Fairfax low wither GP (LGW) or Kent and Masters original flat back (MGU) or Kent and Masters S series GP low wither

[PONYPC]

Hello, finally have two saddles in sight, I am waiting on a few Saddlers, but idealy I would like to have one whom has both the Farirfax and K+M in stock to try and have fitted. I have a short flat back low wither Connemara and feel I will need to buy new as although there are plenty of second hand ones out there, but I am unsure of which fit would be best. I think the S series is suited more to the petite rider, so not sutable for me and the difference in price between the other two is @ £900 new, which is a lot as I do not really compete, although do some cross country and I guess you pay for what you get. In the case of saddles new is usually almost double the price. Just wondered does anyone use the Fairfax standard GP with R bar on a flat back low withered horse please? The LGW are so new I have not seen any reviews or information on them and they rarely come up seconhand either. thanks for any reviews.

 

[Elno]

Hello, finally have two saddles in sight, I am waiting on a few Saddlers, but idealy I would like to have one whom has both the Farirfax and K+M in stock to try and have fitted. I have a short flat back low wither Connemara and feel I will need to buy new as although there are plenty of second hand ones out there, but I am unsure of which fit would be best. I think the S series is suited more to the petite rider, so not sutable for me and the difference in price between the other two is @ £900 new, which is a lot as I do not really compete, although do some cross country and I guess you pay for what you get. In the case of saddles new is usually almost double the price. Just wondered does anyone use the Fairfax standard GP with R bar on a flat back low withered horse please? The LGW are so new I have not seen any reviews or information on them and they rarely come up seconhand either. thanks for any reviews.

I asked a similar question about the Thorowgood cob gp vs the Thorowgood low wither gp a while back, and since they are the same models but leather in K&M I thought I would answer

I tried both models in the end and also the K&M cob. The difference I found was that the low wither gp seems to be more suited for a more slender built horse with a low wither rather than a table top cob-esque back since the panels are more angled in the low wither gp than the cob version which are flat to suit a cobby back.

In the end none of the saddles fitted my horse, and I also found the K&M to be of rather poor leather quality and not worth the money. My horse now has an Albion SLK which fits like it was made for her

 

[PONYPC]

I asked a similar question about the Thorowgood cob gp vs the Thorowgood low wither gp a while back, and since they are the same models but leather in K&M I thought I would answer

I tried both models in the end and also the K&M cob. The difference I found was that the low wither gp seems to be more suited for a more slender built horse with a low wither rather than a table top cob-esque back since the panels are more angled in the low wither gp than the cob version which are flat to suit a cobby back.

In the end none of the saddles fitted my horse, and I also found the K&M to be of rather poor leather quality and not worth the money. My horse now has an Albion SLK which fits like it was made for her

Wow, thank you, this is really helpfull, i was kind of fixed on the low wither but will look at the K+M cob, the Fairfax is the same maker but better quality leather so may see if there is an equivilent one, although their standard GP has teh R bar which is less suited.

 

[sbloom]

I would say something with a wooden tree designed for the neat, flat back of the Connie would be better, all day long.

 

[Fire sign]

I would say something with a wooden tree designed for the neat, flat back of the Connie would be better, all day long.

How would we know which saddles have wooden trees though ?

 

[sbloom]

How would we know which saddles have wooden trees though ?

Most saddles that do not have a changeable headplate, otherwise you'll need to ask/read around. A changeable headplate means a plastic tree by definition.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Most adjustable gullet saddles don't tend to fit the back shape your horse has, i have an Arab that is the same I tried a few and found they just didn't work.

I use Lavinia Mitchell saddles on both my Arab's now bur have previously had, black country, Ideal and Heritage which all worked on the flat back flat wither one.

I have found some saddle fitters just don't understand the wider type of horse so finding someone that understands them is key, over the years I have educated myself so I know what fits and what doesn't.

 

[tehyalani1]

Most adjustable gullet saddles don't tend to fit the back shape your horse has, i have an Arab that is the same I tried a few and found they just didn't work.

I use Lavinia Mitchell saddles on both my Arab's now bur have previously had, black country, Ideal and Heritage which all worked on the flat back flat wither one.

I have found some saddle fitters just don't understand the wider type of horse so finding someone that understands them is key, over the years I have educated myself so I know what fits and what doesn't.

Hello I currently have a very hard to fit Arab, can we ask which bc and ideal and heritage saddles you had that worked? Thanks in advance x

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Hello I currently have a very hard to fit Arab, can we ask which bc and ideal and heritage saddles you had that worked? Thanks in advance x

I had a really old Black country working hunter saddle I don't know the model as it was old but alot of them work with wide types, my saddler told me to look for a freedom tree but I just couldn't find one second hand.

I had a Heritage show saddle with the long flap which I bought from them as an ex demo, Matt altered it from wither tracings and pictures that I sent him and it was a lovely saddle, I just didn't get on with it and as I was not really showing anymore I sold it.

I use Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles on both my Arab's now and love them, Arabi had muscle wastage from too narrow saddles and I was too novice to realise, Lavinia fitted his saddle with a shim numnah and he was like a different horse with the saddle so I ordered a new one, that was nearly 11 years ago now and was the best thing I did for him.

Louis had slipping issues with most of the saddles I had for him and I ended up buying a second hand Lavinia Mitchell Dressage one for him as well and have no slipping issues with it at all.

I think you need to find a fitter that understands the wider not so straight forward horse I struggled for years but eventually found one, I did really try educate myself on saddles and how they fitted and now I have a really good idea of what works.

Where are you? I might know someone who could help.

 

[PONYPC]

I had a really old Black country working hunter saddle I don't know the model as it was old but alot of them work with wide types, my saddler told me to look for a freedom tree but I just couldn't find one second hand.

I had a Heritage show saddle with the long flap which I bought from them as an ex demo, Matt altered it from wither tracings and pictures that I sent him and it was a lovely saddle, I just didn't get on with it and as I was not really showing anymore I sold it.

I use Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles on both my Arab's now and love them, Arabi had muscle wastage from too narrow saddles and I was too novice to realise, Lavinia fitted his saddle with a shim numnah and he was like a different horse with the saddle so I ordered a new one, that was nearly 11 years ago now and was the best thing I did for him.

Louis had slipping issues with most of the saddles I had for him and I ended up buying a second hand Lavinia Mitchell Dressage one for him as well and have no slipping issues with it at all.

I think you need to find a fitter that understands the wider not so straight forward horse I struggled for years but eventually found one, I did really try educate myself on saddles and how they fitted and now I have a really good idea of what works.

Where are you? I might know someone who could help.

Thank you, i have a Saddler coming in a weeks time as I had to originally cancel, as my horse had a swollen check ligament, they seem quite confident they have a large selection. People have complained about K+M quality, but my daughter had one for her Pony and we have been very happy with it. I just fancied a Fairfax as it's one up on the quality scale, although the same maker, but I guess there are older saddles than the current LGW ones, like the MGU, I guess the companies bring out new ones and give them slightly different names.

 

[tehyalani1]

I had a really old Black country working hunter saddle I don't know the model as it was old but alot of them work with wide types, my saddler told me to look for a freedom tree but I just couldn't find one second hand.

I had a Heritage show saddle with the long flap which I bought from them as an ex demo, Matt altered it from wither tracings and pictures that I sent him and it was a lovely saddle, I just didn't get on with it and as I was not really showing anymore I sold it.

I use Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles on both my Arab's now and love them, Arabi had muscle wastage from too narrow saddles and I was too novice to realise, Lavinia fitted his saddle with a shim numnah and he was like a different horse with the saddle so I ordered a new one, that was nearly 11 years ago now and was the best thing I did for him.

Louis had slipping issues with most of the saddles I had for him and I ended up buying a second hand Lavinia Mitchell Dressage one for him as well and have no slipping issues with it at all.

I think you need to find a fitter that understands the wider not so straight forward horse I struggled for years but eventually found one, I did really try educate myself on saddles and how they fitted and now I have a really good idea of what works.

Where are you? I might know someone who could help.

I had a really old Black country working hunter saddle I don't know the model as it was old but alot of them work with wide types, my saddler told me to look for a freedom tree but I just couldn't find one second hand.

I had a Heritage show saddle with the long flap which I bought from them as an ex demo, Matt altered it from wither tracings and pictures that I sent him and it was a lovely saddle, I just didn't get on with it and as I was not really showing anymore I sold it.

I use Lavinia Mitchell Dressage saddles on both my Arab's now and love them, Arabi had muscle wastage from too narrow saddles and I was too novice to realise, Lavinia fitted his saddle with a shim numnah and he was like a different horse with the saddle so I ordered a new one, that was nearly 11 years ago now and was the best thing I did for him.

Louis had slipping issues with most of the saddles I had for him and I ended up buying a second hand Lavinia Mitchell Dressage one for him as well and have no slipping issues with it at all.

I think you need to find a fitter that understands the wider not so straight forward horse I struggled for years but eventually found one, I did really try educate myself on saddles and how they fitted and now I have a really good idea of what works.

Where are you? I might know someone who could help.

Thank you for your reply, I am Sudbury, one of the issues I have is that I ride shorter so I can’t have a dressage saddle, the bc grafter seems ok for her but I found it really uncomfortable and then the Albion k2 cc semi works as well but neither are perfect, I just wanted to explore any other options x

 

[Jellymoon]

We’ve had a fair few connemaras over the years for the kids and still have one here, I haven’t found any of the changeable gullet ones fit them, and I haven’t liked any of them to ride in. Very annoying as the concept would be good, esp for young ones changing shape.

I can’t tell you exactly which models we’ve had, but Albion/Prestige/Ideal/Black Country have all worked, but the best by far was an AH (jump saddle on their sport tree I think?) I found second hand on FB from a guy down south selling them (was ages ago, can’t remember the name sorry)

There is a FB page - second hand native and cob saddles for wider horses that I’ve bought from and I’ve sort of learnt myself just through trial and error. One thing I have found is they really object the most is the saddle is too long. I’ve never been able to have a 17inch on any of the connies, even the 15hh overheight one. Makes them buck! I can squeeze into a 16/16.5 though so we are fine.

 

[cauda equina]

Thank you for your reply, I am Sudbury, one of the issues I have is that I ride shorter so I can’t have a dressage saddle, the bc grafter seems ok for her but I found it really uncomfortable and then the Albion k2 cc semi works as well but neither are perfect, I just wanted to explore any other options x

Mill Saddlery fitted my wide short backed Arab with a K&M PC Long Leg which is still working for us 5 years and 3 gullet bars later

 

[tehyalani1]

We’ve had a fair few connemaras over the years for the kids and still have one here, I haven’t found any of the changeable gullet ones fit them, and I haven’t liked any of them to ride in. Very annoying as the concept would be good, esp for young ones changing shape.

I can’t tell you exactly which models we’ve had, but Albion/Prestige/Ideal/Black Country have all worked, but the best by far was an AH (jump saddle on their sport tree I think?) I found second hand on FB from a guy down south selling them (was ages ago, can’t remember the name sorry)

There is a FB page - second hand native and cob saddles for wider horses that I’ve bought from and I’ve sort of learnt myself just through trial and error. One thing I have found is they really object the most is the saddle is too long. I’ve never been able to have a 17inch on any of the connies, even the 15hh overheight one. Makes them buck! I can squeeze into a 16/16.5 though so we are fine.

Thank you for the info x

 

[sbloom]

Yes it's a group I help run https://www.facebook.com/groups/1641386762817197

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thank you, i have a Saddler coming in a weeks time as I had to originally cancel, as my horse had a swollen check ligament, they seem quite confident they have a large selection. People have complained about K+M quality, but my daughter had one for her Pony and we have been very happy with it. I just fancied a Fairfax as it's one up on the quality scale, although the same maker, but I guess there are older saddles than the current LGW ones, like the MGU, I guess the companies bring out new ones and give them slightly different names.

I think the KM saddles are not for everyone I've ridden in 2 and felt far away from the horses back and perched, but I know lots of people that really like them and if they fit that's fine.

Fairfax I literally don't have any experience of but they just look narrow in twist and at the front compared to saddles that I know work for mine.

Ideal do a adjustable gullet saddle now never seen one but they might be better for the wider flat horse.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thank you for your reply, I am Sudbury, one of the issues I have is that I ride shorter so I can’t have a dressage saddle, the bc grafter seems ok for her but I found it really uncomfortable and then the Albion k2 cc semi works as well but neither are perfect, I just wanted to explore any other options x

I don't know anyone there sorry, a show saddle might work for you as people ride shorter with those but it depends what you do with your horse, if your jumping might be worth going down that route.

I just found with my Arab's the straighter cut at the front type saddles worked better for mine and I actually prefer a dressage saddle.

Maybe look at the AH saddles sbloom on here fits the range and have a look at the Facebook page lots of second hand saddles fir wide horses on there.

 

[Jellymoon]

Yes it's a group I help run https://www.facebook.com/groups/1641386762817197

thats the one! have bought a few off there, diff makes, really good. thats where i found the AH saddle too, and then i got the guy i bought it from (he was a fitter himself) to have a look remotely and it worked well on several connies. sadly, I had to let it go with one we sold as it was the only saddle he ever liked and i didnt want his new owners having issues.
Would def have another AH as was also nice to ride in.

 

[Elno]

Thank you, i have a Saddler coming in a weeks time as I had to originally cancel, as my horse had a swollen check ligament, they seem quite confident they have a large selection. People have complained about K+M quality, but my daughter had one for her Pony and we have been very happy with it. I just fancied a Fairfax as it's one up on the quality scale, although the same maker, but I guess there are older saddles than the current LGW ones, like the MGU, I guess the companies bring out new ones and give them slightly different names.

Several months later I know, and you've probably already found a saddle, but I thought I would chip in again since my horse is now in K&M cob instead of the Albion.
The saddlefitter I had out recently for a check up didn't think the K&M was a perfect fit (it was not BAD by any means, just not perfect) and the Albion that she thought was perfect my horse started to severely react to. My best (not a saddlefitter by any means, so I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong here) is that the Albion has pretty long tree points compared to the Thorowgood/K&M and even though it's a LH version of the SLK it still doesn't suit my horse who barely has a wither and a very broad wellsprung ribcage and broad back. That or maybe the fact that she doesn't like dressage girths, or perhaps a combination of both.

She is now in a K&M cob with the white (xw) gullet (also have a Thorowgood T4 as a back up) and the reaction to the saddle is completely gone and my horse is a different animal when ridden.

Do I like the K&M/Thorowgood cob? It's kind of 'meh' actually. It's not bad, it's not uncomfortable, the horse LOVES it, but I've had better saddles and the Albion for me was far superior in quality and feeling, but in the end it's the horse that decides. Not me, and not the saddlefitter.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Kent and Masters leather is crap, mines less than a year and all along the seat the leather has worn. K&M said they would replace the seat if I sent it back but haven’t had chance.

 

[Elno]

Kent and Masters leather is crap, mines less than a year and all along the seat the leather has worn. K&M said they would replace the seat if I sent it back but haven’t had chance.

Yup. Totally agree, it's vile. Especially when you compare it to the likes of Albion, or even better Antares