Fainting Pony

[Flash_28]

Hello

I have a 19 yr old NF pony who has always had trouble keeping her weight down. She has had shown signs of Laminitis before but after being kept in for a few days was fine again. A few weeks ago she was diagnosed with Laminitis for the 1st time and has been on Bute ever since. It has been reduced and she has one a day (half sachet in morning and half at night) and has been improving daily. She has also lost approx 50kgs so far. She is still on box rest at the moment so is having 2 haynets a day (small haynets) and is on a diet of speedibeet and healthy hooves. Again she only gets a small amount. She has been improving so much but then today she appeared to "faint" on the yard. Luckily she didnt hurt herself. She has done this 3 times before. The 1st time I wasn't there but another woman at the yard was who thought she has a fit. The vet was called out that morning and I was told she was fine and that he thought it was as her stable door was too high and she was cutting off the blood supply to her head causing her to faint. The 2nd time approx a year later she was beginning to get pottery on her feet so she was put back onto box rest and lunging in the school. It was a really hot day and I was washing her down to cool her off. When I went to sponge behind her ears she put her head up in the air and in her eyes she looked really scared. She then started to go very stiff and then just fell on the floor. As soon as she hit the floor she "came round" and immedietly tried to get up. After standing up again she was a little dazed but otherwise fine. Again I got the vet out and they linked it to potential Laminitis. A few days after this the 3rd collapse happened in her stable. I walked away from her stable door to go get her feed and heard her neigh. But she then took a few steps back from the door and she went stiff again and fell to the floor. Again straight after she was fine and carried on as normal. Then came the 4th collapse today. She recovered almost immedietly and freaked out I put her in her stable (rubber matted) and some hay to keep her happy. I have been trying to look on the net as to what this could be. Don't think it is Cushings as she doesn't have a lot of the symptoms, although she does have the fatty "goggly" eyes. Otherwise as the weight is coming off and the Lami is getting better she is becoming more alert, more cheeky and naughty normal self. Has anyone ever heard of this before as none of the vets are helping! I have had 3 different vets look at her now and am no closer to being told what this is! The only link I can think of is that this always seems to occur when she is put on a diet (obv changed slowly) and always seems to be around this time of year. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

How fast did she lose 50kg Flash? Horses can develop severe liver problems if starved. And on the liver front - is there any chance that before you had her she could have been neglected to the point where she may have eaten ragwort? I only ask because what you describe isn't fainting. It sounds like some sort of neurological problem and ragwort poisoning can cause that. It does sound serious and if it was me I'd be getting a referral to a specialist horse hospital so you can clear this up for once and for all, or at least know what you are dealing with and how to help your ponio.

 

[Flash_28]

Since she has been on box rest she has lost approx 50kgs. She was extremely overweight before going onto box rest because she was kicked out of her stable due to other people at the yard forcing her to stay out 24 hours a day. Her muzzle had cut into her jaw so didnt want to put it back on her. Whn she was struck down with Lami I managed to fight to get her a stable. She was then moved a week later. She has been on box rest now for 5-6 weeks and her weight has been moinitored fot that time too. She hasn't been on grass since she was struck down with it. But she is having 2 haynets a day with a breakfast and dinner of speedibeet and healthy hooves. She also gets a snackaball of high fibre pony nuts (Lami approved ones).

I have had her since she was a yearling and she has never had the chance to eat ragwort as I have always been very vigilent to check the fields for it. Its just I have had 3 different vets now telling me 3 different things. After a scan on the net people have been linking it to low blood sugars and a few other things. I was wondering if it could be due to the fact that she is on a diet and has been everytime this has happened which has lead to the problem.

 

[Llwyncwn]

I agree with BoF that this sounds like a neurological problem. Do you know if she has ever had a hard fall where she may have knocked her neck or head?

My Sec A is having neuro problems too and our equine vet clinic have recommended I try to capture the 'turns' on video so they can send it off to a top neuro surgeon for advice. Even though my vets have witnessed one of her 'turns', they have never seen anything like it.

Gigglepig (forum member) has a horse who has regular seizures and she would be my first port of call, I would PM her for her opinion.

Do let us know how you get on, there is little known about neurological problems in horses.

 

[TGM]

Have the vets ruled out narcolepsy - there is an article about it here:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/3095/equine-narcolepsy

and I noticed some of the reported triggers are stroking or grooming the head/neck and bathing the animal, which ties in with one of your pony's 'fainting' scenarios.

 

[TayloredEq]

Can you describe what she looks like just prior to the 'fainting'.

I had a horse with narcolepsy and some of what you are saying sounds familiar. I owned my horse for 4 years before we realised what the problem was.

Does she lie down in the box normally?

Horses with narcolepsy are best managed when living out. For some there is a trigger which sets them off. My boy would have 12 - 15 cataplexic attacks a night and would fully collapse to the ground about once a week.

Diagnosis can be done with an injection but there are risks of colic involved. With my boy I recorded him on the CCTV and was able to show my vet the condensed footage.

 

[bailey14]

There are articles on narcolepsy on this forum, in particular links to video's of horses fainting which I put on the forum. These horses had narcolepsy.

 

[Flash_28]

Not to my knowledge has she ever had a hard fall or knocked her head. The only time she has hit her head was when she very 1st fainted. I have had her since she was a yearling so know whats she's been up to and all that sort of thing.

But her turns are so rare that I dont think I would be able to catch one on camera. This is the only turn she has had this year, the year before that (at about the same time of year) she had 2 within a couple of weeks and then the year before that it was just one (the very 1st one). They all seem to happen at the same time of the year and when her diet is restricted. The only other thing I can think of is that her head has been high when she has taken a turn. You can see when she is about to go as in a few seconds before but other than that you don't know. Thank you for the reference to get more info.

Flash

 

[Flash_28]

None of the vets have even said it could be Narcolepsy.

1st vet said it was were her stable door is too high (she's 11.2) and she made herself black out where she was trying to see over at feed time.

2nd vet linked it the Lami and where she has been put onto a diet and was a very hot day. The 3rd vet also suggested that the Lami and diet could be linked in.

But I have read the link you enclosed. When she has fainted (only 1 of these I have witnessed from start to end) her head went up in the air as high as she could go to get away from the sponge as I was trying to sponge behind her ears. Her eyes looked really scared and showed the white of the eyes and she just got really stiff all over and just topple over sideways. As soon as she hit the floor she laid there for less than a second all stiff and then seemed to click back and got herself up and was a little quiet and dazzed but within minutes was back to her original self. The actual turn itself is less than 10 seconds and this has only happened 4 times in the 18 almost 19 years I've had her so it's quite difficult to find a trigger. The only links are for all of them she has been on box rest due to her weight and going a bit pottery, she's been on a diet, been on abnormally hot days, her head has been up high. Sorry to witter!

Flash

 

[Flash_28]

I had just described it but copied it for you so you don't have to search for it!

When she has fainted (only 1 of these I have witnessed from start to end) her head went up in the air as high as she could go to get away from the sponge as I was trying to sponge behind her ears. Her eyes looked really scared and showed the white of the eyes and she just got really stiff all over and just toppled over sideways. As soon as she hit the floor she laid there for less than a second all stiff and then seemed to click back and got herself up and was a little quiet and dazed but within minutes was back to her original self. The actual turn itself is less than 10 seconds and this has only happened 4 times in the 18 almost 19 years I've had her so it's quite difficult to find a trigger. The only links are for all of them she has been on box rest due to her weight and going a bit pottery, she's been on a diet, been on abnormally hot days, her head has been up high.

But yes she does lie down in the box. She doesn't normally lie down during the day only sometimes but she is always either covered in poop or wee the next morning, which would indicate that she has been lying down.

 

[Flash_28]

Sorry I have been trying to find the post with the video but have been unable to find it. At work trying to sneek a peek!

 

[fatpiggy]

Hi Flash_28. One of the ways vets test for neuro problems is to push the horse's head up high. This can trigger a seizure. Alternatively, what you could be seeing is your pony raising its own head as a result of the seizure. My mare twists her head and neck up and around to her left flank at the start of a seizure - she can't help it, it is just what her brain tells her muscles to do. I do think your pony is having a seizure. PM me and we'll talk some more.

 

[Flash_28]

PM sent. Although I did forget to mention that she can have her head up high and not have a problem for 95% of the time and nothing untoward happen. She currently has a tall stable door again while a smaller one is being made for her. But when she fainted yesterday she was actually tied up on the yard and my mum went to move her to sweep around her and she took a turn.

 

[foolsgold]

Hello there, you could google 'vaso-vagal syncope'. It pretty much means fainting. My friends pony suffered bouts of this on and off and had identical symptoms to the ones you describe. He saw many different vets who all had different ideas but agreed that "horses don't faint" until he helpfully fainted onto a vet who took the problem seriously! The research our vet undertook suggested its a problem caused by a nutritional deficiency (in B's case it was copper) so you could ask for a blood test perhaps?

 

[Flash_28]

Hello

Yes I have read articles about this since her last turn (yesterday) and it seems to fit more in keeping with how she is. I am going to request for a blood test to be taken as on another forum a horse was fainting due to a mineral deficiency or low blood sugar or something similar as she is on a diet and only seems to happen when she is on a diet I would like to rule that out before anything else. Thank you for the advice.

 

[bailey14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sThUgIYNezw

There are many others on you tube if you put in narcolepsy in equine

 

[Flash_28]

Hello

Thank you for replying. I managed to watch a few of the videos while at work today and I do not think that she has nacrolepsy as this is not how she falls. She falls more like in the links below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGz97dxGHV8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_3Utmj4RPU&feature=fvw

Ok I know they are goats but she has the stiff legs like that and then comes round as quick as that too.

 

[Nudibranch]

I had an ex-racer and it was never accurately decided whether it was vaso-vagal syncope (fainting) or narcolepsy. There is no exact set of symptoms for either but hers sounds very similar to yours. She would either fall flat or do a half-rear then pass out, hit the floor sideways on and then come round within a few seconds and scramble up. Once she went down a second time and was a bit more dazed. Doing up the girth could trigger it, or not... it appeared to be fairly random. I think she did it a lot without us realising as she way always covered in little grazes and nicks, even with a rug on.

Basically the only way to find out for sure was to send her up to Edinburgh for testing but it wouldn't have actually made a difference to her care or treatment which it was. She was 13 but showing arthritic changes so she was retired and lived out to avoid hitting her head in the stable. Unfortunately with yours being a lami this might not be an option.

Also, the vet (an equine specialist) said it was a lot commoner than you might imagine.

 

[Flash_28]

Thank you for your reply. I am getting the vet out to do some blood tests as on my search I have seen other horses have a vitamin deficiancy that caused the turns. As she is on a diet I would like to be able to rule this out. Then I will see where we go from there really. None of the vets I have had out have said it could be narcolepsy or vaso-vagal syncope. 2 of the vets just linked it to her Lami. It is suprising how common it actually is really! When I get to a forum like this quite a few people have come forward and spoken about their own experiences.