family stuck with horse with no passport , help!

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richardw

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Hi, this is a long story but please take the time to read because we dont know what to do anymore :confused:

we bought a horse for £1050 with promise of a refund if not happy, we trusted the woman and did not get a receipt. the horse turned out to be a rig and got excited at mares (even at geldings!) and became uncontrollable for my 13 yeard old friend.

so we called the lady back and she said to come over and see another horse she had, we rode her and reluctantly agree to swap with £100 more to her. but the horse we then wanted suddenly developed strangles so couldnt be moved.

so she said she had another we could loan until she got well.

she dropped off the horse and picked up the 1st horse she sold us.

but now she will not answer our calls and seems to be stalling for time and we do not want the horse she loaned us as he is lame.

we have the passport for the 1st horse, but not the lame horse we have now.

we asked for a full refund as promised but nothing, we then said we would take £600 back for closure, but again nothing.

she transports horses without passports and the passport we have for the 1st horses has things rubbed out on it and looks suspect.

please can anyone suggest what we can do? we dont think we will get our money back and suspect the second horse we saw has been sold and she is delaying to try get us to accept the horse she has given us, which we dont have a passport for and looks in the £400 region.

please help :confused:
 
Well it sounds like a dealer that's for sure - I would start with Trading Standards. Can you tell us what area in the country you bought the horse from?
 
If this woman is a dealer - which it pretty much sounds like to me - then i think yopu have a pretty good case - if she is not answering your calls but has an ansaphone facility , leave a message to her that unless she calls back by a certain time - your choice , then you'll be calling trading standards and your solicitor , she has a duty to provide you with a horse of your choice and that as the loan horse is not suitable ( and not of your choice ) she needs to give you a full refund . She is relying on her good name to buy and sell horses so a little mention of trading standards usually does the trick.
 
paddy irish said:
If this woman is a dealer - which it pretty much sounds like to me - then i think yopu have a pretty good case - if she is not answering your calls but has an ansaphone facility , leave a message to her that unless she calls back by a certain time - your choice , then you'll be calling trading standards and your solicitor , she has a duty to provide you with a horse of your choice and that as the loan horse is not suitable ( and not of your choice ) she needs to give you a full refund . She is relying on her good name to buy and sell horses so a little mention of trading standards usually does the trick.
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thanks, yes she is definitely a dealer, but advertised as a private seller on preloved. we have asked around about her and she owes money in similar situation and has not given it back. we really just want an end to it as it was alot of money for us to spend. if we threaten with trading standards and still nothing happens, what do we do with the horse we have now? sell it (although we have no passport)? take it back to her and be left with nothing? also we still have the passport from the first horse, will she simply have another one made? thanks for all the help
 
Not sure if this is any help, but I once bought a horse with no passport, and I traced him through his microchip. Any chance of seeing if he has one?? I got duplicates issued. sounds like a nightmare situation though, poor you :eek:
 
sleepykitten said:
Not sure if this is any help, but I once bought a horse with no passport, and I traced him through his microchip. Any chance of seeing if he has one?? I got duplicates issued. sounds like a nightmare situation though, poor you :eek:
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martlin said:
What is it that you want to happen? Maybe just ask her for passport for the horse you have and sell it? That would be a relatively easy option...
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the problem is we paid £1050 for a horse that she said was bombproof and a confidence giver, the horse she has loaned us is lame and spooky, sad to say i doubt we would get £300 for her :confused: yes it really is a nightmare :confused:
 
Richardw - have you run the dealer's name through Google? Sometimes some interesting stuff comes up and you might find she is known for this sort of thing.....I travelled over a hundred miles at weekend to see a horse which was advertised as a private seller - when i got there i realised straight away that she was a dealer (not the same dealer as yours) and then when I got home and googled her phone number I confirmed it as she had a number of horses for sale on different sites! I won't make that mistake of travelling first and checking later again!
 
richardw said:
thanks, yes she is definitely a dealer, but advertised as a private seller on preloved. we have asked around about her and she owes money in similar situation and has not given it back. we really just want an end to it as it was alot of money for us to spend. if we threaten with trading standards and still nothing happens, what do we do with the horse we have now? sell it (although we have no passport)? take it back to her and be left with nothing? also we still have the passport from the first horse, will she simply have another one made? thanks for all the help
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If she is advertising on preloved as a private seller , when she clearly IS a dealer , then she is de-frauding the public already , if you have a copy of the original ad for the first horse , print out if it was on-line , then take it to trading standards , she needs to take back the loan horse and give you a refund for the original horse - alternatively - if you really liked the second horse despite it having strangles , you could opt to have this back as long as she is prepared to have a vets cert saying that it is now clear of the virus...whatever you decide , act soonest , make that call to her about trading standards and go at it like a bull in a china shop , show her that you wont back down.

I think if you threaten TS she wont do ' nothing ' and trading standards are pretty good , they wont just ignore your call , they will look into it , i'm sure.
 
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richardw said:
the problem is we paid £1050 for a horse that she said was bombproof and a confidence giver, the horse she has loaned us is lame and spooky, sad to say i doubt we would get £300 for her :confused: yes it really is a nightmare :confused:
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So, what you want to happen is for her to take the horse back and give you your money? I'm afraid it will be a nightmare and it will be difficult, you might have to go through courts and even if you win the case, you might not see your money... What I'm trying to say is, first loss is the best loss :o So maybe, just maybe it would be best to cut your losses and get some money back?
Why is the horse lame? As in, what's wrong with it?
 
I think you may have some comeback with trading standards if you can prove that the horse sold was not as described. I'm by no means an expert, but I would be tempted to try them, especially if the seller was a dealer. I would get in touch sooner rather than later though, it won't hurt to ask anyway. Best of luck.
 
Holly Hocks said:
Richardw - have you run the dealer's name through Google? Sometimes some interesting stuff comes up and you might find she is known for this sort of thing.....I travelled over a hundred miles at weekend to see a horse which was advertised as a private seller - when i got there i realised straight away that she was a dealer (not the same dealer as yours) and then when I got home and googled her phone number I confirmed it as she had a number of horses for sale on different sites! I won't make that mistake of travelling first and checking later again!
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thats very useful, thank you, will try googling her name and especially her phone number and see what comes up!

paddy irish said:
If she is advertising on preloved as a private seller , when she clearly IS a dealer , then she is de-frauding the public already , if you have a copy of the original ad for the first horse , print out if it was on-line , then take it to trading standards , she needs to take back the loan horse and give you a refund for the original horse - alternatively - if you really liked the second horse despite it having strangles , you could opt to have this back as long as she is prepared to have a vets cert saying that it is now clear of the virus...whatever you decide , act soonest , make that call to her about trading standards and go at it like a bull in a china shop , show her that you wont back down.

I think if you threaten TS she wont do ' nothing ' and trading standards are pretty good , they wont just ignore your call , they will look into it , i'm sure.
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thanks paddy irish, will give it a go and see what she says, if nothing i will threaten to take it to trading standards and follow it through
 
Speak to DEFRA as she is selling without passports, and travelling without passports which is illegal, She is also trading fraudulently, so Trading standards should be involved. And if that gets you no where then I would also say she is defrauding the Tax Office as she is claiming she is a private seller when she is not so I doubt she is claiming her income.
 
richardw said:
Hi, this is a long story but please take the time to read because we dont know what to do anymore :confused:

we bought a horse for £1050 with promise of a refund if not happy, we trusted the woman and did not get a receipt. the horse turned out to be a rig and got excited at mares (even at geldings!) and became uncontrollable for my 13 yeard old friend.

so we called the lady back and she said to come over and see another horse she had, we rode her and reluctantly agree to swap with £100 more to her. but the horse we then wanted suddenly developed strangles so couldnt be moved.

so she said she had another we could loan until she got well.

she dropped off the horse and picked up the 1st horse she sold us.

but now she will not answer our calls and seems to be stalling for time and we do not want the horse she loaned us as he is lame.

we have the passport for the 1st horse, but not the lame horse we have now.

we asked for a full refund as promised but nothing, we then said we would take £600 back for closure, but again nothing.

she transports horses without passports and the passport we have for the 1st horses has things rubbed out on it and looks suspect.

please can anyone suggest what we can do? we dont think we will get our money back and suspect the second horse we saw has been sold and she is delaying to try get us to accept the horse she has given us, which we dont have a passport for and looks in the £400 region.

please help :confused:
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CONTACT A SOLICITOR.
 
vixann said:
If her initials are T K and she has a yard in ardsley and the passport you have is from the spotted horse and pony society pm me
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:eek: amazing! yes. i have PM'd you, thanks

PeterNatt said:
If you are a BHS Gold member then you can get free legal advice from their legal help line.
Alternatively contact a specialist equine solicitor.
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thanks will see what they say

Bosworth said:
Speak to DEFRA as she is selling without passports, and travelling without passports which is illegal, She is also trading fraudulently, so Trading standards should be involved. And if that gets you no where then I would also say she is defrauding the Tax Office as she is claiming she is a private seller when she is not so I doubt she is claiming her income.
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thanks do you know which department of DEFRA it would come under?
 
First stop is Trading Standards - but be aware - TS does NOT help you get your money back! But - with luck - TS WILL prosecute - so you get some satisfaction. However, if you wait while TS gets around to it - and the case is heard - you will have kept the horse for up to a year (or more) for nothing!

I would start an action against her in Small Claims Court immediately. It's simple enough to do - you don't need a solicitor (and the costs of a solicitor cannot be claimed back!) Small Claims are dealt with by a Judge sitting alone - often just the Claimant and the Defendant present.

Details about the procedure - http://www.smallclaims.me.uk/small_claims_court.html

There is a firm that helps process Small Claims - don't know anything about them but seem quite reasonable.
http://www.small-claims-court-support.co.uk/

And there's no point talking to Defra about the no passport issue - that ball also falls into TS's lap!
 
Thanks for everyone's help and advice it has definitely given us some avenues to explore :) has anyone been in a similar situation and contacted trading standards, or knows someone who did, what was the result? thanks again
 
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