke to the vet she said she does not pass or fail or recommend she just says what she finds and it is up to the buyer. I don't know if that is standard practice or not as I'm not in the habit of selling horses, I have never sold one before so excuse me for not being completely aware.

she carried on with the vetting, she completed the paperwork... She did not say anything about the lunging thing being such a big deal as the potential purchaser is making it out to be. As far as I was aware because the girl trotted round with him that was it dealt with.

When I spoke to her, she said the only things she found to flag up with him, were his mallanders and the 2 warts.

 

[Bernster]

I'm not going to comment on what was said or happened; I don't know so wouldn't want to speculate. I did want to pick up on one point though Feathered - vets do in essence pass/fail a horse for specified activities. The vetting cert will say this horse "is/is not" fit for X purposes. Can't remember the exact wording but it does effectively tell you whether the horse has passed for whatever you've said you want it to do. Important impact on insurance if you proceed to buy one that isn't passed as fit for purpose.

 

[Red-1]

I guess the lesson there is for OP to attend the vetting to ensure that everything goes to plan. The purchaser is the person commissioning the vetting, so IMO it is up to them to ensure that all is ready.

My Certs usually go something like "The horse had XYZ, which in my opinion will/ will not affect its ability for use as a ***** (hack/ eventer to intermediate/ novice dressage/ hunter etc)." Of course, even if the vet states it will not, in their opinion, affect the horse for ***** then the insurance company will still likely exclude it for future vets fees, so it would still be a valid reason not to purchase. If OP is paying for the vetting I would ask for this certificate, it is yours as you have paid for it.

The last one I had done was many miles away, and I could not be present, but I briefed the vet as to what I wanted, as well as the vendor, and was also available on the phone to be contacted during the vetting in case of anything unexpected. However, this was a professional yard, and if it were from a private owner without facilities and staff then I would have made sure I was there in person as I would perhaps not expect them to be familiar with the process. If there was not even a school at the vendor's premises, in the past I have transported the horse to an equine hospital where they have all the facilities.

It sounds like there has been some mis-communication, and the vet was probably also a bit fed up to find a horse presented with no one able to lunge. I guess the vet could also have been a bit more specific as to what they required to be shown prior to the appointment.

For me, a person trotting in hand would not replace lungeing.

It sounds like one to chalk up to experience.

 

[cronkmooar]

The vet nurse who was assisting trotted around in a circle with him in hand.
.

Presumably this was a 5 stage vetting given the cost of the animal, but I can't find if this was referred to.

If it was a 5 stage, a groom trotting the pony around in a circle does not complete the exercise phase of such a vetting.

Also, if I was selling a horse or pony I would ensure that it knew how to lunge prior to a vetting, its pretty bad form that you pitched up and told a vet that was engaged at someone elses expense that you didn't know if he lunged as he hasn't done it in years"

Frankly, on that alone you deserve to have lost the sale. I would be as cross as the OP.

OP, chalk this up to experience and walk away, you have nothing to be ashamed of .

 

[wingedhorse]

I'm not going to comment on what was said or happened; I don't know so wouldn't want to speculate. I did want to pick up on one point though Feathered - vets do in essence pass/fail a horse for specified activities. The vetting cert will say this horse "is/is not" fit for X purposes. Can't remember the exact wording but it does effectively tell you whether the horse has passed for whatever you've said you want it to do. Important impact on insurance if you proceed to buy one that isn't passed as fit for purpose.

This used to be the case, now it is less and less common.

Vets are far less willing to offer a pass or fail opinion. Or to put it in writing as black and white as that.

To many legal cases where vets have lost when issues have developed later.

 

[Feathered]

Presumably this was a 5 stage vetting given the cost of the animal, but I can't find if this was referred to.

Also, if I was selling a horse or pony I would ensure that it knew how to lunge prior to a vetting, its pretty bad form that you pitched up and told a vet that was engaged at someone elses expense that you didn't know if he lunged as he hasn't done it in years"
.

It was a 2 stage

Stupidly I did not know it would be required and haven't got the facilities at home to practise anyway, just a very boggy field, especially in the space of 2 days. Like people said if I knew it was that important I would have got them to attempt with the bridle, but she did not tell me this.

and no he was not vetted in my boggy field , before someone starts on, he was taken at my expense and the expense of my self employed parter who lost a days work to the local equine hospital, who no did not have a lunge pen

 

[wingedhorse]

It was a 2 stage

Stupidly I did not know it would be required and haven't got the facilities at home to practise anyway, just a very boggy field, especially in the space of 2 days. Like people said if I knew it was that important I would have got them to attempt with the bridle, but she did not tell me this.

and no he was not vetted in my boggy field , before someone starts on, he was taken at my expense and the expense of my self employed parter who lost a days work to the local equine hospital, who no did not have a lunge pen

To be honest the vets sound incompetent and without decent vetting facilities. The rest sounds like a series of missunderstandings. I would expect and enclosed all weather surface for a vetting at this time of year when boxing to the vets. I dont think a 2 stage has to include lunging, so probably wasnt pivotal to vetting, as can 2 stage vet 2 year olds . And I would expect a strange adult orse, not used to lunging, being lunged on grass, to be lunged in a lunge cavesson or bridle, unless owner was assertive was fine without, the vet should know better.

Not that many horses, lacking grass at this time of year, would reliably lunge on grass, in an open space in a headcollar at a strange place. Especially cobby types with food under their noses IMO.

Whole thing sounds like a series of misunderstandings. If the horse passed a two stage vetting, and the warts are the only concern, I'd get a second opinion on them and consider still buying the horse.

The vets doing the vetting sound useless.

 

[Clodagh]

I think this sounds very much as though you should be careful what you post on social media, as you never know who will read it! If it is only a 2 stage I think that sounds fine and completed, and vets do not pass or fail any more, in my experience. Also a 2 stage is just eyes and heart I believe?
I feel sorry for the seller tbh in this case.

 

[cronkmooar]

It was a 2 stage

and no he was not vetted in my boggy field , before someone starts on, he was taken at my expense and the expense of my self employed parter who lost a days work to the local equine hospital, who no did not have a lunge pen

You were selling the animal, and at your own admission you had nowhere suitable to have a vetting performed. You must have known this before the pony was viewed. I don't see how the expense you have incurred taking the pony for a vetting is relevant. You also knew the pony had not lunged in years and should have rectified this prior to the vetting.

There being no lunge pen is also irrelevant, I would expect any of my horses to lunge in a mannerly fashion either in a field or in an arena.

I am not suggesting that you are solely at fault here, if I was the OP I would also be annoyed at the vet who carried out the vetting.

However, the OP is in no way at fault here, and the decent thing to do would be to make some financial contribution to the costs incurred by her over this vetting.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Would be up to the owners to lunge and for the 5 stage to ride. The vet is just observing. If the owners can't lunge it I wouldn't expect the vet to take over and tell them to put a bridle on etc.

lol, at least one of my consultant vets did! Ruddy ID colt having his vetting pre-grading - pi**ed off and put my girl on the floor. Vet grabbed him, lunged him, and then completed the vetting (saved me having to limp around doing it - so I was well pleased!)

 

[Bernster]

This used to be the case, now it is less and less common.

Vets are far less willing to offer a pass or fail opinion. Or to put it in writing as black and white as that.

To many legal cases where vets have lost when issues have developed later.

Blimey, hadn't heard that. I get the concern about being sued etc., but it does make the vetting far less useful than it was if they won't give a view one way or another. My last vetting was this time last year and the vet did pass, same as all my prior ones (admittedly not loads but I've had a few over the years, especially with my 50-50 pass/fail record to date!) which is really what I'm looking for from a vet.

 

[Feathered]

You were selling the animal, and at your own admission you had nowhere suitable to have a vetting performed. You must have known this before the pony was viewed. I don't see how the expense you have incurred taking the pony for a vetting is relevant. You also knew the pony had not lunged in years and should have rectified this prior to the vetting.

There being no lunge pen is also irrelevant, I would expect any of my horses to lunge in a mannerly fashion either in a field or in an arena.

I pointed this out before someone jumped out and said well how can you properly vet a horse in a boggy field.

Like I said I didn't know it was integral and I didn't know he would be allowed to eat grass and then asked to lunge next to it, what would any self respecting cob do! Yes the lunging issue needs to be sorted but again as I said I can't do it in 2 days in a muddy field and I would need to get someone out to help me as I am currently incapable anyway.

 

[Pinkvboots]

It sounds like the vet doing the vetting had quite a bad attitude about lunging, okay she is not there to teach the pony to lunge but I think most horses in a strange place would try to take advantage and have a grab of grass if they could, surely a vet would just think to put a bridle on and get it done, when my horses have gone to the vet for lameness work ups the vet grooms have bridles they use for all the horses that come in I have never seen them lunge in a head collar.

to be honest I wouldn't want to lunge any strange horse in a head collar, I want it in a bridle it's just common sense really which the vet clearly didn't use in this instance.

 

[ycbm]

When I spoke to her, she said the only things she found to flag up with him, were his mallanders and the 2 warts.

In a horse of his age, those 'warts' are far more likely to be sarcoids. It would be extremely unusual for them actually to be warts, as horses don't seem to get warts other than juvenile ones which quickly disappear. We had another thread running about sarcoids recently and the consensus of opinion was that most people won't touch a horse with one in England, and the rest of us who would said they would need at least half knocked off a five grand horse. I would take a horse with a sarcoids, but not one in the ear it's far too risky a place.

I'm bemused that you had a £5000 horse for sale and could not present it with a competent handler and did not realise that a vetting would include seeing it moving, ridden or on the lunge.

But I suspect that the buyer's vet actually put her off because they were concerned about the sarcoids more than the lack of lunging. I hope you find a good home for him but you might have to drop your price.

 

[Feathered]

In a horse of his age, those 'warts' are far more likely to be sarcoids. It would be extremely unusual for them actually to be warts, as horses don't seem to get warts other than juvenile ones which quickly disappear. We had another thread running about sarcoids recently and the consensus of opinion was that most people won't touch a horse with one in England, and the rest of us who would said they would need at least half knocked off a five grand horse. I would take a horse with a sarcoids, but not one in the ear it's far too risky a place.

I'm bemused that you had a £5000 horse for sale and could not present it with a competent handler and did not realise that a vetting would include seeing it moving, ridden or on the lunge.

But I suspect that the buyer's vet actually put her off because they were concerned about the sarcoids more than the lack of lunging. I hope you find a good home for him but you might have to drop your price.

It was a 2 stage vetting, he did not require a rider, which I would have organised if he did.

Well the vet said to me she was certain they were cosmetic and nothing to be concerned about but then why would I listen to a vet over someone online who hasnt seen the horse or his warts and knows nothing really of the situation.

 

[Damnation]

You want incompetence? I can give you incompetence.

When I had my girl vetted (This is 5 and a half years ago), she was due to be Vetted on the Monday. It was a neutral vet, horse was 2 and a half hours away so I couldn't attend the vetting.

The vet forgot her stethescope. The poor Vendor who's daughter was due to ride the horse had already had to reschedule alot of things and take the morning off work only to find that the Vet had forgotten her stethescope (For a 5 stage vetting) and could not continue, and did not have time to go back and get one to perform the vetting that day! So it had to be done the next day needless to say at a discounted price.

OP & Feathered, it sounds like you both had the perfect storm of things to go wrong. I wouldn't be blaming anyone, it happens. Chalk it up to experience.

OP if you like the horse, persue it. My mare has grass warts, she isn't headshy and they haven't changed in 5 years. A bit bolshy to lunge isn't the end of the world that can be fixed. Vetting showed a very common stage one heart murmur, goes away when exercised just at rest. Again it hasn't changed and my own vet since is unconcerned by it.

Feathered, you went by the guidance of a Vet who by the sounds of things wasn't the most helpful. I would avoid them in future, or hire a school for the vetting (include it in purchase price? I don't think arena hire is too expensive these days especially if you have to box to the vetting anyway!).

 

[FfionWinnie]

If both the seller and buyer join forces here and complain re the vetting, if warranted, then perhaps this can be worked out.

 

[Starbuck]

Unless a 2 stage vetting has changed it never included lunging. It included a check of confirmation, eyes, heart and a trot up/turn in a tight circle.

If that is still the case and a 2 stage vetting was agreed between the buyer and seller why is the seller being given hassle over the lunging aspect? Its not relevant. Did the buyer not appreciate that a 2 stage vetting would not include seeing the horse exercised?

More likely the buyer doesn't want the pony due to possible query on sarcoids/warts. In that case while its frustrating paying out for a vetting and not having a horse at the end of it, it is not the fault of the seller.

Mind you, the vet doesn't sound great.