Failed vetting - what would you do?

[Orchardbeck]

Mum's been trialling a horse for the last two weeks. He's well mannered, lovely to deal with and ride, well schooled, hacks out alone etc. Is a tiny bit sticky to load, but not a massive problem that can't be dealt with. She took him to her usual riding instructor for a lesson last night, he was good, instructor seemed happy enough with them.

Had him vetted this morning, 2 star only. He passed on everything apart from a flexion test on his off hind, where he trotted off lame.

The vet suspects the lameness may be due to spavins, going by his age. He is 16. He also has a very prominent wither, and a dipped back. He has a lot of muscle behind, with strong quarters, but is noticeably weak in front, shoulders and neck. The saddle he is on trial with doesn't fit him (a thorowgood cob?!) and the vet agrees with me, that he will prove tricky to fit.

He is TB x connemara,15.2. Mum wants to hack, school, jump a little and maybe RC, nothing strenuous like xc. What would you do? Would you take him on, knowing this? Or would you run a mile?

 

[kirstykate]

Buy him, without a doubt, he sounds perfect, if you insurance insist on him being vetted get the vet back out, as you already own the horse they arent a picky

 

[paulineh]

It would depend on how lame he was. Flexion tests can be funny things that can make a horse look lame when they are not.

Try bending your own knee for a minute then either walk or run straight away, you will see that you yourself would be lame.

 

[galaxy]

Did the vet say they thought he would be capable with possible spavins to do the work your mum wants? If the hock needs treatment is your mum able/willing to pay for it herself as because he has failed the vet that leg will be excluded.

 

[AmyMay]

Did the vet say they thought he would be capable with possible spavins to do the work your mum wants? If the hock needs treatment is your mum able/willing to pay for it herself as because he has failed the vet that leg will be excluded.

This.

And how lame exactly was he after the flexion?

For what you are paying for him (I'm assuming not very much), I'd be inclined to take a punt on him.

 

[smiffyimp]

At 16 if I had a flexion, id probably trot of lame too - I'm dubious about flexion tests at the best of times, my then 2yo trotted of stiff twice on his vetting - trust me he's not lame now nor ever has been. Sounds a nice horse. Insurance wise - don't give them them the cert so they can't exclude anything before it happens. You only need to produce a cert 5* if over 5k which I assume you aren't paying....?

 

[el_Snowflakes]

No I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Sorry

 

[Merrymoles]

If it were me, I'd risk it for a horse that's perfect in every other respect. I'm not sure you can expect many 16-year-olds to get through a flexion test unscathed and, as other posters have said, I've seen horses fail them that have never before or since been lame. I guess it depends on price too - if he comes at a good price and leaves you some change you can always stick it away in case he does come lame at some point in the future.

 

[MagicMelon]

How lame was he? If only a tiny bit like 1 or 2 / 10 then I wouldn't worry much. All vets do flexion tests a bit differently and get different results. Ive had a horse I was selling get failed on the flexion test (1/10 and 2/10 lameness on back legs) and when I got my own vet out literally an hour later, he passed not problem! Flexion test results IMO should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[cyberhorse]

I don't really trust flexion testing given you often get a different result from day to day on the same horse. I have also seen those pass go lame within a year with serious problems and horses that failed on flexions at 10yrs and under being fine competing BSJA into their twenties. It may be an indication of an underlying problem, however it may not be anything of significance. I personally would work the horse as hard as you will be working him while on trial and see how he stands up to it. It does seem that in every other respect he is fine. I would not worry too much about the saddle it may just require a highish withered saddle make and then something simple like a gel riser at the back.

 

[L&M]

I doubt my 16 yr old would pass a flexion test either!

I would be more concerned over his dipped back and muscle loss. What did the vet put that down too? My 16yr old shows no signs of ageing other than a few white hairs appearing on his face, and wouldn't expect him to start dipping until his early 20's, but appreciate every horse is different.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Is the vet also a qualified saddle fitter?

 

[cronkmooar]

I have had exactly the same this week - a four year old fail with bog spavin

The way I look at is there are lots of horses out there for sale at the moment yes it might take a bit of time to find another one that is as perfect a match, but, it costs just as much to keep a horse that you can ride and have fun with as it does to keep one that is knackered.

If you were not looking for the opinon of a vet you would not have had it vetted.

Personally I would leave it where it is but if you really don't want to do that at 16 take a punt on seeing if you can get it on loan so you can return it if necessary

 

[SNORKEY]

My horse was at the vets all day yesterday as he's had on and off lameness in a hind foot for a few months, he scored 1/10 lameness on a flextion

 

[TicTac]

if he's what your mum wants and is not too expensive I would go for it. At his age his he bound to have some small issues. It may mean he might need a but a day every now and again but older horses do have their uses.

If your mum doesn't buy him somebody else probably will. It's always a gamble.

 

[SNORKEY]

My horse was at the vets all day yesterday as he's had on and off lameness in a hind foot for a few months, he scored 1/10 lameness on a flextion test and his X-rays were fine, so no idea what's wrong there, It can be hard to tell without further investigation. Is he expensive? If she really likes him then I'd get the vet to have another look and see what you can do about the saddle.

 

[muckypony]

I would say go for it, I'm sure your mum has already made her mind up on him really, regardless of the vetting!

Like others have said, flexions aren't that reliable... And as he's 16, you could almost expect it

Good luck

 

[boxcarhorse]

Flexion tests are quite controversial - not all vets carry them out. If he ticks all the boxes and the vet thinks he will be capable of the job you have in mind for the horse I'd go for it and buy him.

 

[Renvers]

If it were me, I'd risk it for a horse that's perfect in every other respect. I'm not sure you can expect many 16-year-olds to get through a flexion test unscathed and, as other posters have said, I've seen horses fail them that have never before or since been lame. I guess it depends on price too - if he comes at a good price and leaves you some change you can always stick it away in case he does come lame at some point in the future.

This ^^ a vetting is a standard set of exams but a 16 year old who had led a full and active life and didn't have a slight issue must be as rare as hens teeth.

Does the vet think the horse is suitable for your mum's intended use, despite the failed flexion test? If horse is perfect in character, abilities, price and your mum likes him surely that is more important.

 

[eggs]

The flexion test wouldn't worry me. Trouble fitting a saddle would concern me a bit more.

I have every faith in my vet and have in the past asked her opinion on whether I should still consider buying a horse that had 'issues' on vetting. In one case she advised me not to touch him with a bargepole. In another case her advice was that as he was exactly what I wanted I should go ahead. When buying a horse for my novice husband she found so much wrong with a horse that he was only really worth meat money but also commented that it was a very genuine horse who would suit my husband. We had him for 10 years before his arthritis caught up with him and he was pts. I would speak to your vet to see what they would suggest.

 

[mcnaughty]

Could you ask the vet if xrays would confirm suspicions? My vet has mobile kit and it only costs around £25 per print.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

As most insurance companies won't insure veterans for illness, the cert is a moot point. I can't imagine many 16 yr olds would 'pass' a flexion test. If your mum likes him after the trial, I'd buy him.

 

[Louby]

I would say go for it too
My horse as a rising 4 yr old failed miseably on a left fore flexion, as in hobbling. We walked away, Seller wasnt bothered, he wasnt for sale when I viewed, I was looking at something else. Anyway to cut a long story short, I went back and bought him a few weeks later and now at 13 he hasnt had a days lameness on that leg (touch wood).
My vet who reflexioned him much later and he passed, said flexion test are so contraversial, that anyone can lame a horse by holdong the joint slightly wrong and that its like asking you to sit on your leg til it went numb and asking you to run straight away.
Good luck

 

[Orchardbeck]

Thank you all so much for your responses. Mum has to really make up her mind today. I'm not sure that she'll buy him, judging from what she was saying last night.

I'm quite gutted actually, I really like him and I think I would give him a go seeing as he is so perfect in other ways, and I totally agree that flexion tests are unfair, but the vet seems to have somehow swayed mum's opinion, along with the superficial fact that he is grey... No matter how much I stress to her that colour is the last thing she should worry about.

 

[Jools1234]

whilst i agree flexion test can not always be relied on to give true picture of the horses soundness/lameness a word of warning;

last year my boss had a 14.2 vetted for her daughter it failed on the flexion test but they really liked the pony, after discussion with the insurance company they said 'have it re-vetted if it passes and you have the lower limbs xrayed and all is fine we will discount the first vetting and insure him as normal, this to me indicates that insurance companies recognise the flexion test has its limits too.
he passed the second vetting BUT on the xrays a chip of bone was found floating in the fetlock joint, the value of the pony went from 12k to £800 in seconds insurance company would not touch him owner could not sell him without disclosing findings of previous vettings so we had him on loan every one was happy

but i would never take on something that fails a vetting if you do what is the point in having them vetted? saying that i buy cheap and young so don't have them vetted trust my instincts-not that its always right (wish it was)

 

[rockysmum]

It doesn't sound as though the horse has had any problems, or the owner would not have allowed a trial and vetting.

If he is otherwise perfect it might be worth the xrays so you know exactly what you are dealing with. You will soon spend the cost of them trailing around trying to find something else.

The high withers and dippy back wouldn't worry me. My oldie has both and always has had. He has never had a problem and is still rideable (and nuts) at 36. I will admit he has always been a problem to fit saddles, a fairly straight cut with cut back head and a good saddle fitter to alter the stuffing should sort that out.

 

[sleepykitten]

A horse rarely "fails" a vetting, the vet just points out areas that may be of concern. My mare had flexion tests the last time my vet came to see her. She trotted out completely sound. She has been off for 2 years with a suspensory ligament injury!! If she had been being vetted, she would have passed.

A vetting only reports on the horse based on how he is on the day. You could get the vet back tomorrow and the horse may be fine. Personally, if the horse is fine in every other way and as others have said, if he will do the job required, if he ticks all other boxes and isn't costing you a fortune, I would snap him up!! Besides, you might be able to negotiate the price a bit more

 

[sarahann1]

No I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Sorry

Same, I've got a lame old man who is breaking my heart after taking him on at 15 knowing he had recurrent problems. I knew him very well and was really attached to him so i bought him. Anything which i didnt have a bond with and showed up lame would be a big no for me I'm afraid.

 

[Goldenstar]

Flexion tests work 100% every time ,they show pain in a joint.
The difficulty is in interpertating what the reaction means.
I have bought two flexion test failures both where older and both on investigation had spavins they both did good work for us both had Danilon in later in life both had their working life's ended by a completly different injury although with one it was likely it was linked to the spavin
I would be more worriedby the lack of muscle and the dipped back, getting that right in the older horse IMO is much more difficult than managing spavins.
However the price must be right and you must be prepared for it to cost your mum money to keep him going .
There are many ways of approaching spavin management you need to discuss this with the vet but all benefit from lots of turnout being kept an the lean side and having regular work and they must be well shod.
With my horses their spavins never really progressed while they where with us.
I would say if he really suits her go for it .

 

[Orchardbeck]

My own mare is 22 and has suspected spavins (we thought it was fetlock issues at first and had her xrayed, scanned etc but nothing to see). She also has had saddle fitting problems due too her losing weight after laminitis, and not being worked during and after my pregnancy. We gave up with the examinations in the end after pedal xrays for rotation, and gave her danilon for a few weeks.

My mare is now on full turnout, is sound, and floaty trots around the field all the time. She gets a scoop of devils claw daily in her feed, and we think we may have found a saddle to fit that she likes.

I think mum is using my issues as a reference point unfortu ately, even though we seem to have come through the other side. I would have him like a shot.