false advertising on a loan..

gingerlegs

gingerlegs

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I used to be on here but lost my login details, I know you are a knowledgable bunch and thought you may be able to help!

I dont want to go in to too much detail of who did what but the basics are -
Horse taken on loan in Dec
Horse was advertised as ready to affiliate BS/BE
Horse had been out on loan for previous year
Owner at uni so didn't have time for her
Horse viewed in freezing conditions, school was frozen so could only walk and small amount of trot
Based on the advert and owners account of the horse, I agreed to loan.
Made the presumuption that due to the short viewing and with it being a loan if she wasnt going to be right then she could go back.
No statement of termination for the loaner in the contract, does not state that could or could not be terminated by me (should have checked this better I know!)
The horse had a very backwards temperment
The horses schooling was noticably improved while with me but the horse clearly lacked the scope and will for affiliated competition.
Stabled with my BS Coach who saw horse from start to finish and aggreed the horse was not suitable for the purpose it was acquired for, despite several conversations with the owner where I insisted I was only interested in a horse for affiliated competition.
The horse also turned out to have a nasty habit which landed me on the deck with an injury which kept me off work unpaid.
Horse was returned to the owner beginning of March
The owner is now taking me to court for breach of contract, returning the horse before the end of contract.

I can try to give more info if its needed but I generally want to know if there is such thing as false advertising of a loan horse.
I am not looking to claim as i'm not that petty and was putting the situation down to experience and have now found the horse I wanted all along but I would like to use this as my defence for terminating the contract early.

I cant afford to hire a solicitor but will be getting one of those small fee for an hours discussion slots in, I just want to have some background before I go so I can get as much out of the session as possible!
Thanks in advance :-)
 
Are you a BHS member? I think you can get free legal advice thro them.

I have loaned twice and in both cases I gave 30 days notice to the owner to return the horse. I would have thought that would be standard.

I guess you should have read the contract.
 
I'd have thought the same rules apply, does the contract state what you're planning to use the horse for?
Rather than an hour with a solicitor maybe join the BHS (£60) and then you have access to their legal helpline for a whole year!
What are they suing you for? (livery costs for 9 months?) have you had letter from their solicitors? I'd be supprised if it was worth it for them so it may be an empty threat!
 
In the contract does it say what the horse is on loan for? I'd say the fact that he is falsly advertised, and that your coach has said he isn't suitable should keep you out of court. When is the contract supposed to finish? Was there nothing in the contract to enable her to terminate it either?
 
Gosh this is just so typical of loan situations and ends up giving such arrangements a bad name. If the horse wasn't suitable for you you should have been able to give her back (with suitable notice ie 30 days). What sort of contract did you sign?
 
Thank you for your replies! Not a BHS member but I have just realised I think the BSJA offer a legal advice line so may give them a call!
Contract was for a year so until Dec 2013.
I gave a full months notice for the return of the horse, the owner did request I kept the horse until at least June and just competed below 80cm classes unaff.
Contract allows the owner to terminate
 
They are trying to sue for sales livery costs as the owner had no where to put the horse on her return. She is requesting I pay this until the horse is sold. At £170 per week which is more than I pay per month!
 
Ridiculous!
I really can't she how the owner can take you to court over this.

If you had no contract how can you have sent horse back early?
Even if you did have a contract there is aways a get out clause. Usually a month either way.

Id either ignore them or write a nasty letter, maybe get legal help.
 
Has the owner actually presented you with court papers? From experience but not horsey related people threaten court all day lon but when it comes to it they meet go through.

Firstly it'll be civil so you don't need a solicitor and she can't charge you her court fees.

Secondly what is she actually taking you to court for to claim? Assuming its for a financial claim, what is she actually claiming??

Personally if I was you I'd speak to citizens advice and get their guidance but you have made a verbal contract with the owner anyway which specified points that she failed to meet so turn the situation back on her and threaten her with court action.

Ultimately I cannot see her going through with it to be honest because I can't see what she can be trying to claim?! And she has mis-sold (although not literally).

Don't worry about it :) until you get a court warning in the post forget about it and if it does arrive then take all documents etc as proof and speak to your solicitor who should offer a set amount of time for free legal advice.
 
It has so far gone through her writing to me stating claim for sales livery expenses as she could not personally take the horse back which is £170 per week, so yes its a financial claim for breach of contract. I have responded with my statement which I said basically false advertising. She has now come back and said that if I am not willing to compensate her then she will start court procedings in 10days.
I dont know if she will go ahead but I am happy that she wont get too far with her claim!
 
Ah I see, all I can advise is -

Speak to citizens advice and a solicitor, they'll offer you some good advice. Your entitled to free legal advice.

Document absolutely everything, no matter how small it seems.

Statement any witnesses, be specific and don't speculate but ensure they support your argument. Any pro's (vets etc...) would be great.

Don't worry over it until the letter lands at your door :)

I've been threatened with legal action and was physically sick and so stressed out, but it never even came through. I learnt a hell of a lot from it ha!

Make sure you write down each point to the verbal contract, ie what you wanted horse for etc...

I cannot see why she'd take you to court for such a small amount though.

One thing about small claims is that, you can represent yourself and I believe solicitors aren't allowed. She cannot charge you her court fees and vice versa. Have a look on google for some guidance as I found it very helpful when I thought I was going.

Don't worry, you'll be fine and just think evidence, evidence and more evidence ;) but don't stress over it until you have it in writing, if it actually arrives.
 
Thank you, sounds like i'm already going in the right direction with a some of the witness statements also have the original advert and messages through preloved in the early stages.
Very useful advice :-)
 
gingerlegs said:
Thank you for your replies! Not a BHS member but I have just realised I think the BSJA offer a legal advice line so may give them a call!
Contract was for a year so until Dec 2013.
I gave a full months notice for the return of the horse, the owner did request I kept the horse until at least June and just competed below 80cm classes unaff.
Contract allows the owner to terminate
Click to expand...

The contract was for a competition horse, but you were then asked to compete unaff below 80cm?? Looks like admission to me that the horse wasn't up to the purpose you loaned it for.

What notice period did the owner get to terminate? In the absence of a stated period for you, I'd argue it has to be the same on both sides.
 
Thank you, Cant quote on my phone but I quite agree Theocat with her admitting the horse was not suitable for affiliated competition. This is the route i'm hoping to persue!
The owner got a full months notice of termination.
 
Sounds like they wanted the horse schooled for a year. I'd let them see how far they can get seeing as you have the original ad (copy this if not already done) and statements
 
WelshD said:
Sounds like they wanted the horse schooled for a year. I'd let them see how far they can get seeing as you have the original ad (copy this if not already done) and statements
Click to expand...

This is exactly how it appears to be and yes I have paper copies of the original ad which repeatedly states she is an affilated horse!
 
Good grief - they haven't got a leg to stand on!
It would cost them even more money to go through a small claims court and the court would probably throw it out!
Just a load of hot air.

No need for you hire a solicitor. You can reply with your defence to such a ridiculous claim in writing yourself.
When you respond tell them they have 7 days to issue proceedings against you or jog on (nicely of course ;) )
 
Not a pleasant situation to be in...but I should imagine she'd be laughed out of court, if it ever even got there.

Was a termination notice time period stipulated in the contract? There should be one for both sides of the party.
 
What a joke, you have plenty of evidence by the sounds of it, from the first messages you exchanged about it being a competition horse, then your trainer saying it isn't, and her saying to do unaff under 80cm. You gave her notice anyway, she hasn't got a leg to stand on and is trying to get money out of you because she couldn't school her own horse to sell, and since she couldn't get you to do it can't afford sales livery, call her bluff!
 
Thank you guys, this was my thoughts exactly!

I just don't have the best luck in the world so wanted to be prepared for this to go the whole way. Very re-assuring :)

Just such an annoyance that my last loan horse I had for 4years until he was unfortunately PTS and I am still in full contact with the owner and never had any problems... bit of a shock to then go through this!
 
When you get the court documents, it gives you the option to counter claim. It is quite an easy process and you will both have a chance to reach an agreement before getting to a 'judge'. If you can't agree a way forward then you will go into a room with the judge, they will put forward their argument, then you will. The judge will decide then. I think if you lose, you will have a CCJ against you ..... I'm not overly sure as when I counter claimed, the decision went in my favour.
Good luck.
 
I think I would be tempted to threaten suing for all the money wasted on a horse that the owner has now admitted is not suitable for the purpose. But I can be a bit of a hot head so it might not be advisable!
 
hairycob said:
I think I would be tempted to threaten suing for all the money wasted on a horse that the owner has now admitted is not suitable for the purpose. But I can be a bit of a hot head so it might not be advisable!
Click to expand...

Trust me this did cross my mind!! but I have now found the horse I wanted all along so just wanted to move on :)
 
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