Fallen off again - what to do?

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spider

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After falling off hacking two weeks ago when he spun round as cantering through woods, its happened again. Again no obvious cause for spooking. On Sunday rode for about an hour through woods in walk and trot. Abit nappy and slow really. Came to open field, a bit foggy but could see path fine. We always gallop there but he wasnt overexcited, walked and trotted nicely and then let him go. Just about to start pulling up when he jumped sideways and I went straight on. Landed on my shoulder which really hurt, bruised my ribs and broke the peak of my hat. Worst bit I was miles from anywhere and couldn't get back on as couldn't move my arm. Thought I might meet a dog walker but no one. So walked for an hour to get back to yard. No one even said "are you ok?" when I came in leading him and covered in mud! Like I always lead him about like that!

Anyway to get to the point, I've worked really hard on him over the last three years and he's a nice little all rounder but I do like hacking and don't really have anyone to hack with. I can't keep falling off, I'm getting too old, and it's destroying my confidence. Do I....
1) Stick to hacking in walk
2) Move to a yard with more winter turn out.
3)Sell him and get an elderly or broken hack and give up any other activities.
4)Move and sell in the Spring.

Basically he is very backward thinking and nappy, and doesn't spook at obvious things such as 6ft blow up snowmen. It can take a great effort to keep him moving but then he can instantly switch to being silly. Doesn't get much hard feed. I am not a good rider. Can't think of anything else relevant. Grateful for any suggestions. Sorry its so long. Maybe I should give up riding and get a goldfish.
 
Am I right in thinking he's a Welsh D? This is exactly why I gave up on natives (my D is out on loan now) and got a WB!!
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Have you tried any form of calmers? I had my D on Topspec calmer because he can be v sharp, spooky and nappy. I think the loaners still have him on it. It takes the edge of him so he behaves a bit more rationally but without making him into a donkey.

Is there no one at all you can hack with?
 
Why not stick to walk and trot, and just a steady canter? The faster you go, the less control you have. I never let my horse really go because his adrenalin gets pumping and then he is worse after than before and more prone to spooking. He can't help spooking, he is self-appointed herd leader at home and he is always on the lookout for danger, so I am also really careful where I canter - never anywhere new, and never where there might be hidden horse-horrors. Although having said that, the last time I came off ona hack I was only trotting...!
 
3 possible reasons come to mind...

1, Because he can! He has found a brilliant way of evading work... dump the rider and the hack turns in to a plod home... nice one!

2, Because he is evading pain. If he dumps the rider, the pain ceaces. Check saddle, back and teeth. In the winter saddle fit can be a problem because of differences in feed, exercise and weight gain/loss.

3, Because he is being fed exciting feed, and not getting enough turnout / exercise. Even seemingly small quantities of hard feed can cause excitability. Very few horses need anything other than forrage and a feed balancer. You could try cutting down on sugar, starch and cerials, lunging before riding and giving max exercise and turnout.

Another thing that helps nappy horses is always hacking a circular route, ie, you don't have to turn round to go home.

If you are more confident in walk and trot, stick to that, there is no point in wrecing your confidence.

Before doing anything rash like selling the horse, I would look honestly at the situation, would another horse behave any differently in the circumstances?
Believe me, I have horses that would have killed me if they were not exercised hard daily and given 12 hours turnout!
 
I also would say part of your problem is that you say "we always gallop there". Don't get him into a routine of always doing the same thing at the same place or he will just bugger off! Make him walk that route the next time so he learns to listen to you more and not make up his own mind.
 
I can completly sympathise - I wish I could give you a big hug. However, don't dispair. I think because of your fright you are being a bit premature. You WILL be able to hack him in the future, you just need to get to the root of this behaviour

!st things 1st - he does need to get his back, teeth, saddle fit etc checked. He may need a vets reccommendation for these possibly. Nappyness could be due to a tight saddle or sore back which might make him reluctant to move forward - my horse always got nappy when his saddle felt tight when he was putting on weight having been far too skinny.

Once all physical things are ruled out then I think you need to be very firm with him on the ground and under saddle. No more Mr nice guy. He should be taught to be sharp off the leg and obedient. Ask for something and expect it instantly and lots of reward for the right response. Once he is more obedient in the school then hack him out. If you just want to hack in walk then just do that - no shame in it at all. You will know yourself when your confidence is back and you feel ready to trot or canter. Also could someone accompany you on foot or perhaps on a bicycle nntil you are more confident. And don't forget a neckstrap to help you hang on!

Hope some of this helps. Can sympathise as have a 17hh baby with a massive shy that is very spooky to hack out! If we can get there so can you
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Firstly have you had your shoulder checked out? It sounds like you might have sprained (?) it. Im not a doc but have had the same. You may need physio.

I have a similar horse and tbh I rarely canter her out as I dont want to walk home!

If you want to carry on I'd invest in a good body protector for now. I know this isnt going to solve the problems you are having and agree with previous poster who said about checking possibilities of pain etc but it does help! It gives you a bit of confidence if you know what I mean. Especially at "our age"! I dont bounce nowadays!
 
I have the worlds most unbombproof cob, can spook and spin, be going forwards with the handbrake on 1 second and full gallop in the opposite direction the next, so I sympathise ! I came close to selling him, but he is such a cheeky character, I sent him to a "horse whisperer" waste of money, they thought he was sweet and I was a madwoman !

The answer for us has been an australian stock saddle, its hard to believe but I can't rave about how brilliant it is enough. My cob still does all his tricks, but I am so secure in the saddle that it doesn't bother me, so I am calmer and that has made him calmer, also if he does have one of his "moments" I am not scrabbling about trying to stay on so I can respond and get control of him immediately. And yes you can jump in it !
 
You know reading your post I got to the bit where it said "very backward thinking an nappy" and realised he sounded just like a horse I owned years ago. the bu**er would spook every single day at the same places and I became pretty expert at sticking on after I bought a deep seated dressage saddle.
I don't actually think that would help much in your case, this horse has a good line in ditching you and I don't think you're enjoying riding him that much either.
When I look back I wish I'd bitten the bullet and sold the flipping thing and not struggled for so long. There are some smashing horses out there, and the best fun I had hacking was on our Welsh Cob, who is now retired aged 25. He was fabulous fun, you could gallop, walk, gallop again etc and always knew he was trustworthy, I broke him in myself so he never aquired any bad habits.
Think really hard about how much pleasure and pain this horse is giving you; next time it won't be your hat you break it may be yourself, and is that worth the risk?
I would start riding more defensively too, don't gallop again, always sit into your canter so that at least you are secure if he tries to spin. I don't think you need an elderly horse at all, just one that doesn't have that mind set.
As for great effort to keep him moving well it shouldn't be! get some spurs and poke him if he's idle, it's all part of the napping thing refusing to go from less leg.
They don't sound very nice at your yard either if they weren't concerned when you fell off. perhaps move, stick to gentle hacking and try a calmer to see if that helps, then sell in spring..
 
Many sympathies - there is some fantastic advice above. I know what it's like to be worried and I do understand totally. I think the dressage saddle/stock saddle is a fantastic idea
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. And by the way - Naf Magic calmer is brilliant, as is Naf Tempralax. I KNOW this from personal experience
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Keep going.
 

People at your yard sound like pratts, very rude not asking if you were allright.

I fully sypathise, my Pony can tend to do the same as your animal, it took me three years to gallop mine and I still only do when I feel he is being sensible.

First off if you havent got a body protector with shoulder pads, get one, no matter what horse your riding.

Also do what everyone else above has said regarding tack teeth back ect.

I got a treeless saddle, because apart from it being really comfy using a traditional type made me feel perched on top rather than in with him, the stock saddle mentioned above sounds a good idea, if you look at a treeless make sure you get one with Knee rolls, mine hasn't and takes getting used to without, but riding without has improved my seat.

I use the Magnesium calmer before riding on club rides to take the silliness out of him when in company, goes in his breakfast about 1.5 hours before ride, might be worth trying.
 
You poor thing. I would certainly echo a lot of the sentiments. Certainly get a body protector that you can move comforatbly in & insist on sitting in a saddle when you try it on to make sure it is comfortable - they are great for confidence. Then go out & hack & just walk for a few weeks - so what! Start & enjoy yourself again. Get him used to the idea that we don't always do this in this spot. I had a youngster who got very nappy when i made the mistake of cantering in the same spot. i was lucky I had a friend with a nice calm horse who came out with me a few times & we walked up the hill. Yes she napped a bit & tried to go, but didn't want to leave her friend & a neck strap to hold on to helps too! I have used "Steady up" by Feedmark on a mix of horses to great effect. Good luck & unless there are other reasons don't give up yet.
 
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I also would say part of your problem is that you say "we always gallop there". Don't get him into a routine of always doing the same thing at the same place or he will just bugger off! Make him walk that route the next time so he learns to listen to you more and not make up his own mind.

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This is exactly what I was going to say!! Great minds....
 
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Anyway to get to the point, I've worked really hard on him over the last three years and he's a nice little all rounder but I do like hacking and don't really have anyone to hack with. I can't keep falling off, I'm getting too old, and it's destroying my confidence. Do I....
...

Basically he is very backward thinking and nappy, and doesn't spook at obvious things such as 6ft blow up snowmen. It can take a great effort to keep him moving but then he can instantly switch to being silly. Doesn't get much hard feed. I am not a good rider. Can't think of anything else relevant. Grateful for any suggestions. Sorry its so long. Maybe I should give up riding and get a goldfish.

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TBH, I don't know WHY people persevere with horses that keep putting them on the ground! Once - maybe, twice - if he's got a good excuse - only more often if you've got a death wish!

This horse needs POSITIVE riding and it's very hard to be positive when you're just waiting for the ground to come up and meet you! EITHER you need to have a concentrated period of lessons with a good instructor and develop your balance and seat to the point where you CAN stay on and KNOW you can stay on (whether with the help of an Australian stock saddle or whatever) or you need to sell him and buy a well-mannered horse you can ENJOY!

Horse needs re-schooling - by a sensible, positive rider who will get him going forward properly, NO hard feed - and a lot more work and turn-out. But the fact is that even if HE is improved, he may not go better for you unless YOU improve - in both stickability and confidence.
 
Sorry to hear you've hurt yourself, thats always a bummer! Sometimes there really is nothing you can do and its time to call it a day, its a hobby after all, but I don't think thats true yet in your case. As others have said for hacking get a good thick neckstrap and a saddle with a deep, secure seat and good grip. You also say you are not a good rider. You are probably being too hard on yourself but if there is room for improvement (and there is for just about everybody!) get some lunge lessons in the school. Riding without stirrups and, if you can bear to, bareback in a safe environment will do wonders for your balance in a tight situation. Riding with no saddle for a while makes you feel like you could stay on a bucking bull once you get it back! Also be more positive. Keep in mind you feed him, make sure he's healthy and meet all his needs its time he earnt it. TAKE NO SH*T!!
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I think what it comes back to is whether or not you have the confidence and experience to reschool him and really get tough on him, or you dont.

Theres nothing wrong with not having this. If you're riding purely for fun and all you want to be able to do is hack out without all this stress then personally, id sell him on and look for something else.

If you do believe you're capable of reschooling then id take things back to the schooling arena for now.. work on both your position and his manners there. Someone else mentioned lunge lessons or stirrupless riding for you to help your position, both of which would be good. Get him working off your leg, get him really responsive, dont let him nap in the school at all and work him hard.

Once you're back in full control there and hes done a couple of weeks of hard work, id take him on a hack AFTER schooling and, as someone else mentioned again, try and keep to circular routes where you arent turning round and heading for home. Dont have a spot where you canter, a spot where you trot etc

I have to ask though, if hacking is your main thing, wouldnt you be better at a yard with friends to hack with?
 
a good calmer, body protector and having a horse that can spin like this the absolute best thing for me was lots of schooling without stirrups. had a couple of lessons on something else then rode mine without.improved my seat no end, increased my confidence and although mine only does it once in a blue moon-I can sit it now
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Lots of good advice there. I would stop the "bit of hard feed" immediately.

The schooling/different saddle/body protector/lessons are all good, if you want to keep the horse.
Do you really want to perserve with this horse that keeps getting you off?

We can all forgive the occasional spook, buck, etc. even if we fall off, but there is a difference between an odd fall and being thrown off a naughty horse that is misbehaving because it knows it can.
There are many reasons why a horse misbehaves, and pain and ill fitting tack is one reason, but even so, there are NAUGHTY horses too who seem to have a sense of humour. Having ruled out all the obviously reasons, it might just be that this particular horse is not the right one for you.
 
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Am I right in thinking he's a Welsh D? This is exactly why I gave up on natives (my D is out on loan now) and got a WB!!
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Most natives are very sensible! My Welsh D can be a bit sharp, not terribly sensible etc. but he's also the safest horse I've ever had! Love 'em! But you do have to work very hard at getting them "on side" and develop an understanding relationship with them for them to work for you and not against you!
 
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Am I right in thinking he's a Welsh D? This is exactly why I gave up on natives (my D is out on loan now) and got a WB!!
smirk.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Most natives are very sensible! My Welsh D can be a bit sharp, not terribly sensible etc. but he's also the safest horse I've ever had! Love 'em! But you do have to work very hard at getting them "on side" and develop an understanding relationship with them for them to work for you and not against you!

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I am going to resist the urge to rise to that and post a reply along the lines of "are you suggesting I made no attempt to get him on side and gave up at the first hurdle?"....
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Thanks everyone for the sympathy and sound advice. It is great to have people's feedback as my family aren't horsey. I do actually like to hack on my own most of the time - can chose my own pace and alone with my own thoughts. I did have a couple of people I used to hack out with sometimes which was nice but they moved away. I do wear a body protector hacking, and although I may have said always gallop, I do walk across this field sometimes as well! He also knows how to behave in the school. I found the comments about dumping me on purpose interesting. I hadn't really thought of that, but I can see that it was rewarding for him as he got some nice grass to eat while I recovered! I can sit a spin a walk and trot and can mostly prevent him going round but haven't got quick enough reaction times in canter. In fact he's never tried at canter before these two incidents. The person who said going forward with the brakes on - on a bad day that's just him - I have to be really careful not to be in front of the movement. Teeth have been done - probably wouldn't hurt to have saddle checked again. My instinct says not pain related as he is pretty tolerant. I once rode for an hour with the saddle flap tucked under with no reaction from him! (not on purpose of course)
And yes CC you're right he is a section D. I don't know about on side but I have to be really positive to get him to do things, if I'm feeling under the weather he just takes advantage.
I am feeling that I'm not getting a lot of fun for the effort and money at the moment, but my reservation about selling is that I know his background from 3 years old and I worry that I might end up with worse problems.
Think I'll cut the food right back, go get a balancer and some calmer tomorrow and start looking for somewhere with more turnout. Then I should know what I want to do before the spring which is a better selling time. Sorry for the essay. Leftover mince pies to anyone who reached the end!
 
I really think turnout might help you hugely. Don't know how restricted you are but even though I wrote about my old gelding's nonsense he was much better with turnout.

best of luck
 
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